Caledonian Sleeper bidders named

[marks87]

First
Arriva Night Trains
Serco

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-23105287

Caledonian sleeper train service bidders named

Three firms are in the running to take over the Caledonian sleeper train service, the Scottish government has announced.

Aberdeen-based First Group, which already runs the service, is facing competition from Arriva Night Trains and Serco.

The Caledonian franchise connects Inverness, Fort William, Aberdeen, Edinburgh and Glasgow to London.

The new 15-year franchise is expected to start in April 2015...

(read more)

When is the franchise due to start? The main article says 2015, but the caption under the (horribly generic) photo says "next year".

 

[sonic2009]

Arriva Night Trains :P I can imagine this being a Voyager

 

[telstarbox]

What is the benefit of having the sleeper services in a separate franchise rather than the Scotrail franchise?

 

[WillPS]

What is the benefit of having the sleeper services in a separate franchise rather than the Scotrail franchise?

What's the benefit of having it as part of the Scotrail franchise? There are no other similar services in the Scotrail network, half or more of the journey is outside the ScotRail map, the rolling stock is completely different to anything else ScotRail use, the service is staffed separately...

 

[Mojo]

What is the benefit of having the sleeper services in a separate franchise rather than the Scotrail franchise?

http://www.transportscotland.gov.uk/rail/scottish-franchise-renewal-programme

''The Ministerial decision to create a separate Caledonian Sleeper Franchise has taken in order to obtain more focused management of the Sleeper operation and in conjunction with capital investment to develop a transformed product offering that will secure its future as a sustainable business. A transformation of the existing Sleeper offering is required with refurbishment/replacement of the existing rolling stock and at the terminals in order to provide enhanced passenger facilities and wider choice of traveling class.''

More info is available at http://www.transportscotland.gov.uk...enewal-programme/Caledonian-Slepper-Franchise

 

[Blindtraveler]

Arriva Night Trains :P I can imagine this being a Voyager

I would agree! As for Serco, they will probs do what they have done with the northern isles Orkney and Shetland ferries - strip away all the good bits of the service, ailionate the staff, infuriate the unions and wack up the prices!

Gotta be first Im afraid!


--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

What's the benefit of having it as part of the Scotrail franchise? There are no other similar services in the Scotrail network, half or more of the journey is outside the ScotRail map, the rolling stock is completely different to anything else ScotRail use, the service is staffed separately...

not entirely correct Re staffing, train guards from the regular pool including I think 1 forum member sign sleapers and I believe some Glasgow and Fortwilliam drivers do also with a Glasgow man bringing the 18:21X Glq As far as Rannoch where he swaps with an F W Man who has brought the beds down.

 

[overthewater]

First
Arriva Night Trains
Serco

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-23105287

When is the franchise due to start? The main article says 2015, but the caption under the (horribly generic) photo says "next year".

Next April it will be awarded, I heard on the radio it was next year it would be awarded.

 

[lyndhurst25]

Is the Paddington - Penzance sleeper staying as part of the Great Western franchise then?

 

[ainsworth74]

Yes. Until the franchise competition was cancelled it was made a franchise commitment of the future GW franchise which was nice to see.

 

[clc]

First
Arriva Night Trains
Serco

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-23105287

When is the franchise due to start? The main article says 2015, but the caption under the (horribly generic) photo says "next year".

The winning bidder will be notified next Summer but the franchise doesn't begin until April 2015.

 

[Yew]

Does this mean the refurbishment will be held off until the new franchise?

 

[HSTEd]

This will make the subsidy for the service far more apparent than it is now.
Allowing it to be axed as part of future High Speed rail commitments.

 

[fgwrich]

First
Arriva Night Trains
Serco

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-23105287

When is the franchise due to start? The main article says 2015, but the caption under the (horribly generic) photo says "next year".

That's funny, as either the BBC Article is wrong or Roger Ford is wrong. Informed Sources this week said:

Rolling stock developments
Time to catch up with a couple of slow-burning rolling stock prospects, starting with the Caledonian Sleeper service which is being offered as a separate franchise.
Pre-Qualification Questionnaires were returned on May 22 and four potential bidders have come forward. According to Informed Sources, they are Arriva, First Group, Great Scottish Railways and Serco.
Great Scottish Railways? In a blast from the past two of the founding fathers of GB Railways, Michael Schabas and Max Steinkopf, are back in the hunt. If they pre-qualify that should liven things up no end

Now if true, this could be interesting. First Group Vs the former GB Railways founders / management. One to come back and haunt First? My main preference would be GB Railways or First - First at least for now, still run Scotrail so should allow some flexibility between SR and the caley sleeper. Arriva or Serco, no thanks. I could almost imagine that the catering would be reduced on Arriva, and near non existent on Serco, or just completely contracted out to someone like Rail Gourmet.

 

[Oliver]

This will make the subsidy for the service far more apparent than it is now.
Allowing it to be axed as part of future High Speed rail commitments.

Well the true cost of running the sleepers has been difficult to establish in the past, and they undoubtedly require a significant subsidy per head. Whoever wins will surely want to get more people travelling overnight, whether seated or in bed, to bring the subsidy more in line with daytime services.

There is some information here: http://www.transportscotland.gov.uk...enewal-programme/Caledonian-Slepper-Franchise (the mis-spelling in the URL is correct) but there are a various exclusions in the costs shown. Based on the subsidy figure shown of £5 million per year, that is about £8,000 per service. If the train is carrying 150 people that's about £50 subsidy per head.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

That's funny, as either the BBC Article is wrong or Roger Ford is wrong. Informed Sources this week said:

They are probably both right.
Roger was identifying the bidders for the pre-qualification process.
The BBC was identifying those who had been qualified in by the Scottish Government (ie GSR was qualified out).

 

[matchmaker]

The next stage will be the tender process. I wonder what the price/quality split will be.....................just checked the notice and it appears it is price only.

 

[Blindtraveler]

on that basis and given the Scottish Gov's past history its between Serco and Ariva. Serco were awarded the Scottish Government Orkney and Shetland Lifeline Ferry contract a year ago and whilst the spin machine would have us believe otherwise the deterioration in onboard service, sise in costs to customers, cutback in dry docking and industrial relations issues we have had with Serco make me certain it was purely on cost. Likewise wev seen what a mess Ariva can make of things with X C. First will be costly but they wil invest and look how good FGWs product now is?

 

[Aictos]

IF one of the conditions of the franchise was the wholesale replacement of the existing stock or part replacement, what could we see?

Would they just keep the existing stock and just refurbish it or would they look into new built stock?

 

[work-traveller]

It would be nice if the new service combined the friendliness of the Night Riviera with the lounge carriages (with sofas) on the Highland Sleeper.

If Serco's current Northern Rail franchise is anything to go by, we'd be better off without them winning the Caledonian Sleeper service.

 

[YorkshireBear]

It would be nice if the new service combined the friendliness of the Night Riviera with the lounge carriages (with sofas) on the Highland Sleeper.

If Serco's current Northern Rail franchise is anything to go by, we'd be better off without them winning the Caledonian Sleeper service.

I dont think it is anything to go by. Local and regional services on a no growth commuter franchise compared to a flagship sleeper route. Not really comparable.

 

[SprinterMan]

on that basis and given the Scottish Gov's past history its between Serco and Ariva. Serco were awarded the Scottish Government Orkney and Shetland Lifeline Ferry contract a year ago and whilst the spin machine would have us believe otherwise the deterioration in onboard service, sise in costs to customers, cutback in dry docking and industrial relations issues we have had with Serco make me certain it was purely on cost. Likewise wev seen what a mess Ariva can make of things with X C. First will be costly but they wil invest and look how good FGWs product now is?

To be fair, XC is better now that it was under Virgin. It is still nothing special, but at least it works now.

Adam

 

[rebmcr]

This will make the subsidy for the service far more apparent than it is now.
Allowing it to be axed as part of future High Speed rail commitments.

IIRC it's quite popular with MPs, perhaps giving it a better than fighting chance.

 

[bnm]

on that basis and given the Scottish Gov's past history its between Serco and Ariva. Serco were awarded the Scottish Government Orkney and Shetland Lifeline Ferry contract a year ago and whilst the spin machine would have us believe otherwise the deterioration in onboard service, sise in costs to customers, cutback in dry docking and industrial relations issues we have had with Serco make me certain it was purely on cost. Likewise wev seen what a mess Ariva can make of things with X C. First will be costly but they wil invest and look how good FGWs product now is?

Interesting that you are down on Serco, yet praise FGW. The former provides the latter's customer service!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

IF one of the conditions of the franchise was the wholesale replacement of the existing stock or part replacement, what could we see?

Would they just keep the existing stock and just refurbish it or would they look into new built stock?

There is an investment of £50-60 million from Holyrood and £50 million from Westminster allied to the new franchise for just that. Either toward comprehensive refurbishment or new rolling stock.

 

[transmanche]

If Serco's current Northern Rail franchise is anything to go by, we'd be better off without them winning the Caledonian Sleeper service.

I think one thing we've all learned from rail privatisation is that you can't assume that one parent group's performance on TOC A will bear any similarity to the same group's performance on TOC B.

Take First Group. Is their performance on Hull Trains anything like Capital Connect or Transpennine Express?

Similarly is the performance on Serco/Abellio-operated Northern directly comparable with the Serco/Abellio-operated Merseyrail? Or the Serco-operated DLR?

 

[Muzer]

For the biggest contrast, NXEA vs c2c is always the best.

 

[34D]

When is the vote on Scottish devolution again?

As much as I love travelling on both sleeper routes, I can't see any economic justification for them

 

[ainsworth74]

As much as I love travelling on both sleeper routes, I can't see any economic justification for them

If by both you mean Night Riviera and Caledonian then my understanding is that the Night Riviera is much healthier financially than the Caledonian. After all it wasn't part of FGWs franchise agreement to run it but they've persevered with it .

 

[edwin_m]

IIRC it's quite popular with MPs, perhaps giving it a better than fighting chance.

But depending on the result of a certain vote, this market may have disappeared well before the end of the new franchise.

 

[HSTEd]

Caledonian Sleeper is far more complex operationally than the Night Riviera.

 

[IanXC]

Caledonian Sleeper is far more complex operationally than the Night Riviera.

Although the Caledonian has probably always been more complex, FGW did significantly simplify the Night Riviera. The Lowland for instance, if operated via the East Coast, could drop off the Edinburgh portion (left with a shore supply) and work through to Glasgow - I suspect that the bidders have come up with some interesting ways to cut costs from the operation.