FreightLocate Demo Service now available

[Simon Poole]

Do yoou think FreightLocate going to keep the demo after it goes live? The Demo has helped an little with railtours and ECS but don't want to pay money to it

 

[Jonny]

This all looks so familiar.

I have recently started following the rail forums after many years away from anything rail orientated. My major hobby is aircraft and aviation forums have had the same kind of questions about security. It is now possible to track aircraft live all over the world. As I sit here typing I can hear (not see as it is raining again!) an aircraft above my head. I know that it is a British Airways Boeing 747 going to Vancouver at 35000ft and 400+ knots. Now some people will tell me that it is very dangerous knowing these things as terrorist Jo Bloggs might want to blow this plane out of the sky, but it is a little more difficult then that.

On the same line (no pun intended) I might sit next to the line at Carnforth knowing that a flask train is due at 10:00. Again, it is a little more difficult to stop it, grab the flask and run. I know that there are nasty people out there, there always have been and always will be (mores the pity), but we must not let paranoia get the better of us.

<truncated>

Andy S

One of the issues is that, with passenger-carrying services, 'planes or otherwise, is that to be viable they need to publish a timetable and also airports have live information display as well, for those who are meeting people off flights. It is pretty easy to aggregate such data.

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Do yoou think FreightLocate going to keep the demo after it goes live? The Demo has helped an little with railtours and ECS but don't want to pay money to it

I'm not sure if it is going to go live as "scheduled" - March 30th has come - in 48 hours it won't even be the end of March anymore - and there is no sign of going live. The issue with legitimacy may be putting them off as once the money comes in, it is easier for anyone who wants to 'sue them to do so (no money = no point in pursuing civil action).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Network Rail is a private Limited Company, and so therefore FOI requests do not apply
It would be subject to requests under the DPA

FOI requests should be submitted to DfT or TS

What about the ORR (Office of Rail Regulation), as it is a statutory body?

 

[IanPooleTrains]

Do yoou think FreightLocate going to keep the demo after it goes live? The Demo has helped an little with railtours and ECS but don't want to pay money to it

You should have done what you planned out on doing well in advance bro

 

[ralphchadkirk]

I wouldn't touch freight locate with a barge pole if I were you.
They'll end up in trouble for getting the data mischievously and if you pay them anything you won't get it back.
It looks to me like some rail interested script kiddies have found a loophole to get the data, and now they think they've got gods gift to trainspotters and want to make millions.

Perhaps a forum meet could be organised to go and see the court case?

 

[theblackwatch]

Given that, according to their website, the service is going live before the end of March, I'm awaiting the next 36 hours with interest. I predict a delay!

 

[IanPooleTrains]

Perhaps a forum meet could be organised to go and see the court case?

That would be interesting, you could go as the defendant's lawyer, I'll go as the prosecution and everyone else could be the jury!

 

[50Fan91]

Very, very interesting website, despite the lack of info as to where the details are coming from..

Having said that, whilst a resource like this is available I'm keen to make use of it!

 

[the-gog]

Very, very interesting website, despite the lack of info as to where the details are coming from..

Having said that, whilst a resource like this is available I'm keen to make use of it!

Yes, they're even showing a 3S03 leaving Wigan tomorrow morning, but you'll have a 6 month wait to see it. All FL does is list all the paths in what's thought to be TRUST, and only a fraction of those paths will actually be used. But they don't say which. You can find this info out by subscribing to Freightmaster instead. Oh, and I have no connection to Freightmaster.

 

[46100ROYALSCOT]

Yes, they're even showing a 3S03 leaving Wigan tomorrow morning, but you'll have a 6 month wait to see it. All FL does is list all the paths in what's thought to be TRUST, and only a fraction of those paths will actually be used. But they don't say which. You can find this info out by subscribing to Freightmaster instead. Oh, and I have no connection to Freightmaster.

Doesn't Freightmaster cost £94.00 not exactly cheap is it? for similar listings and where do they get the info from?????????

 

[Freightmaster]

Doesn't Freightmaster cost £94.00 not exactly cheap is it? for similar listings and where do they get the info from?????????

(sigh)

For clarification, the £94 Freightmaster subscription rate includes
four copies of the printed version, worth almost £60 alone!

As for the FMonline timetables, they are compiled and updated
entirely by hand, and show the 'typical' passing times and running
days for each train, rather than the booked times/days, which are
often significantly different.

As for where I get my info from - no secret: mainly sightings and feedback
from my subscribers, plus studying the many TOPS/TRUST lists posted on
various Yahoo/Google Groups each day.


So while the 'raw info' I use to keep the FMonline timetables up to date is
freely available, my subscribers are happy to pay £49/£80 for me to spend
several hours a day collating it all and using it to create 'user friendly' timetables
which accurately reflect (as far as possible) the trains which run past over
100 different locations...


However, I am the first to admit that Freightmaster has limited appeal;
to most 'casual' enthusiasts who only go out to see railtours, test trains
and other one off workings, and have little interest in 'day to day' freight
operations, subscribing to Freightmaster would probably not be cost effective,
but that doesn't mean that Freightmaster is "too expensive" - just that it
is an extremely specialist service with a limited, albeit loyal, market.


MARK

 

[Ivo]

Just to wish bring this back to the light quickly.

I've just seen a GoogleAd on this very site advertising Freightlocate, and the site certainly looked active. It suggests there is still some development, but that the demo is done with. Any news on the legality side?

 

[GB]

Personally I would have thought if there was dodgy goings on with FL as suggested that the site would have been pulled long ago?

Still, FMi all the way!

 

[rail-britain]

As for where I get my info from - no secret: mainly sightings and feedback from my subscribers, plus studying the many TOPS/TRUST lists posted on various Yahoo/Google Groups each day.

So while the 'raw info' I use to keep the FMonline timetables up to date is
freely available, my subscribers are happy to pay £49/£80 for me to spend
several hours a day collating it all and using it to create 'user friendly' timetables
which accurately reflect (as far as possible) the trains which run past over
100 different locations...

Given the source being used are already free, most people here will know where to look...
However, I can see the benefits if you want more comprehensive information about specific freight trains and with a similar price to a freight timetable the "live" information is pretty much free
Looks like an alternative that may be of benefit to some people

However, personally I would retain a short-term (if slightly expensive) trial period
At £80 I would not subscribe, but if it was £10 for a one month trial I would consider it
Equally, this would be useful when I am on my holiday or in another part of Britain

 

[GB]

The thing is there is more to FMi then just the timetables. With the subscription you also get access to the forum where all of the right up to date information is posted which includes info from other sources and insider info. I find it more valuable then the timetables themselves.

 

[theblackwatch]

So now that it's up and running, has anyone actually stumped up their £35/£60 and subscribed to this (and is prepared to admit to it!)?

 

[the-gog]

I know of one person who has.

 

[networkrail1]

when i click the link in the op post, it opens the webpage, but it also opens a seperate webpage telling me his ip address and home address and everything else is this normal is anyone else getting this or is it just me.

All the best.

Simon

 

[junglejames]

when i click the link in the op post, it opens the webpage, but it also opens a seperate webpage telling me his ip address and home address and everything else is this normal is anyone else getting this or is it just me.

All the best.

Simon

Ive just tried the link, and got nothing like that. Just the normal webpage opened.

Strange that you should get what you did.

 

[Snapper]

FL seems to have dropped off the edge of the world as you never hear of it. Is it still alive - and is anyone actually using it?

The impression is that it's hardly set the world alight...

 

[curly42]

I know of four people who have signed up and all seem quite happy with it. Haven't joined myself so can't give any personal views.

 

[46100ROYALSCOT]

As I had a few bob in my paypal account I thought I did not have a lot to lose having sold some bits on eBay so I finally bit the bullet and subscribed to Freightlocate for 6 months.

To be fare I am also am also a current subscriber to Freightmaster.

What do I think of Freightlocate you may ask?

The good thing about it is I can download a list of VAR, STP and WTT timetables for practically any UK location for up to 2 weeks in advance. I know most of the timetables are available in the many Rail groups but being able to print out exactly what you want when you want is great. These lists include light engine movements and special "Z" head code workings, granted last minute l/e and special workings are not listed but then Freightmaster timetables don’t list any light engine movements or special workings that I have seen, please correct me if I am wrong.

I don’t like the Freightlocate log on page very much and there is no Forum unlike Freightmaster (which is very useful).

What the Twitter link in Freightlocate is for I really cant tell apart from saying there are updates but not much else. I would prefer some sort of Forum. The FL mark / function seems very little used, I have found no entries other than the few I uploaded to see how it works, rather disappointing but that may be because there are not many members and even less uploading sightings.

Both have their good points it all depends on what you want.

Will I renew in 6months only time will tell but for now its worth the money and hopefully it will improve.

 

[Aldaniti]

I agree with the above. Nothing against Freightmaster but I find Freightlocate offers a lot more for less money.

 

[Old Timer]

I agree with the above. Nothing against Freightmaster but I find Freightlocate offers a lot more for less money.

They are different products for different markets, used together they potentially bring a far greater benefit to people who are on a limited time or need to travel long distances to reach a particular location.

From what I can see there is no link to TRUST - as they are expecting the users to update the current train running database - and therefore I cannot see that there is an issue.

Other Railways in the world allow customers access to their train positioning systems and there is little extra information that will not be known to those will ill intent.

With regards to those with ill intent, their whole modus operandi is to operate in the shade and not draw attention to themselves - so they certainly won't wander around with cameras taking obvious photographs and they certainly wont be subscribing to websites which could be used to identify them in advance or after, or support a prosecution later, unless they are the lower end of the intellectual scale.

These boys might worship a Religion which is better placed in the Dark Ages but you can be certain that they are bang up to date with modern technonology by and large. It never pays to underestimate.

 

[Ferret]

I agree with the above. Nothing against Freightmaster but I find Freightlocate offers a lot more for less money.

Ah yes, but we never did establish the legality of their source of information though. I still maintain that it's not to be touched with a bargepole if you have any common sense.

 

[Bonemaster]

I think the argument about legality has entered a new phase its many months since the first trial versions went online and they are still there, from this I would deduce that either a) NR / Atos have no desire to shut them down, b) The information is legally obtained, or c) NR / Atos have no legal way of shutting them down.

It always has struck me with the product that FL are offering that they never thought of "leaching" information to add to the reliability of the product to ask paying customers to contribute as well is just taking the mick, or adding derived locations that are not always timing points.

My big issue is that if I had a product I was look to sell I would have the confidence to put my name to it, if only to give the purchaser confidence in the product. The current set up is illegal by not giving each partners name on the website, and the fact that this has been pointed out, yet nothing has changed is for me a big issue. If I pay out money I at least want an address that I can visit if someone decides to close down a subscription service, and there guarantee of money back if it folds is, as anyone with a basic knowledge or partnership law not worth the web space its published in (e.g. if a partnership is dissolved there is no entity to pay out any such guarantee).

I suspect the name(s) or the person or persons behind this will come out sooner or later given that now FL are advertising on at least one gen group they must have disclosed there identities to more people.

Personally I would exercise extreme caution if subscribing until whomever is behind this comes out and makes themselves known, and for this reason I won't be subscribing anytime soon, however as time goes on I'm sure that both the legality question and whom is behind this will become less and less of issues, and price may win through.

 

[46100ROYALSCOT]

If I pay out money I at least want an address that I can visit if someone decides to close down a subscription service, and there guarantee of money back if it folds is, as anyone with a basic knowledge or partnership law not worth the web space its published in (e.g. if a partnership is dissolved there is no entity to pay out any such guarantee).

I had shares in Northern Rock, I had an address and details of directors, I didn't get my money back. We are talking about £35 here, less than a ticket to the average Premiership football match or a meal out with the partner. As you said initially the legality doesn't seem to be a problem, the service has been around for about 3 months now and its still running. I will see what happens over the next 6 months and if it goes belly up believe me I will let the forum know.

 

[Bonemaster]

I had shares in Northern Rock, I had an address and details of directors, I didn't get my money back. We are talking about £35 here, less than a ticket to the average Premiership football match or a meal out with the partner. As you said initially the legality doesn't seem to be a problem, the service has been around for about 3 months now and its still running. I will see what happens over the next 6 months and if it goes belly up believe me I will let the forum know.

Comparing an investment where you have liability limited to your investment to payment for a service is nonsense. You buy shares knowing if the company goes belly up you loose your money if it does well you make money. This is a service, where you pay your money and expect a defined service in return.

Let me put it this way if you buy a TV tomorrow would you buy it from Tesco or a bloke in a pub car park, one where if it don't work will take it back, get a replacement or a refund; the other you wont see for dust although you got the product much cheaper.

 

[465fan]

I actually think FreightLocate is a darn sight better than Freightmaster.

 

[46100ROYALSCOT]

Comparing an investment where you have liability limited to your investment to payment for a service is nonsense. You buy shares knowing if the company goes belly up you loose your money if it does well you make money. This is a service, where you pay your money and expect a defined service in return.

Let me put it this way if you buy a TV tomorrow would you buy it from Tesco or a bloke in a pub car park, one where if it don't work will take it back, get a replacement or a refund; the other you wont see for dust although you got the product much cheaper.

You have missed my point completely. The point I was making is no matter how big the business / company are they can still go bust, OK Northern Rock may have been a bad example but I did not buy shares in Northern Rock expecting them to go bust they where a huge Estate Agents / Bank, so lets look at Flickr. Thousands if not tens of thousands of people subscribed to Flickr to have pictures hosted by them. Flickr went bust; no one got their money back. Flickr was a big business we had details of their business it didn’t help.
Lets get things right big businesses and small business can and do go bust everyday, just pick up a newspaper, we just have to take a chance. If Freightlocate is not for you that’s your business for some myself included are willing to give them a chance and as I said in my original post if they do go bust and I lose out I will report it to the forum.

 

[ushawk]

Ill be sitting it our for a few more months to decide whether so sign-up or not. Also wait for the price to possibly drop/better deals to be given as it is a lot of money at the moment.