Class 170s/185s to Irish Rail?

Discussion in 'Traction & Rolling Stock' started by F Great Eastern, 28 Dec 2018.

  1. Elecman

    Elecman Established Member

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    NTA trying to pressure the present manufacturer to give a good price for the extra carriages they require ?
     
  2. F Great Eastern

    F Great Eastern Established Member

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    Won't be soon enough, the NTA need some vehicles ready to enter service after gauge conversion in 2020.
     
  3. LOL The Irony

    LOL The Irony Established Member

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    Come on, we want to keep the Good Friday agreement intact. On a serious note, they won't be ready in time.
     
  4. hexagon789

    hexagon789 Established Member

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    Won't they also need CAWS fitting?
     
  5. RealTrains07

    RealTrains07 Established Member

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    If we give away decent DMU to Ireland then what happens when we need to replace bus car wagons like the 153 and 156 which are soon gonna be gone. EMT being an example which needs new short form DMU unites like the 185?
     
  6. LOL The Irony

    LOL The Irony Established Member

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    The 156 is based off the MK4 carriage. They were built at the same time in the same factory.
     
  7. najaB

    najaB Veteran Member

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    First thing, we wouldn't be "giving" anything away - the owners of the assets would be seeking to maximise the revenue that they can get out of them.

    Second, you're assuming that the 185s are particularly well suited to anyone else in the UK. If there was long-term home for them then the I'm sure that the ROSCO would prefer to keep them here rather than go through the expense of changing the guage.
     
  8. Jonny

    Jonny Established Member

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    Would IR not be better off with some re-gauged (ex-)EMU-generator units, running as DEMU, as they are unlikely to need the massive engine power, even downrated to ~600hp, (and fuel bill) for a class 185?

    Or, if it is a short-term fix, a few HSTs and coaches that will be coming spare soon as well and could easily be re-fitted and re-gauged as required.
     
  9. hexagon789

    hexagon789 Established Member

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    Bus car wagons? Assuming you mean trains based on buses neither 153s or 156s fit such a description.
     
  10. Jonny

    Jonny Established Member

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    My understanding is that the 155s (mostly converted to 153s), or at least their body shells, were made predominantly using bus components, but mounted on bogies and generally more subtle than the 14x units.
     
  11. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    153s are indeed made of Leyland National body panels and interiors, same as 14x. They are however of rather higher quality.
     
  12. ainsworth74

    ainsworth74 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    The provenance of 153s or 155s is off-topic. It's quite clear from what's been said previously on this thread that they would be wholly unsuitable for what has been proposed.
     
  13. hwl

    hwl Established Member

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    They also basically said no Alstom as they had already learnt that lesson the hard way!
     
  14. anamyd

    anamyd Established Member

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    Welsh cheese...? In all seriousness what does that stand for...?
     
  15. berneyarms

    berneyarms Established Member

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    The 153s or 156s are totally unsuitable for the services that the rolling stock is needed for by Iarnród Éireann.

    What are needed are units for middle distance journeys that offer high capacity and high speed.

    The Class 185s are perfect for what the company requires.

    CAWS = Continuous Automatic Warning System - the in-cab signalling and train protection system used by Iarnród Éireann.
     
  16. ainsworth74

    ainsworth74 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Continuous Automatic Warning System. It's similar to and arguably better than the GBs AWS.
     
  17. anamyd

    anamyd Established Member

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  18. RealTrains07

    RealTrains07 Established Member

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    Abellio is looking at taking the 185s for EMR, like i said before so other options maybe?
    Ireland needs more 170s in this case
     
  19. edwin_m

    edwin_m Veteran Member

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    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuous_Automatic_Warning_System
     
  20. anamyd

    anamyd Established Member

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    thanks :)
     
  21. anamyd

    anamyd Established Member

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  22. ainsworth74

    ainsworth74 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Which is why those are the two options that they've been looking at. Either 185s or 170s that's been the case from the outset. It does seem that, at the very least, the 185s have been potentially discounted as they won't be available within the required time span. I wouldn't be surprised if something similar ends up happening with the 170s. It seems unlikely, to be quite honest, that any suitable rolling stock will be available within the timescales that Iarnród Éireann require them in to fill the gap between now and the arrival of new rolling stock (let's not forget that the whole point of this was they wanted something quick to cover until they can carry out a full procurement exercise for long term additional stock).
     
  23. edwin_m

    edwin_m Veteran Member

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    I agree. Re-gauging and fitting new safety systems isn't a trivial exercise and re-engineering of a similar degree in the UK hasn't exactly gone to schedule.
     
  24. berneyarms

    berneyarms Established Member

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    Given that a new order for rolling stock has yet to even go to tender or be placed by the National Transport Authority or Iarnród Éireann, I think that the 170 / 185 option is most certainly a live one still.
     
  25. CosherB

    CosherB On Moderation

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    There aren't any UK DMUs going to Ireland. End of.
     
  26. hexagon789

    hexagon789 Established Member

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    Continous Automatic Warning System, like British AWS but with an in-cab display that shows the current signal aspect and then updates to that of the next signal before you can even see it.
     
  27. hexagon789

    hexagon789 Established Member

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    I agree, it was doubtful enough to start with.
     
  28. berneyarms

    berneyarms Established Member

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    And you can be 100% certain of that because of what?
     
  29. BMIFlyer

    BMIFlyer Member

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    I can certainly confirm that no 185s will be leaving the UK.
     
  30. hexagon789

    hexagon789 Established Member

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    I imagine if anything was getting transferred to IÉ anyway we'd have heard something more concrete by now?
     

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