Scotrail Class 385 Discussion

[hexagon789]

Alex Hynes was telling the Scottish Parliament this morning that the first new windscreens will be fitted this week, after which it'll head back to Scotland for testing - presumably to check that the optical problems have been fixed. Hopefully following that it'll be swift progress.

That's actually been fairly quick, getting the new windscreens made. Perhaps a December introduction is possible then assuming everything goes well with the new 'screens.

 

[gingertom]

That's actually been fairly quick, getting the new windscreens made. Perhaps a December introduction is possible then assuming everything goes well with the new 'screens.

Here's hoping the fix is successful and training can restart.

 

[hexagon789]

Here's hoping the fix is successful and training can restart.

Very much so, it's long overdue. At least we will have the 365s to help things out a bit in the meantime.

Things are improving, some 365s are coming up here and the new windscreens are designed and just need fitted and testing. Hopefully things can only get better from here.

 

[gingertom]

Very much so, it's long overdue. At least we will have the 365s to help things out a bit in the meantime.

Things are improving, some 365s are coming up here and the new windscreens are designed and just need fitted and testing. Hopefully things can only get better from here.

It's sod's law that the windscreen fix is announced just as the 365s are about to enter service.

 

[hexagon789]

It's sod's law that the windscreen fix is announced just as the 365s are about to enter service.

Indeed, but at least they have the 365s to fall back on, and besides which the 385s new windscreens still need testing so they won't be in service a while yet and therefore the 365s will be needed.

Anyway, as myself and others have mentioned there are plenty of other potential uses for the 365s even after full 385 introduction.

 

[InOban]

Clearly the doom-mongers who expected a complete front-end redesign, followed by crash worthiness testing, would seem to be wrong, we hope...

 

[GaryMcEwan]

385s delayed until next year...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-44054334

ScotRail confirms high-speed plan delays

The head of ScotRail has admitted that improvement plans on two of Scotland's busiest routes are facing delays.

Alex Hynes told MSPs that not all trains on the main Glasgow to Edinburgh line will run in 42 minutes - as had been promised - until next year.

And he said refurbished trains between Aberdeen and Edinburgh could be introduced in July, rather than May.

Mr Hynes also accepted ScotRail's performance "could be better" after it was fined £1.6m over missed targets.

But he said ScotRail continued to have the highest customer satisfaction rating of any large operator in the UK.

Major renovation
The fine over missed targets related to areas such as station facilities and cleanliness rather than the punctuality and reliability of rail services.

Queen Street Station in Glasgow - which is managed by Abellio ScotRail - was recently named as the UK's least popular station in a national survey of passengers.

The station has been undergoing a major renovation which is not due to be completed until 2020.

A series of electrical and signalling faults in recent days have also caused disruption to some ScotRail services.

Mr Hynes, the rail operator's managing director, told MSPs that the current upgrading of Scotland's rail network was "not without challenge".

He told Holyrood's Rural Economy and Connectivity committee that ScotRail's goal was to introduce "the best railway Scotland has ever had", with new Hitachi high-speed trains due to be introduced on some routes in the coming months.

The trains will run on the electrified line between Edinburgh Waverley and Glasgow Queen Street as part of the Edinburgh Glasgow Improvement Programme (EGIP) that has promised to cut times for commuters.

The project, originally costed at £742m, has been hit by numerous delays.

Mr Hynes told the committee it will now be 2019 before all journeys on the line are cut by 10 minutes to 42 minutes, as ScotRail had promised.

He said that while the train operator would "like to deliver" that time from December, it "wouldn't be every service at 42 minutes" as they faced "issues" with the new trains.

And he admitted that the refurbishment of existing Intercity 125 trains on the east coast line between Edinburgh and Aberdeen had been a "challenge".

'Looking unlikely'
Mr Hynes said a delay in refitting the vehicles meant it was his "aspiration" that the first of the new trains would begin service in July, but he was "not in a position to give a firm date" for this.

"Originally we wanted to go above and beyond the contractual date of June to deliver something for the timetable change in May", he said.

"Sadly that is now looking unlikely but we're working to bring that first refurbished train as soon as we can."

Referring to the £1.6m of penalties that were imposed under the Service Quality Incentive Regime (Squire), Mr Hynes said the scheme was the "toughest regime anywhere across the UK".

It was because of that strict regime that "we have the highest satisfaction of any of the large operators in the UK", he added.

But Mr Hynes admitted: "It is fair to say our performance against the standards that are set out in this regime could be better, and we are working really hard to improve our performance in this area."

He said ScotRail had achieved a 70% reduction in so-called "skip-stopping" - the controversial practice of trains missing out some stops in order to improve punctuality - in the past four weeks.

And he said the introduction of the "iconic, high-speed" InterCity trains in the coming months would create a "a genuine intercity rail network for Scotland" and "transform the quality and the capacity of Scotland's railway".

 

[hexagon789]

385s delayed until next year...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-44054334

Well full introduction at least.

 

[gsnedders]

Indeed, but at least they have the 365s to fall back on, and besides which the 385s new windscreens still need testing so they won't be in service a while yet and therefore the 365s will be needed.

Anyway, as myself and others have mentioned there are plenty of other potential uses for the 365s even after full 385 introduction.

Yeah, I'm curious as to whether there'll be any appetite in paying to keep them for some of the other soon-to-be electrified routes; they're a good fit for many regional routes.

 

[Southsider]

Clearly the doom-mongers who expected a complete front-end redesign, followed by crash worthiness testing, would seem to be wrong, we hope...

For once, the answer may be in the optics!

 

[Southsider]

Yeah, I'm curious as to whether there'll be any appetite in paying to keep them for some of the other soon-to-be electrified routes; they're a good fit for many regional routes.

The costs could be offset or even negated by releasing the diesels early. I’m sure that could be negotiated with the relevant ROSCOs and receiving TOCs. Scotrail should be pushing Network Rail to finish Stirling, Dunblane, Alloa and Shotts schemes ahead of schedule as they appear to be well advanced at the moment.

 

[hexagon789]

Yeah, I'm curious as to whether there'll be any appetite in paying to keep them for some of the other soon-to-be electrified routes; they're a good fit for many regional routes.

Me also, it would be a shame to send them back South or even remove tthem from service altogether. Retaining them would give additional flexibility and the potential to introduce new services/increase frequencies.

 

[PHILIPE]

The costs could be offset or even negated by releasing the diesels early. I’m sure that could be negotiated with the relevant ROSCOs and receiving TOCs. Scotrail should be pushing Network Rail to finish Stirling, Dunblane, Alloa and Shotts schemes ahead of schedule as they appear to be well advanced at the moment.

You've missed the prime negotiator - DFT

 

[Domh245]

Well full introduction at least.

Indeed, he even states that they're hoping to get the first one into service for July.

 

[hexagon789]

Indeed, he even states that they're hoping to get the first one into service for July.

The way it's worded suggests certain services will go to 42 mins before full introduction. Perhaps the XX:00 and :30 will become dedicated EMU services while the XX:15 and :45 will remain DMU/EMU until full introduction.

 

[thetangoman]

I heard a rumour Scotrail have the 365's for 10 yrs.

 

[Altnabreac]

The way it's worded suggests certain services will go to 42 mins before full introduction. Perhaps the XX:00 and :30 will become dedicated EMU services while the XX:15 and :45 will remain DMU/EMU until full introduction.

As I understood it the 42 minute service was dependent on having the Stirling services operated by EMUs as you need them accelerating faster to avoid the faster E-G services catching up with them.

So until they have enough electric stock for both E-G and Stirling it won't be possible for all services to be sped up.

 

[hexagon789]

As I understood it the 42 minute service was dependent on having the Stirling services operated by EMUs as you need them accelerating faster to avoid the faster E-G services catching up with them.

So until they have enough electric stock for both E-G and Stirling it won't be possible for all services to be sped up.

It was just the way it was worded made me think that they planned to gradually introduce E-G services timed for 42 mins, implying (in my view) that certain services would go over to EMU timings.

I think it must be poorly worded in that case, because as you say, you need the other services on the E & G to be able to get out of the way in order for the main E-G services to be able to run to accelerated timings without catching everything up.

 

[Altnabreac]

It was just the way it was worded made me think that they planned to gradually introduce E-G services timed for 42 mins, implying (in my view) that certain services would go over to EMU timings.

I think it must be poorly worded in that case, because as you say, you need the other services on the E & G to be able to get out of the way in order for the main E-G services to be able to run to accelerated timings without catching everything up.

It may be that the timetable allows some services to be sped up but not others due to clashes? My main point was that there is more to it than just availability of electric stock for E-G. You need wires to Dunblane and Alloa and enough electric stock for those services and the new Cumbernaulds.

 

[hexagon789]

It may be that the timetable allows some services to be sped up but not others due to clashes? My main point was that there is more to it than just availability of electric stock for E-G. You need wires to Dunblane and Alloa and enough electric stock for those services and the new Cumbernaulds.

True, wiring the full lot and getting the EMUs into service is definitely more of a priority than shorter journey times right now.

 

[gingertom]

True, wiring the full lot and getting the EMUs into service is definitely more of a priority than shorter journey times right now.

the 380s in service on xx00 departures are currently working to the diesel timetable. I have used a GPS app to track the speed of a 170 vice 380 as far as Croy. On the runs that I timed the 170 was under power to beyond Lenzie, the 380 hits 100 near the Cadder passing loop and coasts the rest of the way, not being driven flat out otherwise I'd have arrived early.

 

[scotraildriver]

With the Bathgates cancelled yesterday there were a few 7/8 minute early arrivals in Edinburgh from Qn St when the 380's got a clear run. With 3 stops too. Not bad.

 

[hexagon789]

the 380s in service on xx00 departures are currently working to the diesel timetable. I have used a GPS app to track the speed of a 170 vice 380 as far as Croy. On the runs that I timed the 170 was under power to beyond Lenzie, the 380 hits 100 near the Cadder passing loop and coasts the rest of the way, not being driven flat out otherwise I'd have arrived early.

Yep, you can't really reach 100 in a 170 until just after Lenzie station. I meant that changing to EMU timings is arguably not a priority though.

The 380s, 365s and likely 385s will likely utterly blitz the 170 timings when they get the chance.

 

[gsnedders]

With the Bathgates cancelled yesterday there were a few 7/8 minute early arrivals in Edinburgh from Qn St when the 380's got a clear run. With 3 stops too. Not bad.

Jesus. That's truly impressive, given it's only from Bathgate Jn that the Bathgates have any effect (i.e., not at all at the western end), and the 334s are themselves 90mph stock. Shows the effect of congestion on the line and invariably chasing yellows, I presume.

 

[gingertom]

Jesus. That's truly impressive, given it's only from Bathgate Jn that the Bathgates have any effect (i.e., not at all at the western end), and the 334s are themselves 90mph stock. Shows the effect of congestion on the line and invariably chasing yellows, I presume.

certainly gives a flavour of what we can look forward to once all the upgrades are in place and the 385s finally enter squadron service.

 

[gsnedders]

certainly gives a flavour of what we can look forward to once all the upgrades are in place and the 385s finally enter squadron service.

If it's caused by the traffic, the 385s won't match it unless the the traffic somehow vanishes. Time to quadruple the line from Bathgate Jn? (And yes, I realise that's a wholly unrealistic suggestion. It'll happen as soon as we get 442s in Scotland. Though given we now have 365s…)

 

[Class465fan]

If it's caused by the traffic, the 385s won't match it unless the the traffic somehow vanishes. Time to quadruple the line from Bathgate Jn? (And yes, I realise that's a wholly unrealistic suggestion. It'll happen as soon as we get 442s in Scotland. Though given we now have 365s…)

Hauled by class 43s

 

[hexagon789]

If it's caused by the traffic, the 385s won't match it unless the the traffic somehow vanishes. Time to quadruple the line from Bathgate Jn? (And yes, I realise that's a wholly unrealistic suggestion. It'll happen as soon as we get 442s in Scotland. Though given we now have 365s…)

Hopefully having EMUs running everything will mean that stoppers will be able to get out of the way more readily.

 

[hexagon789]

Hauled by class 43s

Or 91s, given the electrification?

 

[scotraildriver]