Avanti - Trainee Train Driver - Wolverhampton (17/01/22)

[Emma2021]

Those that have already received invite to opc how far away is the date?

 

[Dan61]

Before my results got accepted and I was told I only needed to do the CBI I was given the 18th Feb

 

[New York Giant]

Those that have already received invite to opc how far away is the date?

16th Feb.

 

[SD1]

16th Feb.

Me too.

 

[Jaytrains]

No if you fail the CBI it counts as one of your lives and still overrides your pass mark for the MMI interview. Regardless of the result of the CBI if you take the chance and opt in it will automatically override you MMI result

Exactly why i opted out of this because many tocs dont even use the cbi and a start date is not guaranteed with any toc, even if u pass the assessments

 

[SCDR_WMR]

Exactly why i opted out of this because many tocs dont even use the cbi and a start date is not guaranteed with any toc, even if u pass the assessments

Agreed. I've dropped out as I have all the other testing complete and in application process with 3 other TOCs, would be silly to erase my MMI when the others use it

 

[AgentGemini]

I submitted my test Sunday, and not heard back still. How long did it take for those of you offered dates to hear back please?

 

[Bluenosemase]

I submitted my test Sunday, and not heard back still. How long did it take for those of you offered dates to hear back please?

No news is good news mate, I’m sure you’ll hear soon.

 

[The Don]

Agreed. I've dropped out as I have all the other testing complete and in application process with 3 other TOCs, would be silly to erase my MMI when the others use it

I was told by the OPC if you didn't pass the CBI then the MMI can still be used

 

[SCDR_WMR]

I was told by the OPC if you didn't pass the CBI then the MMI can still be used

I hope you have that in writing, lots of people have said differently and OPC seem to give different answers to different people.
I only really have DMI/medical left to do at 2 other TOCs so I'm not too fussed about dropping out

 

[The Don]

Do you have a date for the DMI's?

 

[New York Giant]

I submitted my test Sunday, and not heard back still. How long did it take for those of you offered dates to hear back please?

I got the invitation email on 25th Jan. Probably worth mentioning that I didn't have to attempt the SJT etc.. as I'd passed them last October for DRS, or at least I'm guessing that's why I received a bye.

 

[Albagubrath]

This information seems rather incorrect. The psychometric tests firstly are known as 2 types, either a national pass or an ‘enhanced’ pass. Enhanced, it seems can be anything above the National depending on what the company itself wants and they can add further tests such as the DFFT test. For the rest of the information regarding test days and their format, use the search function or read the email sent to you by the TOC, but the day 2 certainly doesn’t just do the Grey square test and 2 interviews.

This information seems rather incorrect. The psychometric tests firstly are known as 2 types, either a national pass or an ‘enhanced’ pass. Enhanced, it seems can be anything above the National depending on what the company itself wants and they can add further tests such as the DFFT test. For the rest of the information regarding test days and their format, use the search function or read the email sent to you by the TOC, but the day 2 certainly doesn’t just do the Grey square test and 2 interviews.

Seems Rather “incorrect”??? I would know as I attended the day 2 tests which was the Grey Square Test, OPC interview and Driver Manager Interview……….and got the job!!!

How do you know this and what do you class as very early or very late?

Wolverhampton Depot struggles to get drivers as the shift pattern is terrible, every shift is a book on very very early in the morn or later on in the evening there’s nothing in the middle starting at “normal shift times”

What is LLC?


Why would you start at 2/3/4am when the trains don't start until 5:45 ish?

Thanks for your insite though, it's handy to know

Train preps, shunts, etc!

 

[Efini92]

Wolverhampton Depot struggles to get drivers as the shift pattern is terrible, every shift is a book on very very early in the morn or later on in the evening there’s nothing in the middle starting at “normal shift times”

That’s not quite true, there’s a few middle of the day turns.
The early book on times are no earlier than other TOC’s.

 

[NorthernTech]

For Avanti it needs to be an advanced pass in ALL the sections of the OPC Testing.


It will take you 2 full days to do the testing IF you pass Day 1 and it needs to be to an ADVANCED standard. Day 1 you will do 4 test papers one of which is listening to tones whilst doing another task.

If you are invited for day 2 you do 3 stages, the first is the looking at the grey dot on a screen for a long period of time pressing the button if it changes colour. This test is an instant mark of pass or fail… fail and your home. 2nd part is the interview with the OPC which is designed to see if the job is suitable for you and that you have the physical and mental capabilities to do the job, you won’t find out if you passed this until later and then it’s an interview with 2 Depot Managers which is then getting to know you and asking you questions based on your experiences.

If there are 20 of you there on day 1 the odds are that only 1 possibly none of you will obtain the advance pass mark to make it to day 2!!


All the positions for other depots will get snapped up by internal recruiting. Problem is the shifts at Wolverhampton Depot are terrible hence why they can’t fill the jobs internally!

So what you are saying here is day one is 4 papers…. Yes, widely known as Stage 1 or the Paper Test stage. Group Bourdon (dots), TRP 1 (glop), TRP 2 (dials) and the Tea-Occ which is in three parts (Tones, Directory, Tones+Directory). Some companies also do the WCT Written Communication Test, which I’ve done once, I’d be surprised if Avanti don’t but they may not. I believe some also a DFFT Driver Fault Finding Test too, but not sure if this is done on Stage 1 or Stage 2.

But then Stage 2 or Computer Test stage, where you are quoting me as wrong in, you say it consists of just one computer test of the Grey Square or WAFV test plus two interviews. The industry standard Train Driver computer tests are WAFV (grey square), ATAVT (traffic pictures/scenes), 2 Hand Co-ordination (joysticks), SJT Situational Judgement Test, then if you pass all these you go onto a MMI (sometimes called a CBI I believe) these are the Psychometric tests done.. Now you may have gone on to do a DMI Driver Manager Interview after all these, never heard of anyone doing a DMI on same day before but I suppose it is possible, but you do seem to have forgotten a lot about the other tests that HAVE to be done. So to clarify, it’s 4 separate tests on the Computer Test part, not just 1 grey square test. Like I said, ‘seems rather incorrect’. Unless of course you come back for a third day, and they sit you down to finish the computer tests. Some operators have you do the Stage 1 and 2 tests in one go, no only having to practice half of the tests at a time, but all in one day, as I had to do.

Also, for the companies that look for an ‘Enhanced’ pass rather than ‘National’ standard, I don’t believe (but not fully sure on this) that ALL tests are Enhanced scores to pass, I think it’s just certain tests that they look to Enhanced levels for. Well done though for getting the job though, congratulations! Even better if they forgot to do some of the industry standard tests, you got it easier than most!

 

[AverageJoe]

So what you are saying here is day one is 4 papers…. Yes, widely known as Stage 1 or the Paper Test stage. Group Bourdon (dots), TRP 1 (glop), TRP 2 (dials) and the Tea-Occ which is in three parts (Tones, Directory, Tones+Directory). Some companies also do the WCT Written Communication Test, which I’ve done once, I’d be surprised if Avanti don’t but they may not. I believe some also a DFFT Driver Fault Finding Test too, but not sure if this is done on Stage 1 or Stage 2.

But then Stage 2 or Computer Test stage, where you are quoting me as wrong in, you say it consists of just one computer test of the Grey Square or WAFV test plus two interviews. The industry standard Train Driver computer tests are WAFV (grey square), ATAVT (traffic pictures/scenes), 2 Hand Co-ordination (joysticks), SJT Situational Judgement Test, then if you pass all these you go onto a MMI (sometimes called a CBI I believe) these are the Psychometric tests done.. Now you may have gone on to do a DMI Driver Manager Interview after all these, never heard of anyone doing a DMI on same day before but I suppose it is possible, but you do seem to have forgotten a lot about the other tests that HAVE to be done. So to clarify, it’s 4 separate tests on the Computer Test part, not just 1 grey square test. Like I said, ‘seems rather incorrect’. Unless of course you come back for a third day, and they sit you down to finish the computer tests. Some operators have you do the Stage 1 and 2 tests in one go, no only having to practice half of the tests at a time, but all in one day, as I had to do.

Also, for the companies that look for an ‘Enhanced’ pass rather than ‘National’ standard, I don’t believe (but not fully sure on this) that ALL tests are Enhanced scores to pass, I think it’s just certain tests that they look to Enhanced levels for. Well done though for getting the job though, congratulations! Even better if they forgot to do some of the industry standard tests, you got it easier than most!

I just did the assessment day for a different TOC.

We sat stage 1,2 and 3 in the same day.

Stage 1 - group bourdon, dials, memory test, phone book/tones

Stage 2 - grey dot, joystick, pictures

Stage 3 - 6 questions (for mmi) and then a load of “what is the most appropriate response” questions followed by the MMI.

I specifically asked which tests needed to be passed to enhanced standard and was told all but the MMI.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

I just did the assessment day for a different TOC.

We sat stage 1,2 and 3 in the same day.

Stage 1 - group bourdon, dials, memory test, phone book/tones

Stage 2 - grey dot, joystick, pictures

Stage 3 - 6 questions (for mmi) and then a load of “what is the most appropriate response” questions followed by the MMI.

I specifically asked which tests needed to be passed to enhanced standard and was told all but the MMI.

Yeah that's pretty much the standard set of tests, sometimes spread out over 2 days which I found better for me

 

[Albagubrath]

That’s not quite true, there’s a few middle of the day turns.
The early book on times are no earlier than other

So what you are saying here is day one is 4 papers…. Yes, widely known as Stage 1 or the Paper Test stage. Group Bourdon (dots), TRP 1 (glop), TRP 2 (dials) and the Tea-Occ which is in three parts (Tones, Directory, Tones+Directory). Some companies also do the WCT Written Communication Test, which I’ve done once, I’d be surprised if Avanti don’t but they may not. I believe some also a DFFT Driver Fault Finding Test too, but not sure if this is done on Stage 1 or Stage 2.

But then Stage 2 or Computer Test stage, where you are quoting me as wrong in, you say it consists of just one computer test of the Grey Square or WAFV test plus two interviews. The industry standard Train Driver computer tests are WAFV (grey square), ATAVT (traffic pictures/scenes), 2 Hand Co-ordination (joysticks), SJT Situational Judgement Test, then if you pass all these you go onto a MMI (sometimes called a CBI I believe) these are the Psychometric tests done.. Now you may have gone on to do a DMI Driver Manager Interview after all these, never heard of anyone doing a DMI on same day before but I suppose it is possible, but you do seem to have forgotten a lot about the other tests that HAVE to be done. So to clarify, it’s 4 separate tests on the Computer Test part, not just 1 grey square test. Like I said, ‘seems rather incorrect’. Unless of course you come back for a third day, and they sit you down to finish the computer tests. Some operators have you do the Stage 1 and 2 tests in one go, no only having to practice half of the tests at a time, but all in one day, as I had to do.

Also, for the companies that look for an ‘Enhanced’ pass rather than ‘National’ standard, I don’t believe (but not fully sure on this) that ALL tests are Enhanced scores to pass, I think it’s just certain tests that they look to Enhanced levels for. Well done though for getting the job though, congratulations! Even better if they forgot to do some of the industry standard tests, you got it easier than most!

Yes you are correct the computer tests quoted are done on the Day 2 as per of the computer based tests.

The enhanced passes are required for the tests done on day 1. The fault finding test you mention are also done on day 1 along with all the other tests you mentioned.

The way day 2 is conducted is by way of 3 sessions (this is what I was meaning), computer test, interview, interview. However if you fail the computer tests you don’t even progress onto the interview stages.

Hope this clarifies things.

 

[New York Giant]

Yes you are correct the computer tests quoted are done on the Day 2 as per of the computer based tests.

The enhanced passes are required for the tests done on day 1. The fault finding test you mention are also done on day 1 along with all the other tests you mentioned.

The way day 2 is conducted is by way of 3 sessions (this is what I was meaning), computer test, interview, interview. However if you fail the computer tests you don’t even progress onto the interview stages.

Hope this clarifies things.

Hope somebody can clear something up for me. Are your tests marked after each individual test or do you sit all 3 (or 4) in a session and get told which ones you pass and fail?
I only ask because some people attend OPC knowing they only have to do the joystick test (just an example). Or is this generally the last stage 2 test?

 

[NorthernTech]

Yes you are correct the computer tests quoted are done on the Day 2 as per of the computer based tests.

The enhanced passes are required for the tests done on day 1. The fault finding test you mention are also done on day 1 along with all the other tests you mentioned.

The way day 2 is conducted is by way of 3 sessions (this is what I was meaning), computer test, interview, interview. However if you fail the computer tests you don’t even progress onto the interview stages.

Hope this clarifies things.

I think it was me that clarified things, you said it was Grey Square test and 2 interviews, I said that this was incorrect. You then made it look like I was wrong, and stated you must be right cos you got the job. If you are wrong, hold your hands up and admit it, especially if you are trying to make me look like I’d made a mistake!! I wonder what you would do if you made a mistake at work? So, in conclusion, I was exactly correct, thank you.

I just did the assessment day for a different TOC.

We sat stage 1,2 and 3 in the same day.

Stage 1 - group bourdon, dials, memory test, phone book/tones

Stage 2 - grey dot, joystick, pictures

Stage 3 - 6 questions (for mmi) and then a load of “what is the most appropriate response” questions followed by the MMI.

I specifically asked which tests needed to be passed to enhanced standard and was told all but the MMI.

So exactly what I said then, except Stage 3 as you call it is usually classed as part of Stage 2 or Day 2 if it’s separate. They perhaps term it stage three because it’s at that point where you are told that you have either passed the Computer Tests and move on, or failed and go home. Semantics really. The 6 questions are often given to you in stage 1 to answer so that the MMI interviewer can prepare questions to ask you based on those scenarios, and the ‘what’s the most appropriate response’ questions are called a Situational Judgement Test. As for what scores are Enhanced and what isn’t, this is up to the TOC and to what degree. It’s a closely guarded secret to what marks constitute a pass etc but I’m not surprised that Avanti want higher scores.

 

[AverageJoe]

I think it was me that clarified things, you said it was Grey Square test and 2 interviews, I said that this was incorrect. You then made it look like I was wrong, and stated you must be right cos you got the job. If you are wrong, hold your hands up and admit it, especially if you are trying to make me look like I’d made a mistake!! I wonder what you would do if you made a mistake at work? So, in conclusion, I was exactly correct, thank you.


So exactly what I said then, except Stage 3 as you call it is usually classed as part of Stage 2 or Day 2 if it’s separate. They perhaps term it stage three because it’s at that point where you are told that you have either passed the Computer Tests and move on, or failed and go home. Semantics really. The 6 questions are often given to you in stage 1 to answer so that the MMI interviewer can prepare questions to ask you based on those scenarios, and the ‘what’s the most appropriate response’ questions are called a Situational Judgement Test. As for what scores are Enhanced and what isn’t, this is up to the TOC and to what degree. It’s a closely guarded secret to what marks constitute a pass etc but I’m not surprised that Avanti want higher scores.

I was just sharing my experience with TPE testing, I’m not sure what you said in earlier posts.

Yes it was classed as stage 3 because others went home if failing the computer tests.

 

[Shunted]

Hope somebody can clear something up for me. Are your tests marked after each individual test or do you sit all 3 (or 4) in a session and get told which ones you pass and fail?
I only ask because some people attend OPC knowing they only have to do the joystick test (just an example). Or is this generally the last stage 2 test?

You sit all the tests in that session and then they are marked. This means that if you fail any of the paper tests then you are sent home without even attempting the computer tests.
This must be gutting for people even on their first attempt as if they return for their second and final attempt at passing the psychometrics, they will not even have attempted the computer tests before.
I did mine where you do all the assessments in one day including MMI and you find out the results before you leave! Couldn’t imagine having to keep going back and then to wait for that email telling you how you have done!
But I imagine some people may prefer this method

 

[New York Giant]

You sit all the tests in that session and then they are marked. This means that if you fail any of the paper tests then you are sent home without even attempting the computer tests.
This must be gutting for people even on their first attempt as if they return for their second and final attempt at passing the psychometrics, they will not even have attempted the computer tests before.
I did mine where you do all the assessments in one day including MMI and you find out the results before you leave! Couldn’t imagine having to keep going back and then to wait for that email telling you how you have done!
But I imagine some people may prefer this method

Cheers for that. I was just looking at it the from the viewpoint of approaching both assessment days 1 & 2 with a clean slate.

TfW seems to be putting candidates through a whole day of doing all tests while WMR and Avanti are doing separate dates for each stage. I have dates, only weeks apart for both Avanti and WMR, to sit the paper assessments. I know I can only attend one.

Thinking more long term, at least if I fail to meet Avanti's or WMR's enhanced standard then my 6 month waiting period will be up by September and I'll hopefully be back in contention to sit any remaining assessments with XC or TfW (as long as the latter haven't filled their courses by then).

 

[NorthernTech]

Cheers for that. I was just looking at it the from the viewpoint of approaching both assessment days 1 & 2 with a clean slate.

TfW seems to be putting candidates through a whole day of doing all tests while WMR and Avanti are doing separate dates for each stage. I have dates, only weeks apart for both Avanti and WMR, to sit the paper assessments. I know I can only attend one.

Thinking more long term, at least if I fail to meet Avanti's or WMR's enhanced standard then my 6 month waiting period will be up by September and I'll hopefully be back in contention to sit any remaining assessments with XC or TfW (as long as the latter haven't filled their courses by then).

TfW seem to be doing the tests differently depending on where you sit the assessments according to recent posters on their thread. Some are sitting them in 2 separate days (Paper then Computer etc), and some are doing it in a full day which is obviously harder to prep for and a more stressful day I’d say. I sat the tests wit TfW in 2020 and it was two separate days. We were told if you failed at any point and reapplied, you would have to sit the whole suite of tests again, so you’d probably be doing the lot again if you went to them later. I recently sat the tests with DB and they do a full day of tests too despite what you may have passed recently (unless you had passed everything), thankfully passed it but I was the only one that day! I’m not sure what XC do assessment wise.

Sounds like you just have to take the first test date you are given and be ready for it. If you pass for Avanti, even if you fail to progress then your tests will be valid passes everywhere else.

 

[New York Giant]

TfW seem to be doing the tests differently depending on where you sit the assessments according to recent posters on their thread. Some are sitting them in 2 separate days (Paper then Computer etc), and some are doing it in a full day which is obviously harder to prep for and a more stressful day I’d say. I sat the tests wit TfW in 2020 and it was two separate days. We were told if you failed at any point and reapplied, you would have to sit the whole suite of tests again, so you’d probably be doing the lot again if you went to them later. I recently sat the tests with DB and they do a full day of tests too despite what you may have passed recently (unless you had passed everything), thankfully passed it but I was the only one that day! I’m not sure what XC do assessment wise.

Sounds like you just have to take the first test date you are given and be ready for it. If you pass for Avanti, even if you fail to progress then your tests will be valid passes everywhere else.

I definitely agree with you. Just prepare correctly, have confidence in my ability and crack on.

 

[Dan61]

Just had my date for the CBI interview 29th March

 

[The Don]

30th mine

 

[Virgin_Driver]

The situation there is made a little worse also by having 15 of the depot's drivers in a special "most senior" link (not by age but by length of service with the company) and that link only has jobs that start after 5 a.m and finish before 10 p.m. So of course that does leave more extreme work for the other links.

True there are fifteen of us in link one, not quite right about the shifts. We do have jobs that finish after midnight and can be earlier and later off spare turns.
There is very little difference between any of the four main links. We are the only Avanti depot that take trains on and off of Oxley and Central Rivers depots into service and end of service and that is where the early starts and late finishes originate.
There is little in the way of what you might call “day” turns. About three jobs at the moment.
The vast majority of the time people are able to get swaps for their preferred shift.
There‘s not much night work at the moment, links two, three and four have two weeks each every twenty five to thirty weeks.
For those applying for Wolves the shifts make it very much “a way of life” you either accept it and get on with it or you don’t.
Retirement beckons and so I’m on my way out this year but it is a good job and I would recommend it.
Good luck to those that have applied.

 

[seagull]

For those applying for Wolves the shifts make it very much “a way of life” you either accept it and get on with it or you don’t.
Retirement beckons and so I’m on my way out this year but it is a good job and I would recommend it.
Good luck to those that have applied.

To be fair shift work is part and parcel of any depot in any case - I think for reasons as you say (two depots to cover - even three if Crewe Carriage Sidings is included), plus the earliest departures and latest arrivals, it just makes Wolverhampton the most extreme of the Avanti depots. But also very secure!
Enjoy your retirement.

 

[Emma2021]

The tests in crewe cbi etc will these be done by opc staff or avanti staff, it seems a long way from the opc in Watford where they are based