Caledonian Sleeper discussion

[ShwervinMervin]

92010 on the blocks of the highlander stock so barring any problems thats the loco for the lowlander forgot to check the highlander loco on the way in.

Just rode the lowlander last night. 92014

 

[ge-gn]

Not up with loco stuff, but I have heard much bad press about class 67s. On the Inverness Southbound now, was on the northbound a few days ago and they seem to do the job well.

Got me wondering, why spend tons rebuilding 50/60 year old class 73s if there is a perfectly usable class (67) sitting there doing nothing?

Probably been covered before, but please excuse my tired/ whisky fuelled musings.

 

[InOban]

1. Fuel economy.
2. A single fleet of CS-liveried fitted with the special couplers and able to supply sufficient Hotel Power to the new vehicles.

 

[Scotrail84]

1. Fuel economy.
2. A single fleet of CS-liveried fitted with the special couplers and able to supply sufficient Hotel Power to the new vehicles.

Problems will arise with a loco failure and a non CS ono has to rescue though. No power to the train. Will see how good the batteries are though.

 

[gsnedders]

Got me wondering, why spend tons rebuilding 50/60 year old class 73s if there is a perfectly usable class (67) sitting there doing nothing?

Will DBC be willing to sell the 67s sat around doing nothing to GBRf who have the CS contract? If not, how much does converting the 73s cost versus the cost of subcontracting the haulage to DBC?

 

[Bungle965]

Will DBC be willing to sell the 67s sat around doing nothing to GBRf who have the CS contract? If not, how much does converting the 73s cost versus the cost of subcontracting the haulage to DBC?

DB sold some of their 67s to Colas so I would not rule it out.
Sam

 

[Far north 37]

Just rode the lowlander last night. 92014

92014 was on the highlander thursday night.

 

[PaxVobiscum]

Is it normal for two separate bookings for the seated coach on the same night to be allocated the same seat number?
These are both for GLQ - FTW (and return) if that has a bearing on it.

 

[alistairlees]

Is it normal for two separate bookings for the seated coach on the same night to be allocated the same seat number?
These are both for GLQ - FTW (and return) if that has a bearing on it.

You should have a reservation from Euston to Edinburgh and another one from Edinburgh to Fort William. The leg from Euston to Edinburgh is in the Aberdeen coach. You have to change at Edinburgh as new coaches (seated coach and lounge car coach) are added to the Fort William portion. People in the sleepers are unaffected.

The reservations should be in differently lettered coaches; if they are same seat number it doesn't matter.

Can you share exactly what you have?

 

[alistairlees]

I've just noticed you said they are both from Glasgow Queen Street to Fort William. So presumably they were not booked via sleeper.scot website (or call centre)?

 

[PaxVobiscum]

I'm just off the phone to Caledonian Sleeper and they can't explain why the two bookings had the same seat allocated, however they said that the first on is showing as cancelled - not by me, as there is no mechanism for that.

As it happens it suits me, because during the first booking (through the NRE website) the railcard changed itself, or defaulted to, 16-25 instead of senior at the point where NRE handed over to the Sleeper.scot website. Being unable to contact them by telephone at that time I thought it safer just to re-book more carefully, making sure that the railcard went through correctly (we are talking about £13.20 for the return journey here!)

Time will tell whether they have in fact charged me for both tickets (I don't have online banking for the card I used to pay). If they have I shall ask for a refund of the 16-25 railcard ticket.

EDIT: To avoid cluttering up this thread with ticketing matters, I've started a new one in the Fares, Tickets and Routeing forum:
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/seated-sleeper-tickets-reserved-seat-oddity.167713/

 

[GW43125]

92010 is tonight’s traction on 1S26.

87002 brought in the empties.

 

[scotraildriver]

Will DBC be willing to sell the 67s sat around doing nothing to GBRf who have the CS contract? If not, how much does converting the 73s cost versus the cost of subcontracting the haulage to DBC?

67s cannot provide enough ETH (hotel power) for the Mk5 coaches and are also restricted to crippling speed restrictions over some structures due to high axle weight. E.g. 10 mph over Garelochead viaduct, amongst others.

 

[GW43125]

What’s the minimum rest break a driver must take? On 1S26 tonight we came into Preston and the driver came off 1M11 late, we then sat for a good 10 minutes before setting off again.

 

[GW43125]

90044 on 1B26 this morning.
Rather pleasingly, 90043 was parked in the Klondyke as we arrived in Edinburgh.

 

[Scotrail84]

What’s the minimum rest break a driver must take? On 1S26 tonight we came into Preston and the driver came off 1M11 late, we then sat for a good 10 minutes before setting off again.

There are 2 drivers on 1M11 on a Sunday. One travels pass down and works back 1S26.

The driver that works 1M11 down travels back pass on 1S26.

This only happens on a Sunday as theres no time fo the drivers to get PNB's at Preston.

 

[Graham H]

Thanks. Could be worse then. I'm picturing 200 sleepy folk in pyjamas freezing on some isolated, facility-lacking platform in the middle of nowhere!

Actually happened to me....well kind of as it wasn't the normal sleeper. Used the old 1980's BR Landcruise once with sleepers/day stock that departed from St Pancras (Oh happy days). Woke up to complete silence somewhere north of Perth. Definitely single track and we had fortuitously rolled as far as one of the closed stations as the class 47 had apparently run out of fuel. We were invited to detrain and have a stroll around while waiting for a rescue engine. Platform in reasonable condition but no buildings as I recall so I am afraid I have no idea now which one it was. Health and Safety was far more relaxed back then as I am sure we wouldn't have been allowed to wander although obviously as it was a single track nothing else would be coming and detonators had been placed behind us. Class 47 appeared from Perth direction and woke the neighbours as it rolled over the series of detonators ! We were then pushed to Blair Atholl where the loco ran round to the front and pulled the whole ensemble on to Inverness. I don't recall us passing another loop between failure and Blair Atholl so that might identify the station as Killiecrankie unless of course lack of run round capability or length of loop at Pitlochry etc made Blair Atholl the first place we could so the station we stopped at remains a mystery.

 

[skifans]

Just wondering if anyone knows if Bargin Berths still exist (http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/archive/NFM17/times_fares/pre92dc90a04000401b7f532a124505a.html) was looking at potentialy making a trip but current prices are just too high. I can't find any recent information online, the National Rail Enquiries says it is until further notice but at the top of the page "This information was applicable for Fares Round NFM17 (02/01/2014 - 18/05/2014)"

If it has gone, has it been replaced by a modern equivalent?

 

[najaB]

Just wondering if anyone knows if Bargin Berths still exist

Sadly, no.

If it has gone, has it been replaced by a modern equivalent?

Nothing, unfortunately.

 

[RLBH]

If it has gone, has it been replaced by a modern equivalent?

It has gone, and hasn't been replaced. Caledonian Sleeper aren't interested in providing a replacement - people asking after Bargain Berths on Twitter are told that they can travel in the seats.

Basically, I think that the idea of running the sleeper as a service for people whose travel plans require leaving late and arriving early is of no interest to them. They want to run a luxury hotel train, with a hoi polloi carriage tacked on the back for carriage of luggage, shellfish and people who can't afford a berth. And fair play to them, if that's what they want to do. Unfortunately the rolling stock they've ordered to do it with doesn't really allow for a future change of strategy.

 

[skifans]

Sadly, no.
Nothing, unfortunately.

Ohh well, at the moment it going to be half the price for an evening train and AirBnB the night before. Maybe makes more sense if your your boarding from London rather then Preston. Thanks for the information though.

It has gone, and hasn't been replaced. Caledonian Sleeper aren't interested in providing a replacement - people asking after Bargain Berths on Twitter are told that they can travel in the seats.

Basically, I think that the idea of running the sleeper as a service for people whose travel plans require leaving late and arriving early is of no interest to them. They want to run a luxury hotel train, with a hoi polloi carriage tacked on the back for carriage of luggage, shellfish and people who can't afford a berth. And fair play to them, if that's what they want to do. Unfortunately the rolling stock they've ordered to do it with doesn't really allow for a future change of strategy.

Yeah, i've seen the new stock, I realy wish there was an option to stay in a more cochette style like on the continent with 4/6 to a berth. Seems extra annoying that the closest we have of sharing a berth is going as well. Thanks for the insight.

 

[najaB]

Yeah, i've seen the new stock, I realy wish there was an option to stay in a more cochette style like on the continent with 4/6 to a berth.

There were, initially, going to be sleeping pods - think lay-flat seats on airliners. However they were deleted from the final product, apparently on Elifin Safety grounds.

 

[RLBH]

Yeah, i've seen the new stock, I realy wish there was an option to stay in a more cochette style like on the continent with 4/6 to a berth. Seems extra annoying that the closest we have of sharing a berth is going as well. Thanks for the insight.

6-berth couchettes won't really work in the UK loading gauge, but 4-berth will. You use the same spacing as for First Class on a Mk 1/2/3 coach, with two-tier berths either side. In a 23m vehicle, that gets you 32 berths. Four of them plus three sleeping cars of the Mark 5 design gets you slightly more capacity than the current 6+1+1 rakes, and gives the 'seated' passengers somewhere to lie down.

For extra crankage, such a couchette would be easily convertible to a first-class compartment coach, which could easily be hauled on the West Highland and Far North lines, if only there were passengers to sit in it and locomotives to haul it.

There were, initially, going to be sleeping pods - think lay-flat seats on airliners.

Those wind up taking about the same amount of space as conventional compartments, IMHO. Perhaps better for solo travellers, but not really competing with couchettes or the seated sleeper.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If doing couchettes (and I agree, I wish they would as I can't sleep properly in a seat and the rooms are *pricey*) in the UK loading gauge 2 tier longitudinal couchettes would be best, that's what the Thais do and their trains are a similar size to ours. I prefer that arrangement anyway, if you sleep with your feet towards the front you don't get woken up all the time as the blood goes to your head. The best night's sleep I ever had on a train was on a DB Talgo set with that arrangement.

If you used First Class bay spacing that'd get you 32 per coach. You could use Standard bay spacing for 36 instead, but that would result in quite short bunks (though, to be fair I did manage to sleep on the longitudinal "shelves" in an Indian sleeper class coach, and those are only about 2' 6" wide and 5' 6" long, and I am 6' 4" and almost as broad)...for me being horizontal and it being dark are way more important than whether I have to tuck up a bit.

 

[najaB]

Those wind up taking about the same amount of space as conventional compartments, IMHO.

They weren't quite as lay-flat as the most modern pods, think BA/AA around 1990.

 

[Bletchleyite]

They weren't quite as lay-flat as the most modern pods, think BA/AA around 1990.

TBH I'd rather stacked couchettes than having to ask someone to move so I could get out. (I think the pods likely would have been a 2+1 arrangement)

 

[najaB]

TBH I'd rather stacked couchettes than having to ask someone to move so I could get out.

IIRC, the drawings showed that most people should have been able to had just enough room to stand and then step over the other passenger's feet.

 

[Bletchleyite]

IIRC, the drawings showed that most people should have been able to had just enough room to stand and then step over the other passenger's feet.

I suppose more space than an economy flight. Last time I tried to get out without waking someone up I ended up knocking something and making a loud noise, waking them up just as I had one foot on each of their armrests (aircraft seat armrests are VERY strong, unlike flimsy train ones) and was about to swing out using the rail on the bottom of the overheads...it was a difficult one to explain away, if you woke up and saw all 18 stone of me standing on your seat armrests you'd be scared too

 

[Mordac]

I suppose more space than an economy flight. Last time I tried to get out without waking someone up I ended up knocking something and making a loud noise, waking them up just as I had one foot on each of their armrests (aircraft seat armrests are VERY strong, unlike flimsy train ones) and was about to swing out using the rail on the bottom of the overheads...it was a difficult one to explain away, if you woke up and saw all 18 stone of me standing on your seat armrests you'd be scared too

I had to do this recently on a TATL Aer Lingus red-eye (in economy) to step over a very overweight aisle seat passenger. However, I can't complain too much, because his bulk scared away the middle seat passenger into finding another seat somewhere at the back(!) and so we had an empty middle seat. Well worth the acrobatics IMO.

 

[Far north 37]

Any idea whats likely candidates for the southbound highlander tommorow night from inverness are