Are you really not allowed to pass on oyster season tickets to another person?

[samxool]

Mod Note: Split from this thread.

Giving or lending oyster cards that have annual season tickets on to other people is fare evasion, and if caught, the consequences can be quite severe.

what, really?
why is that? First time I have ever heard of this.
I have an annual zones 1-4 travel card on my oyster card, and I regularly lend it to my girlfriend when i'm not using it.
There's no photo ID or anything.
We have been doing this for a couple of years and I fail to see what the problem is. Its not like i'm going through the barrier, and then passing my card back over the barrier for my gf to then walk through and join me. She only gets to use it if I'm not using it.
Also, some of my workmates don't have season tickets and we regularly loan them our oyster cards to nip to the shops at lunch time, again as long as we are not using them.
The season ticket has been paid for, why does it matter who uses it? Its not fare evasion as they have a valid ticket which has been paid for (in this case paid for by me, even though I might not be the one doing the travelling). We do it all the time.
Plus, its on oyster card, so no way of knowing its not theirs.

 

[soil]

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/19799.aspx

"Oyster cards that have a Travelcard or Bus & Tram pass on it are non transferable. They cannot be used by anyone other than the registered owner. "

It seems fairly obvious to me that it's not allowed.

If I bought an 'unlimited pass' for the local buffet restaurant, they wouldn't be happy if I lent my pass to my friends and restaurants to go in and have their fill. Same applies.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2011/jun/11/tfl-fines-bus-passenger-oyster-card

 

[Mojo]

Oyster cards with a discount entitlement or a season ticket loaded must not be used by anyone other than who they were purchased for. This is stated in the conditions of carriage and a reminder that travel and use of Oyster cards and Paper tickets is subject to the conditions of carriage is printed on every Oyster card and Paper ticket.

I do not know the reason for only having one person use one card, but imagine that it exists for various reasons, from preventing ticket touting, to ensuring that if the Oyster card is ever misused (and a fair number are) then the appropriate authorities know who has caused it.

If your Oyster card contains an annual season ticket then it must also be registered. If a female presented a card registered in the name of Mr. Whoever then I'd say that's a fair indication it does not belong to her.

 

[yorksrob]

I suppose it's the issue of when the card 'maxes' out. Two passengers could do enough journeys in a day to reach the travelcard limit and obtain free travel when they're not entitled to it.

 

[yorkie]

I suppose it's the issue of when the card 'maxes' out. Two passengers could do enough journeys in a day to reach the travelcard limit and obtain free travel when they're not entitled to it.

I'm not sure what you mean by this? The ticket is a Travelcard, and a Travelcard is a product that is non-transferable. It happens to be loaded onto Oyster in this case.

Oyster PAYG is a different matter, and an Oyster card without a Travelcard loaded onto it, and without a discount loaded onto it, can be used by anyone, even if capped.

Oyster is a medium. Oyster PAYG is a product. Travelcard is a range of products. Although separate products, they can be mixed for journeys where appropriate.

So if two people wish to share the same Oyster card, they can do so with Oyster PAYG but they are not permitted to do so with a Travelcard loaded onto it.

 

[MikeWh]

I suppose it's the issue of when the card 'maxes' out. Two passengers could do enough journeys in a day to reach the travelcard limit and obtain free travel when they're not entitled to it.

But daily capping is allowed to be shared. It's only when the card has a season ticket or discount on it that you musn't share.

 

[yorksrob]

I'm not sure what you mean by this? The ticket is a Travelcard, and a Travelcard is a product that is non-transferable. It happens to be loaded onto Oyster in this case.

Oyster PAYG is a different matter, and an Oyster card without a Travelcard loaded onto it, and without a discount loaded onto it, can be used by anyone, even if capped.

Oyster is a medium. Oyster PAYG is a product. Travelcard is a range of products. Although separate products, they can be mixed for journeys where appropriate.

So if two people wish to share the same Oyster card, they can do so with Oyster PAYG but they are not permitted to do so with a Travelcard loaded onto it.

You're more knowledgeable than me, so I'll defer. Seems peculiar to me though.

 

[snail]

Paper travelcards and season tickets have always been marked 'non transferable'. This sounds like an extension of that policy, with a concession given to PAYG cards because they are the equivalent of single tickets (though the waters are muddied by the relatively recent addition of the daily cap).

 

[MikeWh]

Paper travelcards and season tickets have always been marked 'non transferable'. This sounds like an extension of that policy, with a concession given to PAYG cards because they are the equivalent of single tickets (though the waters are muddied by the relatively recent addition of the daily cap).

Oyster has always had a daily cap. Until Jan 2010 it was always less than the equivalent travelcard because acceptance on NR was patchy. Since Jan 2013 the differential has been re-introduced to encourage more use of Oyster.

 

[maniacmartin]

The season ticket has been paid for, why does it matter who uses it? Its not fare evasion as they have a valid ticket which has been paid for (in this case paid for by me, even though I might not be the one doing the travelling).

You have paid for travel for a single person. By lending the ticket to others, you are defrauding the railway out of the revenue they'd get from those other people paid for their own tickets.

 

[Crossover]

Quick semi-related question. If you have a discount applied to a Oyster PAYG, can you let someone borrow it who also has the same discount as is applied (e.g. 16-25 railcard)?

 

[Zoidberg]

Quick semi-related question. If you have a discount applied to a Oyster PAYG, can you let someone borrow it who also has the same discount as is applied (e.g. 16-25 railcard)?

OYSTER says "NO".

You can give your Oyster card to someone else

If your Oyster only has pay as you go credit at adult rate on it you can let someone else use it, even if the card is registered in your name.

An Oyster card cannot be used by anyone other than the registered user if it holds a:

Travelcard or Bus & Tram Pass season ticket
Jobcentre Plus Travel Discount
Bus & Tram discount
National Railcard discount

from: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/19798.aspx

 

[Nym]

Quick semi-related question. If you have a discount applied to a Oyster PAYG, can you let someone borrow it who also has the same discount as is applied (e.g. 16-25 railcard)?

No.

(Pointless words added.)

 

[barrykas]

Quick semi-related question. If you have a discount applied to a Oyster PAYG, can you let someone borrow it who also has the same discount as is applied (e.g. 16-25 railcard)?

Under the Oyster Ts&Cs, no...Although the discount is recorded as "NR Railcard", the expiry date is recorded as well, and that would be unlikely to match unless you both bought a Railcard on the same day.

 

[yorkie]

Officially, no.

Although the discount is recorded as "NR Railcard", the expiry date is recorded as well, and that would be unlikely to match unless you both bought a Railcard on the same day.

But the railcard expiry date itself isn't an issue, as you could have lost your Railcard and purchased a replacement (either because you lost it twice, or the receipt was also lost).

 

[barrykas]

But the railcard expiry date itself isn't an issue, as you could have lost your Railcard and purchased a replacement (either because you lost it twice, or the receipt was also lost).

In such a case, you should go to a Ticket Office and get the expiry date updated I believe, as an RPI would almost certainly query the dates not matching.

 

[Mojo]

In such a case, you should go to a Ticket Office and get the expiry date updated I believe, as an RPI would almost certainly query the dates not matching.

I'd be surprised if an Inspector ever saw the date; I've just checked and it requires the "next" button to be pressed several times on the MOVie (Mobile Oyster Viewer that Inspectors and station staff carry) to view anything other than the fact a NR discount is applied.

I certainly wouldn't ever look into it if someone presented me with a Railcard when requested as I feel that there are perhaps bigger fish to fry. But obviously YMMV, especially with Tocs, and I could not condone what is technically a breach of conditions. Not sure though that I've ever read if there is a requirement to update your Railcard when it's replaced after being lost.

 

[tsr]

...and a Travelcard is a product that is non-transferable...

Forgive me if I sound a tiny bit silly, but I believe a one-day paper-ticket Travelcard is transferable (provided any discount applied is also available to the person to whom it is transferred). Am I wrong?

 

[CNash]

You have paid for travel for a single person. By lending the ticket to others, you are defrauding the railway out of the revenue they'd get from those other people paid for their own tickets.

But only one person can carry and use an individual Oyster card at any given time. A single person is still making the journey, just not the same single person that bought the Travelcard. And "defrauding" is a bit of a strong word to use, I would think - it's a breach of Oyster T&Cs, leading to a standard "travelling without a valid ticket" prosecution, not fraud.

 

[Urban Gateline]

Forgive me if I sound a tiny bit silly, but I believe a one-day paper-ticket Travelcard is transferable (provided any discount applied is also available to the person to whom it is transferred). Am I wrong?

Yes you are wrong, no paper tickets are transferable! This is why touting of tickets (especially Travelcards) is not allowed!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

But only one person can carry and use an individual Oyster card at any given time. A single person is still making the journey, just not the same single person that bought the Travelcard. And "defrauding" is a bit of a strong word to use, I would think - it's a breach of Oyster T&Cs, leading to a standard "travelling without a valid ticket" prosecution, not fraud.

No, I actually agree with ManiacMartin...despite only one person using this Travelcard at a time, the Travelcard is ONLY for use by the person it was purchased for and NOBODY else!

Any Journeys made by someone else who is not entitled to use that Travelcard, is depriving the TOC or LUL of potential revenue as that person would have had to buy their own ticket to make the same Journey.
The wording may be harsh, but it is the truth, I would even go as far as to say that one could be in breach of ROR Act 5.3a as there is intent shown to avoid payment of the fare due by using someone else's ticket to which they are not enitled to.

 

[tony_mac]

In such a case, you should go to a Ticket Office and get the expiry date updated I believe, as an RPI would almost certainly query the dates not matching.

I have not heard of, and cannot find, anything which advises passengers to do this.
It's not that uncommon - it's pretty normal for people to renew "early" in their last year of eligibility; I certainly did.

 

[John @ home]

no paper tickets are transferable!

This is incorrect. East Coast Rewards tickets are transferable.

Rewards > Rewards and benefits > Free Travel Tickets Terms and Conditions

14. Rewards tickets are transferable and can be booked for someone else.

http://www.eastcoast.co.uk/east-coa...s-points/travel-tickets-terms-and-conditions/

Neither the Conditions of Use printed on the back of a West Yorkshire DayRover ticket, nor the longer version printed on pages 22-23 of Metro booklet MT-005 "Save Money with MetroCard, MetroDay, DayRover, MetroRover" (Jan 2013) prohibit transfer of the ticket. It has been reported on this forum that the transferability featured as part of an advertising campaign.

There may well be other examples.

 

[oversteer]

LM's 'sorry we were so terrible in late 2012' tickets are transferable.

 

[maniacmartin]

There's a big difference between "can be booked for someone else" and "can be used by one person and then also used by another person"

 

[michael769]

Virtually all rail tickets can be bought for someone else - but that is quite different from people sharing the same ticket .

 

[34D]

This is incorrect. East Coast Rewards tickets are transferable.

Neither the Conditions of Use printed on the back of a West Yorkshire DayRover ticket, nor the longer version printed on pages 22-23 of Metro booklet MT-005 "Save Money with MetroCard, MetroDay, DayRover, MetroRover" (Jan 2013) prohibit transfer of the ticket. It has been reported on this forum that the transferability featured as part of an advertising campaign.

There may well be other examples.

Also in west yorkshire-land it is possible to buy a Pool Metrocard which is issued in the name of a company, and validated by that employers photo ID card being shown with it. Perhaps there are other things around the country?

 

[bb21]

Certain TOCs offer Impersonal Season Tickets ('Bearer Passes') which can be transferred between, usually, representatives of an organisation.

 

[Fare-Cop]

Yes you are wrong, no paper tickets are transferable! This is why touting of tickets (especially Travelcards) is not allowed!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


No, I actually agree with ManiacMartin...despite only one person using this Travelcard at a time, the Travelcard is ONLY for use by the person it was purchased for and NOBODY else!

Any Journeys made by someone else who is not entitled to use that Travelcard, is depriving the TOC or LUL of potential revenue as that person would have had to buy their own ticket to make the same Journey.
The wording may be harsh, but it is the truth, I would even go as far as to say that one could be in breach of ROR Act 5.3a as there is intent shown to avoid payment of the fare due by using someone else's ticket to which they are not enitled to.

Yes, absolutely correct.

For clarification, it's probably worth noting the words given in the judgment in the appeal case of Browning v Floyd (1946) which dealt with the transfer of a season ticket and a conviction for 'fare evasion' under S.5 of The Regulation of Railways Act [1889]. This is the usual reference for such prosecutions

In the case of the traveller who uses someone else's ticket, the railway may not have lost any money, but that traveller has not paid his fare.

 

[island]

Certain TOCs offer Impersonal Season Tickets ('Bearer Passes') which can be transferred between, usually, representatives of an organisation.

At a fat premium to the normal season price, of course!

 

[samxool]

i would just like to add, clearly oyster season tickets are non-transferable, so I've stopped handing my oyster card out. My gf is kinda miffed and thinks this rule is ridiculous, but then this is a girl whose photo driving licence is almost 3 years out of date, and she refuses to pay £20 to get it updated.

anyways, i didn't realise it was wrong, i can see where they are coming from with this rule now, not sure I entirely agree with it, but rules are rules, and I'm being a good boy now!