East Midlands Trains, their C158s are excellent, but their Meridians absolute c**p ?

[EM2]

although I don't believe that anyone is totally unbothered by it...

I am totally unbothered about it. There you go.

 

[RAGNARØKR]

This is going around in circles, I think most people would agree that the pendo is not the perfect train, but to be honest what is the perfect train? Does it even exist? But you want to travel from Oxenholme - London, are you really going to go by coach or car just because it may be a Pendo. You may not like looking at plastic but for me the solution is simple, upgrade to 1st (if travelling in advanced). I know their are a lot of limited view seats on all trains, I don't think I have ever had to do a 4 hour journey on one. If it is that full I am probably sat in an asile seat anyway!

There is not much to complain about the IC3 train or SJ's X31 EMUs. The X2000 are fairly OK apart from having too many seats in airline configuration which then means there is no room for luggage, between seat backs, which ends up in a heap in the gangway.

There are a reasonable number of decent seats (32) in the end cars of the Southern class 377 Electrostars. I would rather spend four hours in one of those than in a Pendolino.

The optimum bay spacing is 1.90 metres, and windows 1.5 metres wide, which is the class 180 Adelante, that gives a good compromise between capacity and provides most seats with an unobstructed view. It is inconceivable that a 140 mph design could not be constructed with that configuration, to satisfy safety requirements.

The Pendolino is just a bad design, apart from the sexy front end which looks good on posters. There is no excuse. Of course the new cars will have to be the same wretched design as an entire new safety case would be needed for any change to be approved.

Bad design affects people for a long time. The rotten class 313 stock from the 1970s is now being inflicted on Southern Coastway passengers.

 

[Justin Smith]

The optimum bay spacing is 1.90 metres, and windows 1.5 metres wide, which is the class 180 Adelante, that gives a good compromise between capacity and provides most seats with an unobstructed view.

I like 175s/180s, they`re one of the most comfortable (and quiet) DMUs on the network, it`s a pity the reliability problems meant they were never popular.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I am totally unbothered about it. There you go.

So you`d be totally unbothered about travelling for over 2 hours from (say) Manchester to London with nothing to look at other than 24" of grey plastic ?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The Pendolino is just a bad design, apart from the sexy front end which looks good on posters. There is no excuse.

I agree with you, including that it does look good (from the outside.......) both in real life and on the posters !

 

[Mr Spock]

There are a reasonable number of decent seats (32) in the end cars of the Southern class 377 Electrostars. I would rather spend four hours in one of those than in a Pendolino.
.

4 hours on a 377 your'e having a laugh.

As for 180's being quiet just another laugh. I have been on one of these things 3 times - twice out of Paddington and both times I bailed at Reading as my head was buzzing because of the noise. The 3rd time was earlier this year when I got on one at Grantham to London, not only was my head buzzing but the ride was one of the worst I have ever had on a train.

 

[jon0844]

Bad design affects people for a long time. The rotten class 313 stock from the 1970s is now being inflicted on Southern Coastway passengers.

Hey, I was agreeing with everything you said until then! What's wrong with a 313? A good, solid, train that will go on forever. With a decent refresh, they're just fine. Southern has plans to completely refurbish them when they should look amazing, given their age!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

4 hours on a 377 your'e having a laugh.

As for 180's being quiet just another laugh. I have been on one of these things 3 times - twice out of Paddington and both times I bailed at Reading as my head was buzzing because of the noise. The 3rd time was earlier this year when I got on one at Grantham to London, not only was my head buzzing but the ride was one of the worst I have ever had on a train.

I can't remember how quiet a 180 sounded, but at least you've not got open windows. Coming back from Reading this week on a 165, with all windows open, was like a new form of hell. May as well put the engines inside the carriages and get all passengers to blow on vuvuzelas; it couldn't be much noisier!

(That'll teach me for not waiting 7 minutes or so to get an HST back!)

 

[Geezertronic]

So you'd be totally unbothered about travelling for over 2 hours from (say) Manchester to London with nothing to look at other than 24" of grey plastic ?

Why is it so hard to believe that not everyone shares your opinion? I've had no view restricted seats before travelling from EUS-BHI and it didn't bother me either...

 

[Justin Smith]

Why is it so hard to believe that not everyone shares your opinion? I've had no view restricted seats before travelling from EUS-BHI and it didn't bother me either...

I've heard this phrase "it takes all sorts" before, maybe it's true !
Me ? I want a window, just like in my car, or in my house come to that.

As for 180's being quiet just another laugh.

Maybe you just had bad luck. Obviously no DMU will be as quite and refined as hauled stock, but the 175s/180s are amongst the best DMUs I've been on.

 

[Jay]

There is word around the EMT camp that Rail Gourmet will run the onboard catering for the London routes real soon.

If this is the case, buffet/shops could be removed and replaced with a trolley service on the 222s. This could be in mine with EMTs refurb plans.

 

[Geezertronic]

I've heard this phrase "it takes all sorts" before, maybe it's true !
Me ? I want a window, just like in my car, or in my house come to that

Well it does take all sorts as you have proved and as someone else has previously commented earlier in this thread, you'll be wanting a decent view during a trip through the Channel Tunnel next...

 

[Justin Smith]

Well it does take all sorts as you have proved and as someone else has previously commented earlier in this thread, you'll be wanting a decent view during a trip through the Channel Tunnel next...

Jolly good idea.
How about they build a new tunnel under the channel only lay it on top of the sea bed and make it out of transparent perspex. The trains could then have powerful lights shining out of the sides of the carriages so we can see all the little fishys (before they get on the little dishys, when the boat comes in that is).

Might work, it really might. We can land a man on the moon don't forget.

 

[Greenback]

This thread is still rumbling along then?!!

Talking of the Channel Tunnel, I was a postman when it was being built and I remember a colleague asking, seriously, what would happen if a submarine crashed into it!

 

[EM2]

So you'd be totally unbothered about travelling for over 2 hours from (say) Manchester to London with nothing to look at other than 24" of grey plastic ?

Yep. Done it in the past, with an iPod, laptop and a magazine or book to keep me occupied.

 

[Daimler]

This thread is still rumbling along then?!!

Talking of the Channel Tunnel, I was a postman when it was being built and I remember a colleague asking, seriously, what would happen if a submarine crashed into it!

I remember (just about - I was only four or five at the time) going through on the Eurostar it not long after it opened and a man asking in a serious and straight faced way, 'is this the Tunnel? Oh - where are all the fish?'

 

[Geezertronic]

Jolly good idea.
How about they build a new tunnel under the channel only lay it on top of the sea bed and make it out of transparent perspex. The trains could then have powerful lights shining out of the sides of the carriages so we can see all the little fishys (before they get on the little dishys, when the boat comes in that is).

Might work, it really might. We can land a man on the moon don't forget.

You probably want something like this then?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transatlantic_tunnel

 

[Peter Mugridge]

You'd have to put the lights on the outside of the perspex tunnel, not the train, otherwise all you'd see would be the reflections...!!



Errr...

Am I the only one who peers through the Eurostar windows in the tunnel in order to time the train at the two crossover caverns?

 

[MCR247]

There are a reasonable number of decent seats (32) in the end cars of the Southern class 377 Electrostars. I would rather spend four hours in one of those than in a Pendolino.

Well it would take about 6 hours then because of their lower speed. And the bang everytime a train goes past wouldn't annoy you?

 

[Justin Smith]

I don't get this argument about windows.
I've never had a window seat on any train where I couldn't actually see out of the window.

Never been on a train where you couldn't actually see out of the window ?
Look at the third picture down on this link, which also shows "back to back" a Pendolino's claustrophobia v an APT's light and pleasant interior.

 

[MCR247]

But how would the APT have coped with the current passenger numbers?

A: They wouldn't

 

[Failed Unit]

But how would the APT have coped with the current passenger numbers?

A: They wouldn't

Why not pacers and hst do. Lol

Some threads never die.

 

[tbtc]

Some threads never die.

Sadly we're going to have lots of ill-informed half baked comments going round and round in circles. Again.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Having never seen this Thread before can I just say (after reading the original post):

Class 175 - OK;
Class 220/221/390 - awful;
Class 153/156/158/222 (in any TOC) - good;
HSTs (again, in any TOC) - simply the best.

 

[Aictos]

Sadly we're going to have lots of ill-informed half baked comments going round and round in circles. Again.

Agreed, could this not be locked?

 

[Kneedown]

The EMT 158s are awful. The refurb is shoddy, falling apart already. Left massively underpowered by the work DeltaFail have done to them, and I know a driver will be along soon to lambast DeltaRails work!

That'll be me then!

Pumbaa speaks the truth. The quality of work done is really quite abysmal, and though they may look nice at the minute, give it a few months. I can't believe that anyone without anorexia can possibly walk down the carriage without bruising their legs or ripping the pockets off their trousers.
As regards the lack of power this is also true. Even the four 400hp ex Wessex units seem to be suffering. I can't quite understand why this is as it was not within Deltarails remit to do any work on the engines. There is a rumour going around that EMT are getting their fuel from a different supplier, but i cannot confirm this, and also, if this is indeed the case, why is it not affecting other units in the fleet? Our 156's and 153's are hardly noted for fast acceleration at the best of times, but we'd certainly notice if they were worse than usual.

 

[RAGNARØKR]

But how would the APT have coped with the current passenger numbers?

A: They wouldn't

This issue of seating capacity and window alignment is very simple. The minimum distance for facing bays is about 1.75M which is what it is in the class 158 stock. It is 1.8M in the Electrostar/Turbostar, 1.9M in the class 180, 1.93M in mark 1 stock and 1.95M in mark 2 stock standard class. If the windows as spaced to match, then all the windows and seats will align correctly.

In 23M mark 3 stock there are 8 bays of 2.1M which gives correct alignment for first class seats but misaligns in standard class. The BREL International was a similar vehicle to mark 3 but with 9 bays instead of 8, and that can have 72 seats all in facing bays, with good luggage space between seat backs.

If more seats are to be fitted in, then some of them have to be face-to-back and unless the body shell is specially designed for the seating layout, some of the seats will not align with the windows. It will also be necessary to provide luggage space.

A few misaligned seats are probably acceptable for people who want to use their computers during the journey.

Swedish railways provide vehicle plans for each type of train so you can select your seat if you have any preference, which solves the problem.

http://www.sj.se/content/1/c6/08/76/57/t2_1126-SJ-VagnsskissX2000webb.pdf

 

[WillPS]

Never been on a train where you couldn't actually see out of the window ?
Look at the third picture down on this link, which also shows "back to back" a Pendolino's claustrophobia v an APT's light and pleasant interior.

Was there any good reason for you to drag up a 4 month old thread other than to plug a page (expressing the same opinion you've expressed throughout your 290 posts) on a commercial website?

Can this thread be laid to rest yet?

 

[Greenback]

Yes please! There was no good reason at all to drag up such an old thread, which had run it's course a long while back in any case!

 

[Geezertronic]

Justin unfortunately is still on one about the Pendolino seating, alignments and window sizes as can be seen by the edit history of the British Rail 390 Wikipedia entry.

Aside from advertising his own website (is that allowed mods?), he cannot seem to grasp the idea that his original research into the figures he has provided about the 390 and APT window sizes cannot be classed as accurate and that "skulking around New Street" (his words, not mine) with a tape measure and asking some bloke at the Heritage Centre is not an accurate way of getting the measurements.

Time and time again I have suggested he try and find something more official to add as a reference, until such evidence is presented the figures will always remain as original research and cannot be classed as accurate (especially since the same figure cannot apply for every coach in the formation).

I don't honestly know why he is putting much effort into this without quantifying his figures with accurate research but suffcie to say he won't let it lie...

 

[Justin Smith]

To those who think that hardly anyone is bothered about small windows on trains, try putting Virgin Pendolino small windows into Google.
So it's not only me then ?
Even I was surprised at how many people are on the intenet complaining about it.
And remember, most people don't complain, even it they are, in fact, not happy.

 

[Lampshade]

To those who think that hardly anyone is bothered about small windows on trains, try putting Virgin Pendolino small windows into Google.
So it's not only me then ?
Even I was surprised at how many people are on the intenet complaining about it.
And remember, most people don't complain, even it they are, in fact, not happy.

Do you ever give up?

Yes, the seat/window alignment on Pendolinos isn't brilliant, this has been discussed to death. Also, more self-advertising?

</thread>

 

[Greenback]

I dislike the window arrangments on Pendolino's, but, please, enough is enough!