Lumo (East Coast Trains) Class 803 Updates/Discussion

[hexagon789]

Have there been any updates on interior layout? I assume it will be the usual layout, minus first class.

No kitchen so presumably greater seating in the end cars, still not sure if they are having a buffet. Sources different on that element.

Presumably otherwise they will be exactly the same as all the other 80x thus far - up to 88 seats in the intermediate cars.

 

[Domh245]

No kitchen so presumably greater seating in the end cars, still not sure if they are having a buffet. Sources different on that element.

Presumably otherwise they will be exactly the same as all the other 80x thus far - up to 88 seats in the intermediate cars.

Would be very surprising if they did have a buffet. Based on previous posts (from people who'd know) claiming substantially different interior layouts, and the discussion starting here (tl;dr - the 803s will notionally have 400 seats, an all-standard "normal" layout 80x comes in at 376, so clearly some extra seats are being found somewhere, or there's generous rounding) - them having the standard 80x layout would be a surprise

 

[hexagon789]

Would be very surprising if they did have a buffet. Based on previous posts (from people who'd know) claiming substantially different interior layouts, and the discussion starting here (tl;dr - the 803s will notionally have 400 seats, an all-standard "normal" layout 80x comes in at 376, so clearly some extra seats are being found somewhere, or there's generous rounding) - them having the standard 80x layout would be a surprise

I do agree with you, it seems surprising but more than one source has mentioned this, even quite recently. The extra seats could be from - no first class, no kitchen in one end car. Though even that doesn't seem to get you to 400 buffet or not.

 

[Bald Rick]

I’m sure I heard it was at seat service only - trolley or similar.

 

[hexagon789]

I’m sure I heard it was at seat service only - trolley or similar.

Their own publicity says 'at-seat', but Rail Gazette recently said, again, 'on board buffet'. Could well be they are spouting tosh on that point.

 

[Bald Rick]

Their own publicity says 'at-seat', but Rail Gazette recently said, again, 'on board buffet'. Could well be they are spouting tosh on that point.

Does any class 80x have a buffet?

 

[Ianno87]

Does any class 80x have a buffet?

LNER have a small micro-buffet thing in standard.

 

[hexagon789]

Does any class 80x have a buffet?

Just LNER, small counter in one of the Std Class coaches on both 5 and 9-car sets. Takes up 16 seats iirc.

 

[Bald Rick]

LNER have a small micro-buffet thing in standard.

Ah, I didn’t know that.

Given that First will be going large on customer service, I would expect that they would rather their staff are up and down the aisles rather than having one tied to a buffet. I think I read somewhere that the on board staff are going to be ‘Customer Hosts’; the drivers are certainly ‘Customer Drivers’.

 

[superalbs]

Personally I'd like to see them do the at-seat ordering service, like you'd find on ÖBB Railjet or Avanti West Coast. Much better than a poxy little trolley!

 

[hexagon789]

Personally I'd like to see them do the at-seat ordering service, like you'd find on ÖBB Railjet or Avanti West Coast. Much better than a poxy little trolley!

Isn't that what GWR theoretically offers but often fails to deliver? Ie you order when the trolley passes and theoretically you can obtain hot items this way but as the trolley often doesn't pass... you get the picture.

 

[Ianno87]

Personally I'd like to see them do the at-seat ordering service, like you'd find on ÖBB Railjet or Avanti West Coast. Much better than a poxy little trolley!

They do (on some trains): https://www.lner.co.uk/the-east-coast-experience/the-east-coast-standard/catering/#Menu

Let's Eat at your seat​

Stay socially distanced onboard - even when you need a snack. You can now use our new Let's Eat at your seat service to order food and drinks directly to your seat! Just scan the QR code at your seat.

Isn't that what GWR theoretically offers but often fails to deliver? Ie you order when the trolley passes and theoretically you can obtain hot items this way but as the trolley often doesn't pass... you get the picture.

No. You order via an App at any time and someone delivers it to you.

 

[superalbs]

They do (on some trains): https://www.lner.co.uk/the-east-coast-experience/the-east-coast-standard/catering/#Menu





No. You order via an App at any time and someone delivers it to you.

I am referring to FirstGroup's service.

 

[Ianno87]

I am referring to FirstGroup's service.

Ah, I see. (Presumed we we carrying on the chat about LNER).

I agree, I think at-seat ordering generally is the future of on-train catering, combined with a traditional trolley for the "impulse" purchases.

 

[Bald Rick]

I’m guessing here, but with two staff on board (excluding the Customer Driver) there could be quite a lot of running around if delivering orders from an app, so I would have thought an airline style trolley service would be more effective. Particularly with a 2h30+ non stop run to do a couple of laps of the train. Perhaps use an app for pre orders?

Eg ‘special offer, 10% off if you order when booking’ - customer knows they’ll get what they want, ECTL can have a better idea of stock requirements (potentially a long way in advance), and avoid the staff time of completing the transaction on board, and can get a good swathe of customer preference data.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Ah, I see. (Presumed we we carrying on the chat about LNER).

I agree, I think at-seat ordering generally is the future of on-train catering, combined with a traditional trolley for the "impulse" purchases.

I've said elsewhere that if I was setting up a completely new InterCity rail service with none of the existing "baggage" of job roles people and Unions are attached to, I would have a driver and stewards, with the latter being evacuation, revenue and accessibility* trained, a bit like a plane, but they would also do things like at seat service. This sort of concept fits well with that. I wonder will ECT go that way?

I'd not do it via an app because it's a faff, you want to minimise "clicks" - so scan a QR code (which includes the seat number) to go to a website and pick directly from the menu with a submit button and that's it. Payment takes too many extra clicks, easier for the staff to show up with a card machine when they bring it. Though perhaps an app could be an option for regulars who would like to pay that way.

* If reservations are fully compulsory on this new service, then there is no need to go and check the platform at each station, because anyone making a reservation requiring assistance will be able to choose it when they book their ticket.

 

[Bald Rick]

I wonder will ECT go that way?

Racing certainty I would say, although I don’t imagine all the onboard hosts will have operational safety competence.

 

[YorksLad12]

I’m guessing here, but with two staff on board (excluding the Customer Driver) there could be quite a lot of running around if delivering orders from an app, so I would have thought an airline style trolley service would be more effective. Particularly with a 2h30+ non stop run to do a couple of laps of the train. Perhaps use an app for pre orders?

Good for the old step count though. Wonder if they're recruiting? A job, on a train, with exercise, just what I need about now...

 

[Bald Rick]

Good for the old step count though. Wonder if they're recruiting? A job, on a train, with exercise, just what I need about now...

Not yet, drivers are in training, with more being recruited (qualified drivers only need apply). I guess on train staff will be recruited over the summer - it can’t be more than a few weeks training.

 

[omnicity4659]

Not yet, drivers are in training, with more being recruited (qualified drivers only need apply). I guess on train staff will be recruited over the summer - it can’t be more than a few weeks training.

On train staff have already been recruited.

 

[gallafent]

Payment takes too many extra clicks, easier for the staff to show up with a card machine when they bring it.

Apple pay can be used to pay on a website when using Safari on iOS / macOS, I assume same is true for Google Pay when using Chrome on Android / ChromeOS, at least. Very low friction. Avoiding the time taken for the human payment interaction would allow a steward to spend less time serving each customer too (thus faster service at busy times). Not having to carry a card machine would also be one less thing for the steward! … although non-legacy ones (i.e. no printer) such as iZettle are extremely compact and light now.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Apple pay can be used to pay on a website when using Safari on iOS / macOS, I assume same is true for Google Pay when using Chrome on Android / ChromeOS, at least. Very low friction. Avoiding the time taken for the human payment interaction would allow a steward to spend less time serving each customer too (thus faster service at busy times). Not having to carry a card machine would also be one less thing for the steward! … although non-legacy ones (i.e. no printer) such as iZettle are extremely compact and light now.

They would need a card machine anyway as not everyone will order by phone.

 

[hexagon789]

No. You order via an App at any time and someone delivers it to you.

Ah okay, different approach to what I was thinking of

 

[superalbs]

Just seen this on Twitter, a different type of (previously unseen) seat on one of the new Class 803 units.

The seats are dark blue, with an orange line on the headrest. The backs are narrow, and the armrests look small, but there is a large winged headrest. They also appear to have three-part cushions.

You can also see a table seat to the far left of the image.

https://twitter.com/lrp_745/status/1397331916454612992

 

[greatvoyager]

Just seen this on Twitter, a different type of (previously unseen) seat on one of the new Class 803 units.

The seats are dark blue, with an orange line on the headrest. The backs are narrow, and the armrests look small, but there is a large winged headrest. They also appear to have three-part cushions.

You can also see a table seat to the far left of the image.

https://twitter.com/lrp_745/status/1397331916454612992

That seat looks promising.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Seems to have been taken down, but that sounds like the Avanti proposal I saw? Both are FirstGroup I suppose.

 

[Bob Price]

Someone has posted that 803001 is on a test run today while others are saying it's just a Hull Trains unit they are using for driver training. Either way it just passed Doncaster.

 

[Chris125]

You can see the photos here: https://twitter.com/Clinnick1/status/1397460868619718656

 

[Failed Unit]

Seat looks OK - nice view of some plastic for some lucky passengers

 

[Jamesrob637]

Seat looks OK - nice view of some plastic for some lucky passengers

I'd have said seat for a very cheap Advance at the window and an even cheaper Advance on the aisle once trains can be fully filled again which is what they'll be by the time these enter service.