Arriva CrossCountry contract extended through to October 2019

[YorkshireBear]

It's a direct award three year extension, I don't see why everyone is acting so surprised at the paltry changes. The EMT and West Coast ones didn't have any rolling stock changes either.

The free wifi everywhere and slightly more use out of the HSTs was the high-water mark for my expectations, so I'm quite pleased.

Yep same here. All the direct awards that have involved big changes have been on routes that are going through major changes such as FGW.

This is actually better than i expected which was a status quo. At least they have said right HSTs are going to have to last until after DDA rather than the bombshell of XC not having any come 2020. And an extra two voyager carriages. More extensive use of HSTs is also welcomed.

I think some people are getting a bit greedy after recent franchise announcements.

 

[WatcherZero]

So funding for more HST's to be deployed each day, reformed voyagers.
Door mods which ive heard quoted as £30k a coach probably an acceptable short term alternative to completely new trains when the insinuation is they are expecting cascaded stock delayed by electrification delays.

Cross country will trial more energy efficent air conditioning which if a sucess will be rolled out nationally.

Wifi the paid system could never handle the demand of being completely free especielly as its 5 years old so they will need to replace it with a higher capacity system.

 

[47802]

Yep same here. All the direct awards that have involved big changes have been on routes that are going through major changes such as FGW.

This is actually better than i expected which was a status quo. At least they have said right HSTs are going to have to last until after DDA rather than the bombshell of XC not having any come 2020. And an extra two voyager carriages. More extensive use of HSTs is also welcomed.

I think some people are getting a bit greedy after recent franchise announcements.

Well yes and no bearing mind any new franchise is likely to take at least a couple of years after the award ie 2021 to make changes, its a distinctly paltry increase, a couple of extra HST's and maybe a couple of 170's from Anglia wouldn't have gone amiss even if they wouldn't be available until near the end of the direct award.

 

[Starmill]

CrossCountry's Turbostars were all fitted with wifi not so long ago.

 

[OwlMan]

Neil Williams: Waiving the £10 Advance change fee? What's the point in doing that? You might as well then just book as early as possible and keep doing changes until you're happy, which isn't really all that helpful to the TOC as they don't genuinely know when you're going to travel.

Actually, I suppose, considering another thread, it does make the Advance more of a tool to get people to use specific trains without complexity rather than a tool to encourage advance booking. Interesting...

As XC do not run any booking offices I can not see this making much difference.

 

[Bletchleyite]

As XC do not run any booking offices I can not see this making much difference.

A lot of people, possibly most people, book online these days.

 

[najaB]

I think they do. It has been a year or so since I've been on a 170 so not 100% sure, but their website does state "Enjoy WiFi on all CrossCountry trains".

I guess then that the 'by 2018' refers to the 4G part of the quote rather than the free wifi part.

 

[All Line Rover]

Confirms extra capacity comes from greater use of HST's which will be fitted with sliding doors, and having 3x4 Car Voyagers to replace 2x5 Car Voyagers using the spare driving cars.

Even shorter trains? Hooray!
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Why all this sudden interest in Morpeth? First Groups proposed Scottish services from Kings X, then TPx. This was followed by extra VTEC from December & now this.

More calls at Tamworth would be far more useful than more calls at Morpeth.
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Didn't spot the per year! That is bad! Hardly any change there and over crowding continues for at least another 3+ years.

I always take these figures with a pinch of salt. Far more informative would be the percentage increase on the number of seats available each week.

 

[adrock1976]

Regarding 221144, would an idea be for VTWC to put it back how it was before (with the other former 4 car 221s), and swap the same number of them for ICXC's Class 221 5 car sets?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

What a surprise, nothing about the Brum to Stansted and Leicester line. The sooner this service is given to a TOC that gives a toss the better. As for Voyagers, I took a Voyager between Tamworth and Leeds (return) over the last few days. It was fine but I had a reserved table seat. The only problem with them is that they are at least 2 carriages short. If Virgin had to lengthen a bunch of Pendos for their direct award why not XC and Voyagers?

You do realise the Pendolino extension project (106 vehicles) was a DfT project, having refused Virgin's repeated offers to do it (with a franchise extension the DfT would not contemplate)?
VT were then contracted to deliver it by 2012, but the order was placed by the DfT much like the IEP order.

Equally, Arriva are only doing the DfT's bidding on the new franchise, who have evidently decided basically "no change" until the full rebid in 2019 (where major investment is likely).
One item in the announcement is that Arriva will pay a (small) premium of £163m over the 3 years.
That's a big improvement over the heavy losses of VXC and AXC previously.

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The DfT's annual seats calculation may just be the 2 Voyager cars then, because all those HST seats already exist, they just don't get used much.

If the 39,000 per year is the 'extra' Voyager, but there are other extra seats from higher HST utilisation, perhaps the latter cannot happen while the existing HSTs are being modified, so they aren't included in the DfT figures for Dec 17, and will come later?

The faster journey times Birmingham-Manchester may free up a Voyager because of earlier turn-rounds in Manchester.
Every little helps...

The 221 power cars are little more than half-cars in a passenger sense (42 seats I think).

 

[HowardGWR]

Do the XC HSTs already have sealed emission toilets and one of them being for disabled pax?

 

[The Planner]

The faster journey times Birmingham-Manchester may free up a Voyager because of earlier turn-rounds in Manchester.
Every little helps...

You are assuming they will turn back earlier and not just absorb it. I can see where the time comes northbound as it is all about getting infront of the Pendo at Stone, southbound im not so sure....

 

[TheBigD]

...The faster journey times Birmingham-Manchester may free up a Voyager because of earlier turn-rounds in Manchester.
Every little helps...

Doubt that... Currently the xx38ish arrival does the xx07 departure and the xx58ish does the xx27... You'd need a more than a few minutes off the journey tome to save a unit unless 5-10 minute turn rounds are permitted...

 

[The Growl]

More modern trains? The last time I checked, the voyagers were pretty young.

 

[Robertj21a]

Doubt that... Currently the xx38ish arrival does the xx07 departure and the xx58ish does the xx27... You'd need a more than a few minutes off the journey tome to save a unit unless 5-10 minute turn rounds are permitted...

Why can't the turn rounds be reduced a bit ? Obviously there may be a bit of cleaning to be done but if Ryanair can have a plane emptied and refilled with passengers with a 25 mins turn round then I don't see why XC can't do it in, say 15-20 mins.

 

[TheKnightWho]

More modern trains? The last time I checked, the voyagers were pretty young.

I think it means more trains that are modern, rather than trains that are more modern.

 

[swt_passenger]

The 221 power cars are little more than half-cars in a passenger sense (42 seats I think).

They can still double count them. What goes up must come down. In a railway sense...

 

[TheBigD]

Why can't the turn rounds be reduced a bit ? Obviously there may be a bit of cleaning to be done but if Ryanair can have a plane emptied and refilled with passengers with a 25 mins turn round then I don't see why XC can't do it in, say 15-20 mins.

It's not just a bit though is it??? To get the current xx38ish arrival to do the current xx27ish departure you need to save a minimum of 20 minutes... Whilst getting the xx38ish arrival in front of the Pendolino at Stone could save you 10 minutes, looking at the other times I don't see where that much more time savings can come from...

The Rules of the Route/Plan (not 100% sure which) will specify the minimum turn round times for long distance services at Piccadilly...

I'm sure 'The Planner' could explain it a bit better than I have though...

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

It's not just a bit though is it??? To get the current xx38ish arrival to do the current xx27ish departure you need to save a minimum of 20 minutes... Whilst getting the xx38ish arrival in front of the Pendolino at Stone could save you 10 minutes, looking at the other times I don't see where that much more time savings can come from...
The Rules of the Route/Plan (not 100% sure which) will specify the minimum turn round times for long distance services at Piccadilly...
I'm sure 'The Planner' could explain it a bit better than I have though...

Presumably somebody in NR has approved the statement about journey time reductions.
It does only mention northbound, though the public would assume it meant both ways.
Squeezing an extra Voyager out is not to be sneezed at.
No doubt paths around Birmingham come into it too.
XC spend a lot of time hanging around New St to fit in its paths.
VT turn them round at Chester in 22 minutes.

 

[Starmill]

I think some people are getting a bit greedy after recent franchise announcements.

I think the point is that most franchises that are having a major overhaul are doing it to increase quality and improve the service where it doesn't exist, such as East Coast and Anglia. XC, unlike those which are going through natural change and improvement, has key pressing problems that need sorting out and are being ignored.

 

[TheBigD]

Presumably somebody in NR has approved the statement about journey time reductions.
It does only mention northbound, though the public would assume it meant both ways.
Squeezing an extra Voyager out is not to be sneezed at.
No doubt paths around Birmingham come into it too.
XC spend a lot of time hanging around New St to fit in its paths.
VT turn them round at Chester in 22 minutes.

I don't disagree with the above points... I just don't think that they can save a Voyager from this run... I just don't see where enough time saving will come from...

 

[XCTurbostar]

This Direct Award appears to be stabbing passengers on CDF-NOT and BHM-LEI-SSD in the back. Unless the timetable increases services by adding another LEI stopper e.g. 1212, 1232 1252 services from BHM? I cant see there being any improvements at all for the next 3 years..

My Enthusiast side can't help thinking this could be in preparation for some of these services to go over to the East Midlands Franchisee?

Thanks,
Ross

 

[Tracked]

39,000 per year...107 per day - that's just one extra MK3 coach on a HST rake doing one journey in each peek period. That's not exactly pushing the boat out, is it...?

Could it just mean putting the fold-down seats back in the vestibules?

 

[J-2739]

This is kinda depressing and also frustrating. Somehow, I can see the people at Arriva, smiling their heads off, pleased that they can continue treating the CrossCountry routes with poisonous daggers.

20 million really isn't enough to buy a totally new fleet of IETs. Of course they would contribute to a decent refurbishment, and I wish Arriva well with this, but even then, they'd still be the same old Bombardier, short formed units.

 

[Butts]

No mention about the lack of XC catering in Scotland or Cornwall.

Agreed - or free booze in 1st Class

 

[The Planner]

It's not just a bit though is it??? To get the current xx38ish arrival to do the current xx27ish departure you need to save a minimum of 20 minutes... Whilst getting the xx38ish arrival in front of the Pendolino at Stone could save you 10 minutes, looking at the other times I don't see where that much more time savings can come from...

The Rules of the Route/Plan (not 100% sure which) will specify the minimum turn round times for long distance services at Piccadilly...

I'm sure 'The Planner' could explain it a bit better than I have though...

And that is the crux of it, they are "minimum" turnarounds, doesn't mean they have to use it. The Southampton/Bomo normally interworks the Bristol/South West back and vice versa. Even if you saved 10 minutes then I doubt XC would want to run a South West to a South West with a 18ish minute turnaround.

 

[6Gman]

Could it just mean putting the fold-down seats back in the vestibules?

Or squeezing some seats into the redundant shop areas?

 

[Class 170101]

All in all I also think its underwhelming. The DfT have clearly gone for the money rather than passenger improvements.

It would possibly indicate that the DfT do not expect to subsidise this franchise going forward into the next competition period.

 

[jayah]

39,000 per year...107 per day - that's just one extra MK3 coach on a HST rake doing one journey in each peek period. That's not exactly pushing the boat out, is it...?

That's one HST making a round trip once a week, for 39 weeks a year. Or perhaps they are putting in two seats instead of one of the cycle lockers?

Either way **** poor doesn't get close.

Do they seriously expect to get 'customer satisfaction' when that is all they are going to do for the next 3 years.
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It's slightly frustrating that the DfT didn't have the foresight to specify at the beginning of the Crosscountry franchise that XC received the three other 4-car 221s while two extra 5-car 221s went to Virgin West Coast, instead of the subsequent chopping and changing of formations that we've seen to (eventually) achieve the same result nearly ten years down the line.

Slightly frustrating!

They also canned the Project Thor that would actually have delivered something meaningful.
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On the subject of Wifi, for me as a passenger it's hugely important. Contracts with sufficient 4G data to be able to use it properly over a month are still relatively expensive as the networks are trying to push it as being a premium product we should be grateful to them for. Despite o2 and 3's claims, the network for 3G/4G data is still very patchy, especially on the move, and using data drains phone battery almost as much as playing games.

In other words, without Wifi on the train, if I wanted to use my laptop for emailing or whatever, I'd have to have my phone using valuable expensive data to create a personal hotspot, which doesn't always work properly anyway even between a macbook and iphone, whilst my phone's battery drains at a rate that would see it dead in about 2.5 hours. Add in taking a call or similar and all of a sudden my phone's dead before I've reached my destination.

I don't see why, what is in reality a tiny minority, think they are entitled to all this free data? The railway never provided free phone calls after all. Perhaps if you are paying top dollar in First Class but otherwise beyond getting a signal it should end there.

If these contracts are expensive then someone, somewhere is paying and paying lots. If phone battery is an issue, get a dongle.

 

[jopsuk]

So that's now three franchises that will be running power-door, post 2020 compliant HSTs...