Trains Arriving at Unlit Stations

[RichmondCommu]

It was very cold and there was salt and ice on the platform and when I stepped down, shocked by the darkness I slipped. Before I had recovered the train had departed and everyone else alighting had gone. Following this I had to find my way in near complete darkness to the exit, down the stairs and out along the road by myself in freezing temperatures with the aid of nothing but ambient background city light and the red signal at the end of the platform. How I am still here with just a bruise is a bit of a surprise. It's an inner suburb with the typical level of crime. Under no circumstances would I go for a winter walk in a local park by myself at 1am, which represents a similar level of risk to the situation which the train company put me in.

Just a couple of quick questions. Was the station where you alighted your home station? If not did you have friends waiting to greet you? I'm also wondering whether your mobile phone has a torch as that might have helped you navigate your way along the platform. You've said that the weather was very cold in which case were you wearing adequate clothing?

 

[PHILIPE]

There used to be stations in the Looe Branch which had no lighting at one time. The timetable showed trains not to call there morning and evening on certain dates durimg Autumn and Winter which conflicted with hours of darkness

 

[miami]

What aspects of it would you call a near miss?

It sounds like OP is asserting it was so dark there is no way for the guard (or driver) to assert that the platform was clear and nobody was in front of the yellow line.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

.... I would have thought that there would be a procedure for this kind of situation - it's not as if it's unpredictable that the last train of the night may be late. Had I fallen down the gap between the train and the platform I may very well not be typing this now.

The lights at my station are programmed to stay on a reasonable time after the last train is due, but they don't stay on all night as the company is on an energy saving quest. Should the lighting be faulty, this would be reported to the maintenance contractor as an urgent fault, but obviously someone has to notice it and report it.

Question is - does Station operator TOC know that Train operators TOC's train is running late and will therefore be calling at their station when all of the lights have gone off?...

They'll know it's late, will they know the lights are off? Will they be able to judge how late it will be when it gets to the station.

....Whenever we have a fault a message is put out on Tyrell... but whether other operators who use the station also get that same message I don't know....

Northern has given stations use of Tyrellcheck, so they can see other TOC messages, even guards have access to it.

....Alternatively motion sensors (which are increasingly common in offices and similar) which could turn the lights on if there are people moving around on the platform (so lights on all the time usually until after the last train but if it is late then the lights would be activated by the people on the platform).

Wildlife? Homeless people? Drunks who missed the last train? Leaves blowing in the wind? Plenty of things would activate the lights and NIMBYs might not appreciate that.

TPE could have simply not stopped and proceeded to the next station and got people taxis from there depending on how many people there was getting off....

Yeah that'll go down well, especially if it's a lighting fault and the passengers have a connection to make. Some places, Kingussie for example, don't have any taxis companies for miles and others, Penrith for example, have single driver firms, who probably don't do late nights.

....Or better still someone phone up Northern control and say we are late can you make sure that the lights are left on until we depart the station.
But there is to much common sense in that.
Sam

Or perhaps it's unrealistic in some cases.

My station, for example, is single manned, so either they call me up at midnight and get out of bed to turn the lights on, or they phone the local manager, who has to go to the key holding station for a set of keys, then go to my station, go into the office, get the key for the light override and then go out to turn the lights on, wait for the trains to go, turn the lights off, put the light key back, lock up the office, take the keys back to the key holding station and go home again.

And just so there is no confusion, if they get me up at midnight to do that I will not be fit for work the next day, so that's one closed office.

 

[alexl92]

This seems to me as an example of our very somebody else must be at blame society.
You fell over on ice, that could of happened day or night. The lighting makes no difference over this and if you didn't fall, you wouldn't of thought anything of it.

Alternatively, if there had been some lighting on the platform, the OP might have been able to see that there was ice on the platform and avoid it.

So actually, lighting makes all the difference.

 

[Mojo]

What is the procedure in the rule book for where station lighting is defective and ambient lighting is deemed insufficient?

 

[najaB]

But I am upset that a) there were no lighs on and b) the guard put timekeeping ahead of my safety and that of other passengers.

I sympathise with you in that situation, it's not entirely clear that the railway is entirely to blame for the lack of lighting though - the local council may share responsibility for lighting on the access road. That said, provision of a switch that allows passengers (or crew) to turn on the station lights for a few minutes is a sensible idea and you should suggest it in your email/letter.

It's not entirely clear though that timekeeping was put ahead of your safety. As was pointed out above, the guard may have been able to see that you were clear of the train platform edge in the lights from the train. It's hard to say either way.

 

[Llanigraham]

Or perhaps it's unrealistic in some cases.

My station, for example, is single manned, so either they call me up at midnight and get out of bed to turn the lights on, or they phone the local manager, who has to go to the key holding station for a set of keys, then go to my station, go into the office, get the key for the light override and then go out to turn the lights on, wait for the trains to go, turn the lights off, put the light key back, lock up the office, take the keys back to the key holding station and go home again.

And just so there is no confusion, if they get me up at midnight to do that I will not be fit for work the next day, so that's one closed office.

Quite!
And what about unmanned stations like nearly all of them around here?
Sorry, but some people here are being unrealistic. (not you)

 

[Bellbell]

It sounds like OP is asserting it was so dark there is no way for the guard (or driver) to assert that the platform was clear and nobody was in front of the yellow line.

Yes, it does sound as if the OP is suggesting that but it wasn't a near miss. Don't misunderstand me, any situation where there is a possibility that someone could be injured/killed during despatch needs investigating but I think a calmly worded complaint about the lack of lighting and subsequent poor lines of sight on the platform would trigger that, given the current focus on despatch incidents within the industry. A near miss would be getting something trapped in the doors and being lucky to be able to yank it free or similar.

As I mentioned previously though, I'd have thought that the ambient light plus the light from the train might have been sufficient to allow safe despatch but obviously I don't know either way.

I don't want to be accused of defending the industry because I work in it; on the contrary I've said twice I agree that OP should complain but in my experience the most effective complaints are those that are clear, calm and concise. Once you start sounding hysterical about the coulda/woulda/shoulda aspects it is much easier for the TOC to write back, stating for example, that as the lighting on the access road is the responsibility of the council, they regret that they cannot help further and consider the matter closed, handily ignoring the really important parts of the complaint.

 

[ainsworth74]

Quite!
And what about unmanned stations like nearly all of them around here?
Sorry, but some people here are being unrealistic. (not you)

Sounds like they'd be perfect for some of the ideas suggested by myself, Deepgreen and CharlieSpotted.

 

[Jonfun]

To be honest, I don't think it's unreasonable, if the lighting's on a timer, to have a light override switch. I know of at least one heritage railway which can override it remotely from the signalbox a few miles away. My suggestion would be a simple BR1/T key locked box on the platform near the usual dispatch position so if the Conductor gets off and sees that the platform is in darkness, they open the box and press a plunger, which turns on the platform lighting for a short period. They can then release the doors and passengers disembark safely, and there's sufficient lighting to do a safe dispatch.

 

[ainsworth74]

To be honest, I don't think it's unreasonable, if the lighting's on a timer, to have a light override switch. I know of at least one heritage railway which can override it remotely from the signalbox a few miles away. My suggestion would be a simple BR1/T key locked box on the platform near the usual dispatch position so if the Conductor gets off and sees that the platform is in darkness, they open the box and press a plunger, which turns on the platform lighting for a short period. They can then release the doors and passengers disembark safely, and there's sufficient lighting to do a safe dispatch.

Sounds good to me!

 

[cjmillsnun]

To be honest, I don't think it's unreasonable, if the lighting's on a timer, to have a light override switch. I know of at least one heritage railway which can override it remotely from the signalbox a few miles away. My suggestion would be a simple BR1/T key locked box on the platform near the usual dispatch position so if the Conductor gets off and sees that the platform is in darkness, they open the box and press a plunger, which turns on the platform lighting for a short period. They can then release the doors and passengers disembark safely, and there's sufficient lighting to do a safe dispatch.

Great idea in theory, the problem is the availability of BR1 and T keys.

 

[najaB]

Great idea in theory, the problem is the availability of BR1 and T keys.

I expect that most guards have one or the other... Or do you mean that 'youths' will get hold of them?

 

[Starmill]

I think 'youths' or others can already do much worse things (such as release the doors of a moving train) with these keys than turn on some lights, should they have acquired them.

 

[theageofthetra]

I presume this was not a DOO train? Even if it was with a guard how could they have seen that the doors were clear if the station was in complete darkness?-unless of course it was a very short train, but even then I am surprised there is not a TOC local rule on this.

 

[Starmill]

Sorry, but some people here are being unrealistic. (not you)

Of course. I'm sorry, you're absolutely right. It's 'unrealistic' to comply with the wishes of the ORR. Sure you don't work for WCRC?

I presume this was not a DOO train? Even if it was with a guard how could they have seen that the doors were clear if the station was in complete darkness?-unless of course it was a very short train, but even then I am surprised there is not a TOC local rule on this.

No it's not a DOO train and it has 4 23m coaches, as I've alluded to. I met the same guard on the same train again today. I commented that it would be good if the lights were on this time. He replied "Well, it's Northern what do you expect?" I thought that was telling. When pressed he conceded the point that it's not good enough but that there's nothing he could do and it's Northern's fault. I asked how well he could see with just the light through the train windows: "Well yeah, just about...".

 

[theageofthetra]

I am very surprised he was allowed under that TOC's rules to dispatch in those conditions. I presume this is in a very dark rural location with very little light pollution? -I drive in London and I would say 80% of what I sign is never actually dark due to the light pollution but even then I wouldn't even open the doors at a station with no or very limited lighting without a call to the signaller first.

 

[Starmill]

It's a suburban location with ambient urban light conditions, but separately to the station and access road lights it is set back a long way from the nearest source of lighting, the public highway. There's no infill from any other nearby properties, so it is as dark as it ever gets in a city.

 

[sarahj]

One of our 'in the middle of nowhere' stations, Southease. Had a fault with its lighting a few months back. Very simple, announcements, torch out and a double check for anyone that got off, or was waiting. However, it's so out the way that no one did get on and off the 3 times I was there. Was a bit creepy mind.

 

[tsr]

I must admit I am pretty surprised to hear that any conductor/guard at any TOC is permitted to dispatch before all passengers leave the platform in these circumstances. Where I work, for any station with no lighting during darkness, at any time, with any length of train, it's a well-worn, virtually unquestioned procedure that conductor dispatch is only allowed when all passengers are confirmed to have left the platform. In addition it is entirely up to the conductor whether they use porter switches to lock the doors, and/or walk down the length of the train to check nothing is trapped in the doors (indeed there are also several other occasions when you'd need to do this, including various modes of failure with onboard equipment). DOO dispatch is not usually permitted at all, thus any station in question would usually be closed. The risk is indeed with PTI - with no lighting it can be virtually impossible to see a coat/finger/bag trapped in the doors, and if anyone runs for the train and falls down the gap, you're not going to see it four coaches away in a lot of places, let alone anything longer.

You live and learn, I guess, that things such as this are acceptable to some companies not others. A delay due to waiting on the platform for it to become clear is far better in my eyes and surely almost everyone's; it means that the delay minimises the risk of any incident being made more severe by the train moving off. The consequences of someone getting dragged along a platform will result in death/injury and also subsequent major delay to even more trains anyway.

 

[TDK]

What is the procedure in the rule book for where station lighting is defective and ambient lighting is deemed insufficient?

If there is no lighting the train must remain in the platform as the lighting inside the train will assist the safe egress of the passengers, the train must remain on the platform until all passengers have vacated the platform, not word for word but along these lines. I have always done this when the station lights are out. It is a rule unless it has changed since I last read my rule book.

 

[fowler9]

It's a suburban location with ambient urban light conditions, but separately to the station and access road lights it is set back a long way from the nearest source of lighting, the public highway. There's no infill from any other nearby properties, so it is as dark as it ever gets in a city.

Have you put in a formal complaint and if so has anything changed? Sounds like a claim waiting to happen.

 

[LowLevel]

All stations have a risk assessment for no lighting. The result can be broadly grouped into 3 categories - can call but announcements should be made, can call but the crew must escort passengers off the platform, and must not call.

There's surprisingly few in the latter category where I am - about the only one that immediately comes to mind is Elton and Orston as it's in a remote area, has a barrow crossing only exit from one platform, and a long secluded approach road with a very sparse service and next to no footfall. The theory being I suspect if you hurt yourself leaving or similar it could be a while before anyone finds you.

This timer issue has much to do with saving money/the environment alas and can be a pain.

I can sympathise- I picked a lone lady up during a powercut in a less than delightful area and she was terrified.

 

[infobleep]

It should be reported and we can refuse to stop there. Some times the Signaller will ask you if you are comfortable stopping at an unlit platform and you can refuse if you believe it would not be safe. Some times you will be called up and specifically asked not to stop too.

I thought it use to be that unlit stations were not stopped at when dark, end of. Perhaps that was in the days of stations not being lit at all. This being possibly over 50 years ago. I may have read it in an old general Great Western Railway appendix.
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They were getting off the train and weren't driving said train (so no front view) so how could they see it before they arrived?



Surely not beyond the ability of man to devise a system to deal with late running trains however. Lets be honest it isn't exactly an unlikely scenario is it? One thought that occurs would be to have most lights switch off after the last train but have one or two remain on all the time. Alternatively motion sensors (which are increasingly common in offices and similar) which could turn the lights on if there are people moving around on the platform (so lights on all the time usually until after the last train but if it is late then the lights would be activated by the people on the platform).

And any animals going passed. Not to say your suggestion is a bad one, just putting one downside.

One has to weigh up the options.

One important thing though is to not have someone wonder off the platform edge. What is someone slipped and got disorientated.

One can get use to less light but coming off a bright train it will take time for ones eyes to adjust. Would you want to hanging around a station in pitch black whist your eyes adjusted.

Of course someone or company might say it's to to expensive to resolve so we will just hope for the best.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Falls of Cruachan (?) I think used to be closed after dark due to no lighting.

 

[WestRiding]

Why is the stations name top secret?

 

[Deepgreen]

Just a couple of quick questions. Was the station where you alighted your home station? If not did you have friends waiting to greet you? I'm also wondering whether your mobile phone has a torch as that might have helped you navigate your way along the platform. You've said that the weather was very cold in which case were you wearing adequate clothing?

I think the OP would have mentioned friends being there at 0100 to greet him if they had been there - and that would make more people potentially to fall over.

The OP did not mention a mobile 'phone.

How would "adequate clothing" have provided more light?

 

[ANorthernGuard]

All we do when a station is in darkness is give a warning to the passengers. There is really not else we can do (as Traincrew)

 

[Bletchleyite]

Given that solar-powered LED floodlights with light level sensors are now available very cheaply, is it time some stations had these fitted in addition to the main lighting such that you never get a completely dark station?