Station lights

[Zoe]

Do lights at stations get switched off after the last train has departed? I seem to remember a few years back when I was on the Night Riviera, lights were swithched off at former Regional Railways stations but left on at Intercity and NSE stations. As many stations have public access throughout the night I would have thought there would be a risk of injury if the lights were switched off.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

My locals Cherry Tree and Mill Hill (Lancs) are lit through the night as far as I'm aware, Blackburn is too I think (well, the subway at least - it acts as a tunnel from town-cinema too, may be switched off after the last train at about 0030)

 

[GB]

Not at NXEA.

 

[Old Timer]

The policy in BR days was as follows :-

Large stations which shut overnight retained some platform lights, but offices and unused areas were switched off.

For the remainder manned stations generally had most of the lights switched off overnight.

In the case of stations unmanned overnight (or unmanned stations) the lights were on a timeswitch generally set to go off up to an hour after the last booked departure.

These guidelines have transferred over generally but may have been modified in recent years.

Certainly when I was on Infrastructure until recently, we used to arrange with the staff for station lights to be left on overnight when we were working during Possessions.

 

[route101]

Busby Train Stn the lights are switched around 1 and come on around 5 .

 

[boing_uk]

Ive raised a similar matter with Northern and Virgin about lighting their stations; dayburning a particular bugbear of mine. Northerns response?

Northern do not own the stations that they operate. Under our franchise agreement we cannot alter any of the facilities at stations, without permission, as these are owned by Network Rail. As I said in my previous e-mail any improvements are carried out in conjunction with key stakeholders when a large range of options will be considered.

In my previous email I had suggested the fitting of a photocell to switch the lights on and off, instead of the timeswitch, which is clearly set far too wide of the mark at most of their unstaffed stations.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Boing, Perhaps Northern ( or any other TOC for that matter! ) should ask NR how much of their access agreement money is being used to pay for the electricity used when the lights are on during the daytime...?

It'll get sorted pretty quickly then...

 

[DaveNewcastle]

. . . . how much of their access agreement money is being used to pay for the electricity used when the lights are on during the daytime...?

Do we know if all stations' receive metered supplies?

It is highly likely that, during the period of nationalised coal mining, rail transport and power generation, and the close interdependence of these 3 on each other, that the railways' electricity was unmetered. Does anyone know?

. . . lighting their stations; dayburning a particular bugbear of mine.

I guess there are other potential wastages which are much greater, but we don't have much data to go on. It would be interesting to read an analysis of power consumption over a number of facilities and times of day.
My biggest interest would be power losses while keeping OHLE and 3rd rail energised during long rainy periods while not being used (eg overnight) and anything that heats up "the outside" in cold weather (eg points heaters).

 

[Mojo]

Someone I know works at a suburban station in Birmingham which has no public access to it outside of train operating hours. All lights are left on with the exception of those in the ticket office (the actual staff-only office itself; lights on the concourse are left on).

 

[boing_uk]

Okay, take my local station Squires Gate:

Doing the sums on that station it has:

10 x (assumed) 75w lamps, burning for 16 hours a day regardless of time of year. That burns 12kWh per day @ 0.11p / kWh = £1.32 a day, or £481.80.

If we assume a photocell is fitted and use a rough rule of thumb guide of 16hrs burn for 183 days a year and 11hrs burn for 182 days, we get a cost of £406.725 a year.

Roll that across say 200 stations that may fit the same sort of design as Squires Gate, thats a saving of £15,015.

Add in the carbon saving of £4,095 thats a saving of £19,110.

Now lets assume a payback period of any investment of five years, that means the cost to fit a photocell to each station would have to be less than £477.75.

I will freely admit that it will be more complicated on some stations than others, but simple stations if it costs more than £477.75 to fit a single photocell to the incoming supply point, I'm in the wrong job.

 

[Old Timer]

Do we know if all stations' receive metered supplies?

It is highly likely that, during the period of nationalised coal mining, rail transport and power generation, and the close interdependence of these 3 on each other, that the railways' electricity was unmetered. Does anyone know? ....

That was the case in BR days and I cannot see any reason for it to be altered.

.....I guess there are other potential wastages which are much greater, but we don't have much data to go on. It would be interesting to read an analysis of power consumption over a number of facilities and times of day.

My biggest interest would be power losses while keeping OHLE and 3rd rail energised during long rainy periods while not being used (eg overnight) and anything that heats up "the outside" in cold weather (eg points heaters).

There is only very little usage of electricity over the OHL when there are no trains in section. I cannot speak for third rail but I presume that the current flow will be sufficient to complete the circuit in the same way.

It is not the policy to switch off OHL Equipment because of the risk of snow or ice forming on the insulators of conductors and causing a flashover when the traction current was restored. In the event that a build up does occur, it is sufficiently "light" as not to cause a very heavy current to be drawn sufficient to cause a failure of the insulator or other support equipment. "Light" flashovers whilst being undesirable are generally contained by the construction of the equipment.

Points heating equipment operates via a site installed thermostat with is set to come on about 0C. Because snow will fall at up to 4C the Special Box Instructions in each signalbox/PSB/IECC require that the heaters are manually over-ridden during the time that snow is falling.

Signalling location cases have individual heaters installed to prevent relays freezing, following experiences many, many years ago, as do other locations where sensitive equipment is installed.

Signalling relay rooms and OHL feeder stations and other similar locations are obviously heated via an internal site thermostat.

 

[GB]

It is not the policy to switch off OHL Equipment because of the risk of snow or ice forming on the insulators of conductors and causing a flashover when the traction current was restored. In the event that a build up does occur, it is sufficiently "light" as not to cause a very heavy current to be drawn sufficient to cause a failure of the insulator or other support equipment. "Light" flashovers whilst being undesirable are generally contained by the construction of the equipment.

Not to mention the huge increase in risk of theft!

 

[rail-britain]

In the ScotRail area, the lights are turned off about 60 minutes after the last passenger train is timed to depart and turned on about 30 minutes prior to the first passenger train is timed to arrive / depart

As a result when a train is running late it can end up arriving at a station in complete darkness
I remember working on a "very delayed" Aberdeen - Euston sleeper, and from Montrose onwards all the stations were in darkness

 

[Wyvern]

I will freely admit that it will be more complicated on some stations than others, but simple stations if it costs more than £477.75 to fit a single photocell to the incoming supply point, I'm in the wrong job.

I think you'll find that £500 would be cheap. Given that it costs £100 -£200 just to attend a site, plus the amount of paperwork that has to be generated nowadays.

I'm sure I read somewhere that it cost £200 just to get a lamp changed in a waiting room.

 

[Old Timer]

A Network Rail signalman told me a little while back of a case when the main light blew, and he was in effect left in darkness.

Although he was happy to continue with his bardic, it was decided that the on call electrician would have to attend - from York some 3 hours drive, meaning he would arrive close to dawn.

On arrival the electrician was unable to replace the lamp because it was of a non-standard type, hence the call out and attendance had been a complete waste.

Standing orders preclude the signalman from simply changing the lamp :roll:

Yet another case of well meaning electrical Regulations having unintended consequences under the UKs Safety Taliban regime.

 

[boing_uk]

It is highly likely that, during the period of nationalised coal mining, rail transport and power generation, and the close interdependence of these 3 on each other, that the railways' electricity was unmetered. Does anyone know?

You can get unmetered supplies for anything near enough. But you do have to provide an ELEXON code and switching regime for every piece of equipment attached to that supply to the energy supplier for billing purposes.

 

[Dolive22]

Nationalised industries were seperate, with coal, rail (in the early years transport as a whole), and power being in separate silos. At times the Central Electricity Generating Board and the local board probably wouldn't be on good enough terms to do away with billing let alone the local elec board and the BRB.

A bulb that is nominally '75w' as you see it will usually use much less than that. A bulb you think of as 75w emits the light that an old filament bulb would emit using 75 watts, but these lights will be flourescents which use much less power. As to a 5 year pay back, that's pretty good, especially given Network Rail has the implicit backing of HMG and therefore rock bottom long term interest rates. There was a piece in todays FT about green energy sources for private individuals which was quite favourable about things with much longer payback times (sorry no link, the FT's been paywalled since before Murdoch even knew what a paywall was, I can tell you more if you ask). A 4 year payback was talked about with the kind of glee you would expect if they had just discovered that caviar and champagne were allowable expenses against income tax.

GB, I suppose we should also factor in the possibility that they might misjudge when the power would come on.