Blackpool - Manchester Electrification

[Mordac]

Is the limit of electrification the junction where the line to Todmorden branches off?

 

[td97]

makes me think if they have enough units

Was thinking that myself. There's been several 2 car DMU vice EMU formations this week (mainly on Chat Moss). With late 331s and clearly no spare 319s, how exactly are Northern going to add 5 or so extra EMU diagrams?

 

[deltic08]

However works may still be undertaken on the Neville Hill to Colton junction section to close that electrification gap.

Not until the curve at Church Fenton is upgraded to 100mph first.

 

[Trapper]

The limit of electrification is Bromley Street Junction 29 chains (658 yards) from Manchester Victoria datum point.

 

[Llama]

The overhead wires going up to miles platting are now live as well as platforms 1 and 2;

https://t.co/Ta3HB2eYQ2

Not yet they are not, considering there is no catenary into 1 & 2. The rest of it is covered with earth straps.

But now that the energisation notice is published, it is to be considered live.

 

[42626]

A reminder that WCML services coming down the PRE-BON line tomorrow:

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced/BLK/2019/04/20/0000-2359?stp=V&show=pass&order=wtt

 

[Bovverboy]

The overhead wires going up to miles platting are now live as well as platforms 1 and 2;

https://t.co/Ta3HB2eYQ2

The new section of overhead wiring doesn't go anywhere near Miles Platting, I don't think. What is there is scheduled to go live from 19.15 hours on Sunday, but in respect of platforms 1 & 2 at Victoria, the wiring isn't even up yet. That was the situation at 17.00 hrs this evening.

 

[Bovverboy]

Was thinking that myself. There's been several 2 car DMU vice EMU formations this week (mainly on Chat Moss).

Any chance of quoting dates/times when there has been DMU substitution on Chat Moss? I hadn't been aware that there had been any. It seems strange that substitution would be on Chat Moss, since it would make more sense for the Bolton corridor duties, if any, to be covered by DMUs, since they're running to DMU timings anyway.

With late 331s and clearly no spare 319s, how exactly are Northern going to add 5 or so extra EMU diagrams?

I don't think that the 20 May diagrams will require any more 319s. I reckon that nine will be needed on the Bolton corridor (compared to the three in use at the moment) but those extra six will be more than offset by the four which won't be needed on Airport - Blackpool (via Wigan), the two which won't be needed on Picc - Hazel Grove, and the one which won't be needed on Preston - Blackpool.

 

[Bovverboy]

I don't think that the 20 May diagrams will require any more 319s. I reckon that nine will be needed on the Bolton corridor (compared to the three in use at the moment)

Sorry, my mistake, it will be eleven diagrams on the Bolton corridor, so that's an increase of one on the present. I haven't gone through the diagrams with a tooth comb, and I haven't gone through the 323 diagrams at all, so there may be a saving of one diagram somewhere else.

 

[Greybeard33]

Sorry, my mistake, it will be eleven diagrams on the Bolton corridor, so that's an increase of one on the present. I haven't gone through the diagrams with a tooth comb, and I haven't gone through the 323 diagrams at all, so there may be a saving of one diagram somewhere else.

Additionally there is a temporary Airport to Preston via Wigan 319 diagram from May, as partial cover for the non-availability of 195s for the Barrow service.

But I have heard a rumour that the two Victoria - Preston diagrams are to be DMU worked initially, which will mean no net increase in EMU diagrams.

The flip side is that the DMU fleet will likely be even more stretched than now, with the two 185s going back to TPE. Presumably some Pacers/Sprinters will be sent to Leeds in exchange for the 158s that are being brought over temporarily to work the Airport to Barrow/Windermere services.

 

[td97]

Any chance of quoting dates/times when there has been DMU substitution on Chat Moss? I hadn't been aware that there had been any. It seems strange that substitution would be on Chat Moss, since it would make more sense for the Bolton corridor duties, if any, to be covered by DMUs, since they're running to DMU timings anyway.

Ones I can think of:

• One diagram today on Liverpool - Wigan stopper
• One on Thursday on the peak Chat Moss stopper from Victoria at around 1900
• Around 2-3 diagrams at the start of the week on Crewe - Lime Street stoppers

Lately, a lot of the 319s I've used have been sounding worse for wear mechanically. Failures are therefore unsurprising for a train not famed for stellar reliability in the first place.
There was previously more slack in the fleet with some of the /4s destined to become 769s available for use, but these have disappeared to the forgotten abyss at Loughborough
Edit: To add to the above, was checking JourneyCheck for my train later and happened to notice a Liverpool-Crewe diagram has been updated to show a DMU substitution for the rest of the day.

 

[42626]

Think these WCML diversions might be the first two service trains down the Preston-Bolton-Manchester line.

 

[SansHache]

A few photos of Class 350s and Class 390s on diverted services at Clifton this afternoon. All of the services I saw that would normally be worked by 319s were operated by DMUs, possibly to limit the loading on the power supply with the additional electric services operating?

 

[59CosG95]

All of the services I saw that would normally be worked by 319s were operated by DMUs, possibly to limit the loading on the power supply with the additional electric services operating?

Yes, that would be the case - the 350s & 390s have a much larger power draw than the 319s do, and the G.E.L. has yet to go live. Once it does, electric services will be very commonplace indeed.

 

[Bertie the bus]

There were plenty of 319s on the Bolton line. In fact think there might have been more than usual - 4 instead of 3. I can't state that as a fact but there were at least the usual 3.

 

[td97]

All of the services I saw that would normally be worked by 319s were operated by DMUs,

100% saw a 319 on 2K52. It was waiting at Bolton P3 when 2 390s unexpectedly passed within minutes. Was actually going to comment myself that the power supply and transmission seems to be holding up, even with the diverted EMUs (but with less power required on the WCML south of Preston).
Great photos too!

 

[Greybeard33]

The diverted trains would surely have been drawing power from the same Grid Feeder (Parkside) as if they were on the WCML as usual. So no need for the Great Extension Lead from Heyrod.

 

[mikemcniven]

So Virgin Trains and Transpennine Express are over this Bank Holiday weekend utilising the Bolton line electrification, running non-stop via Bolton. This is the first Virgin Trains in passenger services running under their own power via Bolton, not the first for Transpennine Express however.

390138 'City of London' just north of Kearsley station on a service to Lancaster


Virgin Trains 390138 by Mike McNiven, on Flickr

350404 rounding the curve at Bolton on a service to Manchester Airport


Transpennine Express 350404 by Mike McNiven, on Flickr

390042 rounding the curve at Bolton on a service to Birmingham International


Virgin Trains 390042 by Mike McNiven, on Flickr

Transpennine Express 350402 north of Kearsley on a service to Manchester Airport


Transpennine Express 350402 by Mike McNiven, on Flickr

Virgin 221143 at Kearsley on a service to Birmingham International


Virgin Trains 221143 by Mike McNiven, on Flickr

350407 at Moses Gate on a service to Manchester Airport


Transpennine Express 350407 by Mike McNiven, on Flickr

390126 seen at Moses Gate on a service to Lancaster


Virgin Trains 390126 by Mike McNiven, on Flickr

 

[Ianno87]

Great photos - thanks for sharing!

 

[Bovverboy]

But I have heard a rumour that the two Victoria - Preston diagrams are to be DMU worked initially, which will mean no net increase in EMU diagrams.

There wouldn't be much sense in extending the Vic - Buckshaw services to Preston and then running them with DMUs when the whole point of running them to Buckshaw in the first place was to enable them to be DMU-operated. Are you suggesting that the services are going to remain Buckshaw-terminating for the time being?

 

[Ianno87]

There wouldn't be much sense in extending the Vic - Buckshaw services to Preston and then running them with DMUs when the whole point of running them to Buckshaw in the first place was to enable them to be DMU-operated. Are you suggesting that the services are going to remain Buckshaw-terminating for the time being?

If EMUs are introduced on other services, that would free up the extra DMU necessary for the extension to Preston.

 

[Greybeard33]

There wouldn't be much sense in extending the Vic - Buckshaw services to Preston and then running them with DMUs when the whole point of running them to Buckshaw in the first place was to enable them to be DMU-operated. Are you suggesting that the services are going to remain Buckshaw-terminating for the time being?

I am not suggesting anything, merely repeating a rumour posted by a Northern employee on another forum.

RTT still shows the Vic - Preston services timed for 319s, with very short turnarounds at Preston. I concur that Sprinters would struggle to keep to these timings.

I do not understand why Northern could not obtain two or three of Porterbrook's stored 319s on a short term lease, and send the bill to CAF!

 

[LeylandLen]

There wouldn't be much sense in extending the Vic - Buckshaw services to Preston and then running them with DMUs when the whole point of running them to Buckshaw in the first place was to enable them to be DMU-operated. Are you suggesting that the services are going to remain Buckshaw-terminating for the time being?

A crossover was installed between Buckshaw and WCML at Euxton Junction so as to avoid conflicts of services with WCML , therefore I assume Buckshaw will be a terminating station ideally using EMUs in the long term plan as and when there are enough EMUs to operate the stand-alone service.?

 

[superkev]

Yes, that would be the case - the 350s & 390s have a much larger power draw than the 319s do, and the G.E.L. has yet to go live. Once it does, electric services will be very commonplace indeed.

Anyone have a date for the completion of the great extension lead.
K

 

[AMD]

Additionally there is a temporary Airport to Preston via Wigan 319 diagram from May, as partial cover for the non-availability of 195s for the Barrow service.

The workings via Wigan will be 158 worked, as training is currently taking place to make this happen. It's still 319s planned on the Vic - Preston run to maintain the timings required.

 

[Bovverboy]

A crossover was installed between Buckshaw and WCML at Euxton Junction so as to avoid conflicts of services with WCML , therefore I assume Buckshaw will be a terminating station ideally using EMUs in the long term plan as and when there are enough EMUs to operate the stand-alone service.?

I'm not aware that there's a long-term plan to terminate services at Buckshaw Parkshaw. Doing so was a quick fix to an undesirable situation.

 

[Greybeard33]

The workings via Wigan will be 158 worked, as training is currently taking place to make this happen. It's still 319s planned on the Vic - Preston run to maintain the timings required.

I know the (reduced) Airport - Barrow/Windermere via Wigan services are to be worked by 158s until July. However, the diagram I was referring to consists entirely of short workings under the wires between Preston and the Airport via Wigan. It starts with 1U90, the 0607 Preston to Airport, http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y60165/2019/05/29/advanced, and ends with 1T59, the 1929 Airport to Preston, http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/S57592/2019/05/29/advanced. The associated ECS working 5T59, 2039 Preston to Preston Croft Street Sidings, is loaded as a 319, http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/S57601/2019/05/29/advanced. This seems odd if this STP service will really be worked by a 158.

Are you sure enough 158s are coming to the North West to work this diagram as well as the Barrow/Windermere ones?

 

[Ken H]

Surely barrow -Airport route is made for 769's. Electric from airport to carnforth (Plat 1 needs wiring). Pretty flat from there to barrow

 

[Bertie the bus]

The Furness line has nothing to do with Blackpool – Manchester electrification and neither do 769s. Please keep your growing obsession with putting commuter spec trains on long distance routes to the relevant threads.

 

[Bovverboy]

If EMUs are introduced on other services, that would free up the extra DMU necessary for the extension to Preston.

I think we've established that the May changes won't release any noticeable number of DMUs, or perhaps even any at all.

Greybeard33 has made the best point (#9867), no operator has any excuse for being short of EMUs, there are plenty off-lease at the moment - relevant to Northern, particularly, 319s.