Scotrail Franchise - Abellio

Blindtraveler · 5 Apr 2015

Could be handy for handy for a TOC Such as EMT, ATW or FGW wanting to offer a bit more than a trolley.

RailUK Forums

me123 · 5 Apr 2015

Failed Unit said:
In Scotland the smart cards are about as much use as a chocolate teapot. They only allow season ticket holders to speed up their journey. They have to tap in and out (why I don't know as a season ticket holder doesn't normally). I know that season tickets wear out, but they are certainly not using the technology to the potential.

For example no attempt was made by first to use the fraud magnet flexi-passes on the system. If they did the fruad would be gone instantly. Don't tap in? Pay full fare on the train! Don't tap out, the ticket is gone anyway because you tapped in. (or you can't get out the station at Edinburgh / Glasgow terminals). I will also make happier customers who don't need multiple bits of card or need to engrave the ticket with a date!

I am quite excited for Abellio's plans to roll out Smartcard ticketing, and I suspect that usage will increase markedly over the course of the franchise. I wonder if mobile ticketing will also become a reality, and would be very keen for this to be the case. I have noticed the validators are up and running, and I'm very hopeful they will become more useful in the near future.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Blindtraveler said:
Could be handy for handy for a TOC Such as EMT, ATW or FGW wanting to offer a bit more than a trolley.

Although with only four units equipped with a buffet, you are looking at a very small fleet. You'd have to modify other units to provide a consistent service, or restrict these trains to a specific route.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

thealexweb said:
If travelling on a smartcard and your Scotrail service is delayed, how do you apply for compensation. Also how are returns on unused tickets handled?

Presumably delay repay is actually quite easy. You have your smart card which knows then you've tapped in and tapped out, and can as such tell you when you entered your departure station and left your arrival station (I'm assuming that there will be a time stamp). Scotrail can therefore ascertain which service you've used. In fact, it's actually less open to fraud than using paper tickets.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Failed Unit said:
It was a lot more offical that that a few years ago, they wanted to offer a better level of catering on the service, hot bacon rolls for example. I am not quiet sure what happened in the end. I did hear the lack of bike space was a problem with the units (2 versus 4). Not sure if availability was also an issue as they need to make sure that 3/4 units were on the line daily and stuff happens. One of the diagrams it used to use is now a 4 car 158.

It sounds like the HSTs will offer enhanced on board catering provision (which sounds like the existing cafe-bar options on the ECML), so I'm looking forward to seeing this in action.

NotATrainspott · 5 Apr 2015

me123 said:
Although with only four units equipped with a buffet, you are looking at a very small fleet. You'd have to modify other units to provide a consistent service, or restrict these trains to a specific route

Aren't some of the 170s going to stay on Aberdeen-Inverness runs, running alongside the HSTs? If so, you wouldn't need that many of them, and I do believe it is a requirement for all stock on that route to have some higher level of onboard service provision. It wouldn't make much sense taking the buffets out of the ex-HT 170s and then fitting something similar to another set of them.

Fishplate84 · 5 Apr 2015

I don't get the smart card thing in Scotland. It works well in urban centres and London with the oyster where the journeys are only a couple of quid. For it to be any use in Scotland you'd have to load hundreds of pounds on it each time. There's no way I'm giving Scotrail hundreds of pounds of my money to bank and get interest on waiting for me to use it. And what if I lost the card?

If it were more a credit card and they invoiced me for my journeys, then I'd be more interested. I don't see why I should have to the be creditor. It isn't that much hassle buying a ticket.

Starmill · 5 Apr 2015

ScotRail selling their own Advance First has been a long time coming! Silly not doing so usually, given how empty it is.

That said First on a 158 in Scotland is a con!

me123 · 5 Apr 2015

Fishplate84 said:
I don't get the smart card thing in Scotland. It works well in urban centres and London with the oyster where the journeys are only a couple of quid. For it to be any use in Scotland you'd have to load hundreds of pounds on it each time. There's no way I'm giving Scotrail hundreds of pounds of my money to bank and get interest on waiting for me to use it. And what if I lost the card?

How much do you think rail travel costs up here? Greater Glasgow is undoubtedly the biggest benefactor, but tickets for travel elsewhere are generally pretty reasonable. They're looking at getting most if not all season tickets onto smart card technology, in addition to turn-up-and-go tickets.

I think the idea is ultimately towards a national smart card for Scotland, meaning that I can use it across the country and don't need to get another one for each city/town. I've also heard talks of using it to integrate multiple modes of transport, such as buses and trams. Although whether that will work in practice is another issue.

The cards in Scotland have a photograph on them, so it's more difficult to abuse it. I presume you can have the card de-activated if it is stolen, and the funds transferred to a new card.

Sadsmileyface · 5 Apr 2015

Fishplate84 said:
I don't get the smart card thing in Scotland. It works well in urban centres and London with the oyster where the journeys are only a couple of quid. For it to be any use in Scotland you'd have to load hundreds of pounds on it each time. There's no way I'm giving Scotrail hundreds of pounds of my money to bank and get interest on waiting for me to use it. And what if I lost the card?

If it were more a credit card and they invoiced me for my journeys, then I'd be more interested. I don't see why I should have to the be creditor. It isn't that much hassle buying a ticket.

Because not everyone would qualify for credit? Because ScotRail isn't a bank? Because there's no guarantee anyone would pay their bills? Because nobody currently has to take hundreds of pounds with them each time they travel in Scotland? Because it's less hassle to top up a smart card than wait in a queue each day?

Do you use chip and pin in shops? Because people said the exact same thing about that.

jopsuk · 5 Apr 2015

Smartcard can also be set up to allow traditional single & return type tickets to be loaded. They don't HAVE to work as a PAYG system. I'd imagine the set up will be fairly similar to the Dutch OV-chipkaart. Abellio may even know one or two people with experience with implementing that system...

GaryMcEwan · 5 Apr 2015

It would be good for me if Abellio and SPT were able to link the smartcards all together instead of at the moment having a smartcard for Subway and a paper ticket for the trains...

Sadsmileyface · 5 Apr 2015

GaryMcEwan said:
It would be good for me if Abellio and SPT were able to link the smartcards all together instead of at the moment having a smartcard for Subway and a paper ticket for the trains...

I think that by the end of the franchise, that absolutely will be in place.

Altnabreac · 5 Apr 2015

Sadsmileyface said:
I think that by the end of the franchise, that absolutely will be in place.

I understand that this is the easiest part of the one smartcard plan to implement and it should be up and running later this year.

jopsuk · 6 Apr 2015

that's certainly the Dutch system- one card that works on all public transport

LeeLivery · 6 Apr 2015

Quick question, what happened to ScotRail having a network map? I want to go Scotland in the future, I'm not very clued up on the network and there doesn't seem to be a map on their website anymore. Is there a up to date map of all ScotRail stations anywhere? The only one I can find is the map with every station in Britain and of course that isn't practical to bring around everywhere.

Class 170101 · 6 Apr 2015

Central Belt rail map
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/css/NetworkRail_GlasgowEdinburghmap.pdf

Rail Map UK with all stations on map
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/static/documents/content/routemaps/nationalrailoperatorsmapzoom.pdf

najaB · 6 Apr 2015

jopsuk said:
that's certainly the Dutch system- one card that works on all public transport

On the About Scotrail page of the website they say:

Scotrail website said:
Buying tickets will be quicker at ticket offices and youll be able to hold tickets for rail, many other public transport trips, car parking and cycle hire on a single Smartcard.

So there are definitely plans in that direction.

Blindtraveler · 6 Apr 2015

And this maybe how an Edinburgh Airport Add On from another Smartcard Station could become easier as smartcard is already used on the Tram.

codenamecuebal · 6 Apr 2015

clc said:
I've noticed a lot of new Smart ticket validators at stations in Glasgow and on the Oban line. Does anyone know when these will go live?

the vast majority are already live. you can load season tickets onto a smartcard at any TVM.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
onboard staff use the credit card readers to check and it fires back info to the avantix about what travel products are on the card

JaJaWa · 7 Apr 2015

LeeLivery said:
Quick question, what happened to ScotRail having a network map? I want to go Scotland in the future, I'm not very clued up on the network and there doesn't seem to be a map on their website anymore. Is there a up to date map of all ScotRail stations anywhere? The only one I can find is the map with every station in Britain and of course that isn't practical to bring around everywhere.

I asked them this the other day and got a fairly useless response. https://twitter.com/ScotRail/status/584410256480083968

I eventually found the map, on the Caledonian Sleeper website... https://www.sleeper.scot/templates/caledonian/media/route-maps/scotrailroutemap.pdf (or on the right here https://www.sleeper.scot/index.php/route-destinations/our-route)

Fishplate84 · 7 Apr 2015

Sadsmileyface said:
Because not everyone would qualify for credit? Because ScotRail isn't a bank? Because there's no guarantee anyone would pay their bills? Because nobody currently has to take hundreds of pounds with them each time they travel in Scotland? Because it's less hassle to top up a smart card than wait in a queue each day?

Do you use chip and pin in shops? Because people said the exact same thing about that.

But thats the point, it isn't a chip and pin machine taking money from my account is it. I have take money from my account, give it to ScotRail in the form of buying 'credit' to store on the card, then let that credit run down. Yes, there are some cheap tickets, but its nearly nearly £15 return each day for me to get to work. Going to Aberdeen is over £40 return, trains to Edinburgh for me are over £20. Not exactly £1.50 trips where a £30 top up might reasonably last a good while. I'd be topping it up after every journey unless I loaded hundreds of £££ on it. Having 'wave and pay' direct from a personal debit card would be more useful on longer distance routes rather than a smart card.

me123 · 7 Apr 2015

Fishplate84 said:
Having 'wave and pay' direct from a personal debit card would be more useful on longer distance routes rather than a smart card.

Given that the technology exists on TfL, it could be coming no far behind a smart card (although contactless has an upper limit, so there would be issues for more expensive journeys).

I wonder if the Scottish Smartcard, when used for single and return tickets, could have capping like Oyster does?

Scotrail88 · 8 Apr 2015

Probably not the best heading to be under but does anybody know what 'track improvements' are been done between Whifflet and Rutherglen this month when the line is closed at the weekends

Strange that work being done so soon after the line was closed for electrification.

Thanks in advance!

me123 · 8 Apr 2015

I suspect that it's this, although it could be argued that the improvements are more for the road users of the M8 rather than the train passengers.

387star · 8 Apr 2015

Abellio branding on a barbie 156:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/killie65/16427044463/

fgwrich · 9 Apr 2015

fgwrich said:
They should be in better condition - DRS has had all the Mk2s undergoing overhaul and repaint visiting Eastleigh Works also receiving an interior overhaul - some of them needed even more so having spent several years in store at BH and NH for Grand Central, including the re-instatement of the corridor gangway on the ex FGW BSO (FGW removed these and blanked them off during Motor Rail days).

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

In fact, looking at the coach numbers - the majority of these Scottish Mk2s are made up of an ex Riviera bunch - Ex VT, Anglia and ATW Mk2s, with further Ex VT & FGW ones to come and / or in the reserve rake.

jopsuk said:
How are they inside? I heard bad things about the DBS stock, is this in better condition?

I think it's quite possible that they are in a better condition than the rather unkempt DBS ones but looking at several pictures on the internet and Carl Watsons website, not as much as I thought appears to have been done on the inside of them. Some have had a full blue repaint before the application of the vinyl's, while others appear to have had a rub down + coat of primer applied before being wrapped into the ScotRail livery. I've not seen any pictures of the interiors, but one of Carl Watson's appears to show the Arriva interior still in one of the Mk2s.

But being fair to Eastleigh, DRS does appear to have given them quite a tight deadline - The work having been completed on March 27th!

http://carlswatson.com/Trains/Galle...03/20150327ArlingtonEastleighWorks/index.html

The DRS BSO appears however to have just been wrapped into DRS colours with ATW remaining underneath!

jopsuk · 9 Apr 2015

So is there one six-carriage set in Scotrail and a backup set in DRS colours?

clc · 9 Apr 2015

Magazine from Abellio:

http://www.abellio.com/sites/defaul...o_way_magazine_-_abellio_scotrail_edition.pdf

Confirms that new Hitachi trains will run on some south Glasgow suburban routes. So definitely not Airdrie - Bathgate as some posters had speculated.

fgwrich · 9 Apr 2015

jopsuk said:
So is there one six-carriage set in Scotrail and a backup set in DRS colours?

At the moment, yes. Ironically, The ScotRail set has been running around with DRS liveried 68004, with ScotRail 68007 on the DRS Set at the moment.

me123 · 9 Apr 2015

clc said:
Magazine from Abellio:

http://www.abellio.com/sites/defaul...o_way_magazine_-_abellio_scotrail_edition.pdf

Confirms that new Hitachi trains will run on some south Glasgow suburban routes. So definitely not Airdrie - Bathgate as some posters had speculated.

I would suggest Edinburgh - Glasgow via Carstairs could be a candidate. The units will be based at Millerhill in Edinburgh, so it would perhaps make sense for that route (and indeed the North Berwick runs) to be taken over by the new AT-200 trains, leaving the 380s to operate exclusively on the Ayrshire and Inverclyde routes (which could be enough to see the 314s withdrawn from these routes).

And from the Carstairs runs, the Lanark runs also look likely.

I can't really see any other routes that would naturally fall under the remit of the new trains?

PaxVobiscum · 9 Apr 2015

Scotrail88 said:
Probably not the best heading to be under but does anybody know what 'track improvements' are been done between Whifflet and Rutherglen this month when the line is closed at the weekends

Strange that work being done so soon after the line was closed for electrification.

Thanks in advance!

me123 said:
I suspect that it's this, although it could be argued that the improvements are more for the road users of the M8 rather than the train passengers.

Over the Easter weekend there was work going on in at least one other place as well - a small PW gang was busy on the line between Mt Vernon and Baillieston. Couldn't see what they were doing.

Gadget88 · 4 May 2015

Noticed some changes today:

*One class 370 had the new paint job as it had purple seats.
*The older trains not fitted with Wi-Fi now have been.
*When approaching Haymarket today the automated voice over said P&O ferries sounds like some form of advertising?
*The borders train has the Abellio logo looks better on the grey doors.
*They now mention trams, interchange stations.
*They apologise for no catering on local trains e.g Perth to Edinburgh.

Scotrail Franchise - Abellio

Established Member

RailUK Forums

Established Member

Established Member

Member

Veteran Member

Established Member

Member

Veteran Member

Established Member

Member

Established Member

Veteran Member

Established Member

Established Member

Veteran Member

Established Member

Member

Established Member

Member

Established Member

Member

Established Member

On Moderation

Established Member

Veteran Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Member