Stena's late into Stranraer, but ScotRail won't wait. Can I claim a refund?

[jamesontheroad]

Hello y'all. It's a sunny Friday evening, and we're slipping out of Belfast Lough on the Stena HSS bound for Stranraer (and the wifi is free).

However, we're running about 30 minutes late, which means we'll miss the advertised 1940 Stranraer - Glasgow Central train.

I called Scotrail, who helpfully told me that they are "legally obligated" (when did "obliged" stop being a word?) to run the train on time, even if no-one's on it, yadda yadda yadda....

Unlike the hoardes of folk on this packed Friday-night boat who won't understand why, I appreciate that ScotRail have to run trains to time on the Stranraer branch because of the single track and token block signalling. Since I'm going to have to wait for the next train and arrive in Glasgow about 90 minutes later than planned, can I go to anyone for a refund? Surely ScotRail will blame Stena, and Stena won't refund a Scotrail-issued rail ticket?

Any info appreciated, thanks!

 

[John @ home]

Since I'm going to have to wait for the next train and arrive in Glasgow about 90 minutes later than planned, can I go to anyone for a refund? Surely ScotRail will blame Stena, and Stena won't refund a Scotrail-issued rail ticket?

Any info appreciated, thanks!

It would help if you could give full details of the ticket(s) you are using.

 

[jamesontheroad]

Sorry ... Anytime Return Glasgow Central - Belfast NI, issued by a Scotrail TVM.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

deleted

 

[MikeWh]

Sorry ... Anytime Return Glasgow Central - Belfast NI, issued by a Scotrail TVM.

As long as the ticket is covered by an agreed compensation plan which pays out for a delay over a certain time then you should be eligible. Your ticket entitled you to make a sea crossing followed by a train journey. Your overall arrival at your destination will be significantly later than it should be so you should be eligible. My hesitation is whether there are any clauses about the causes of delays (was the boat faulty or was the delay caused by bad weather?). Scotrail must compensate you if you are eligible and they will probably claim off Stena.

 

[RochdalePioneers]

God forbid that a boat train waits for the boat to arrive. That would be anti-competitive. Perhaps the OP can use one of the competing operator's services which inevitably sprung up when the railways were liberated by the free market?

 

[yorkie]

may as well close the line then! fsr appear to want that to happen

 

[John @ home]

Sorry ... Anytime Return Glasgow Central - Belfast NI, issued by a Scotrail TVM.

Thanks. ScotRail's Passenger Charter uses sympathetic words but does not deal specifically with the situation where the delay is caused by two factors: delay to the boat they sold you the ticket for, and further delay caused by them not providing a train to meet the boat.

When Things Go Wrong

ScotRail is constantly working to provide a quality, reliable service to all our customers. If for whatever reason we cannot meet the targets and standards we set ourselves we will do anything possible to compensate you for any disruption.

Delays

Season Ticket holder (monthly or longer) (snipped)

All other ticket holders (including Weekly Season Tickets)
If your train is delayed or cancelled and it is our fault, or that of the rail industry, we will look into each case on an individual basis.
As a rough guide, if your train is delayed for more than 30 minutes on a ScotRail service, or causes a 30 minute or more delay to your journey, you can normally expect National Rail travel vouchers to the value of 50% of that journey. If you are delayed for more than one hour, you will receive travel vouchers to the value of 100% of that leg of the journey.

http://www.scotrail.co.uk/sites/files/Scotrail Passenger Charter.web.pdf

My advice would be to make a claim as you would for a journey consisting of two train legs, and consider ScotRail's response.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

My advice would be to make a claim as you would for a journey consisting of two train legs, and consider ScotRail's response.

Yes, and please let us on here know what reply you receive.
Good luck!

 

[Old Timer]

Compensation would not be payable as the ferry does not come under those rules. The delay has ben caused to you through an outside party.
ScotRail has not failed in that the train was there at the time advertised.

 

[First class]

Tickets remain the property of the relevant Train Company. Each ticket is issued subject to:
(a) these Conditions;
(b) the applicable byelaws;
(c) the conditions which apply to Electronic Tickets, Smartcards, other
devices used for storing Electronic Tickets and certain types of reduced
and discounted fare tickets as set out in the notices and other publications
issued by the Train Companies whose trains you are entitled to use; and
(d) the conditions set out in the notices and other publications issued by
another person if the ticket enables you to use any of their goods or
services.

Stena's Conditions/Terms:

12. Delay, Consequential Loss etc.

1. Times shown in timetables, sailing plans or elsewhere are approximate and not guaranteed. They are not to be considered part of the Contract of Carriage and are subject to change without notice.

 

[TEW]

God forbid that a boat train waits for the boat to arrive. That would be anti-competitive.

Seen it happen at Holyhead.

 

[paul1609]

Hello y'all. It's a sunny Friday evening, and we're slipping out of Belfast Lough on the Stena HSS bound for Stranraer (and the wifi is free).

However, we're running about 30 minutes late, which means we'll miss the advertised 1940 Stranraer - Glasgow Central train.

I called Scotrail, who helpfully told me that they are "legally obligated" (when did "obliged" stop being a word?) to run the train on time, even if no-one's on it, yadda yadda yadda....

Unlike the hoardes of folk on this packed Friday-night boat who won't understand why, I appreciate that ScotRail have to run trains to time on the Stranraer branch because of the single track and token block signalling. Since I'm going to have to wait for the next train and arrive in Glasgow about 90 minutes later than planned, can I go to anyone for a refund? Surely ScotRail will blame Stena, and Stena won't refund a Scotrail-issued rail ticket?

Any info appreciated, thanks!

Has there been a huge upturn in rail-sail business then?
I last went on this route about 3 years ago. The train had hit a dear on the way south and a rail replacement minibus was provided.
The 16 seater left stranraer about half full.
I was under the impression citylink had 95% of the ferry business.

 

[jamesontheroad]

Well, it's no longer my problem... the HSS docked at 1937. The train departed on time at 1940, and...

...I was on it.

In the words of the only other person who made it, "I've not run that fast since school," especially through Stranraer's horrid maze of corrugated steel tunnels to the terminal, and along what seemed the entire length of Stranraer platform to the little 156 hiding at the far end.

There will, however, be very many disgruntled passengers who didn't make it. That boat was rammed with foot passengers, and I saw quite a few of them just make it onto the platform as we rolled past. In the end we had to wait an extra five minutes at Barrhill to let the southbound train past, so the train could probably have been held with no additional delay.

It will have been immensely frustrating for many of those passengers, because I knew some had onward connections to Dundee, Fife, etc which the later train simply couldn't make.

Sadly the local rail users committee (I forget their name) had volunteers on the train doing their annual summer survey. With just two connecting ferry passengers making the service, they obviously didn't get the volume of feedback they would have hoped for on what is normally such a busy Friday night train

 

[Greenback]

It seems a little bizarre that the train couldn;t have been held for a couple of minutes. Perhaps it was a breakdown in communication somewhere?

ATW often hold trains for a few minutes to await incoming London services at Swansea. They will hold for quite a while to allow connections into the night Fishguard service. Arriving in Fishguard there's a good wait anyway, so the ship would have to be really late to miss the connection. As there are no other passengers than ferry users, I don't think the train would depart anyway.

 

[CarterUSM]

It is at controls discretion to hold the train but this course of action is increasingly rare. The ferries, especially CalMac, seem to be more flexible on their part though. It isn't a very good reflection on the railway all the same.

 

[Old Timer]

Seen it happen at Holyhead.

Holy head used to be the receiving point for mail from Ireland, hence the title"Irish Mail" 1A04 0125 Holyhead to Euston

This was a Boat Train and thus its running, and that of its relief (0053 ex Holyhead), were dependent upon how the ship was running.

As 1A04 was advertised from Crewe and formed an early morning Up service then dependent upon the number of passengers, it would either run late or a relief would be run behind it some point.

It sometimes was the case that a special ran from Crewe to London in its booked times.

Coversely the ship would also wait a resonable time for incoming passengers off 1D84 the Down "Irish Mail"

 

[tannedfrog]

If I had just managed to get on that train, I would have been very tempted to try to cause that the train to be held for 5 minutes to let the others arrive

For example, getting something stuck in the doors / arguing with the driver?

Any thoughts on how I would have been able to do it without getting thrown off the train?!

 

[Greenback]

No, if the train crew are under instruction not to hold the train you will be wasting your time and may find yourself in a bit of trouble.

 

[tannedfrog]

Fair enough, but for the "greater good" there may be a way of slightly delaying a train without getting into too much trouble. I just don't know what that way is other than standing in front of it?!

 

[Old Timer]

Fair enough, but for the "greater good" there may be a way of slightly delaying a train without getting into too much trouble. I just don't know what that way is other than standing in front of it?!

The greater good of whom exactly ?

 

[Greenback]

Quite. Although I'm sure the majority of passengers already on the train wouldn't mind too much if they waited another few minutes. I've never heard any complaints as long as there is announcement explaining the reasons for holding the train.

Mind you, I'm not sure there would be many on the train from Stranraer if it's anything like Fishguard!

 

[tannedfrog]

The greater good of whom exactly ?

the HSS docked at 1937. The train departed on time at 1940.

There will, however, be very many disgruntled passengers who didn't make it. That boat was rammed with foot passengers, and I saw quite a few of them just make it onto the platform as we rolled past. In the end we had to wait an extra five minutes at Barrhill to let the southbound train past, so the train could probably have been held with no additional delay.

It will have been immensely frustrating for many of those passengers, because I knew some had onward connections to Dundee, Fife, etc which the later train simply couldn't make.

Sadly the local rail users committee (I forget their name) had volunteers on the train doing their annual summer survey. With just two connecting ferry passengers making the service, they obviously didn't get the volume of feedback they would have hoped for on what is normally such a busy Friday night train

.....

 

[Greenback]

I think that's probably likely, although I've never been to Stranraer it seems the station is at the port rather than the town and judging by other threads seems to exist mostly for the benefit of ferry passengers.

 

[Old Timer]

the greater good of those passengers, it sounds like there were many more people on the boat than on the train

And what of the greater good of the rest of the passengers enroute ?

What of them ?

There are many many reasons why a train may be instructed to leave on time, and many of them may have to do with the greater good of the bigger majority of passengers.

For example, a late start away from Aberystwyth will affect incomomg train sove rthe single line, it will cause further delays at Shrewsburyt, it will definitely lose its path at Wolverhampton, and approaching New St.

The knock on affects to other trains will thus far outweigh any small number that may be involved at the start of the journey.

In many cases a late running train will not make up time but will loose time, causing further an more disruption as it proceeds, which in turn creates more.

Even a small delay at somewhere like New St can and does ripple out. I remember one delay working its way into delays at Penzance and Inverness !

 

[Greenback]

I would venture to suggest that the knock on effects may have been mitigated in many instances with the additional padding that has been inserted into timetables in the last few years!

 

[Old Timer]

Possibly but try working along the Coventry - Wolverhampton corridor if you lose your path !

 

[Greenback]

Yes, that's another kettle of fish entirely!

 

[jon0844]

Are there specific train journeys that are classified as connecting services and can be held without financial penalty for being late?

I realise in some areas, the big problem is losing paths, but that can't be the case everywhere - especially at weekends in rural areas where a connection could be vital given the time until the next service (IF there's a next service).

Or does the railway simple ignore connections and say though - to keep to the schedules?

 

[Greenback]

I don;t think there are any connecting services that can officially be held without penalty.

Some things have to be judged, where there is an infrequent service (like Fishguard and Stranraer) there must be a stronger case for holding a train than where there are trains every 15 minutes! Equally, some consideration must be given to the numbers of passengers already on board, the numbers held up, the pathing consequences, the expense to the TOC of providing taxi's where relevant, and probably a number of other things too.

Where proper consideration has been given, I don't think we can complain too much, but in this case I would be concerned that some person in control had just decided that 'no trains must be held' without considering the consequences and not reaching a resoaned decision.