ECML Disruption - Saturday 27th December

[lincolnshire]

just love it a rail replacement bus operation in a box and ready to roll even a crane to replace the broken down one that is supposed to have broken down?
barriers for crowd control etc.

We should have one of these boxes at every station when major critical projects happen.

 

[tcm1106]

NR1: We have so many financial penalties in place it's gonna work!

NR2: Well done mate.

NR1: Err it's gone wrong, we're in the ****.

NR2: But the penalties?

NR1: It has bugger all to do with those mate.

NR2: I'm off to a cocktail party, deal with it.

NR1: Aaaarrrr

Oh shut up. Yes. That's exactly how it works isn't it.

Armchair experts all over the place on here.

 

[trainophile]

Did my ears deceive me, or did that NR guy just say something about "so that we can get the full system running smoothly by Monday 5th January"?

There's a whole week between now and then, only one day of which is a public holiday. Are we in for several more days of chaos then?

 

[tcm1106]

Did my ears deceive me, or did that NR guy just say something about "so that we can get the full system running smoothly by Monday 5th January"?



There's a whole week between now and then, only one day of which is a public holiday. Are we in for several more days of chaos then?

No more chaos (hopefully) but I believe there may be an amended timetable, as originally planned, due to continuing works over the New Year period.
I'm not familiar with the works planned but chances are that this would involve restricted use of fasts/slows/ups/downs etc...

 

[Skymonster]

St Pancras this morning bedlam... EMT already publicising they were expecting more than normal numbers of passengers due to the West Coast blockade and lack of services into Euston, then Kings Cross closed due work overrun and Finsbury Park closed to passengers due overcrowding. Some EC passengers had certainly been sent over to STP. End result huge queues for northbound EMT services. Hull Trains running into STP this afternoon. Fortunately the crowding had subsided somewhat by the evening when I came North on EMT, but still lots of extra punters trying to find a reasonable way north...

 

[Class 170101]

Many years ago when I was in train planning some scrotes celebrated Xmas by setting fire to some key signalling at Soho (Birmingham). My boss managed to find me, and other staff, and in we went to write an emergency timetable! Pre-social media, pre mobile phones!

Disappointing if it can't be done these days ....

Just because you would be happy to work at Christmas others won't be just because it is now easier to get hold of people doesn't mean the answer will be any different

 

[yorksrob]

Out of interest, does anybody in the know, know whether the disruption is likely to continue into tomorrow?

 

[GodAtum]

this would never happen in japan. all i want is someone to give a grovelling apology like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXUUN26sVsM

 

[anti-pacer]

St Pancras this morning bedlam... EMT already publicising they were expecting more than normal numbers of passengers due to the West Coast blockade and lack of services into Euston, then Kings Cross closed due work overrun and Finsbury Park closed to passengers due overcrowding. Some EC passengers had certainly been sent over to STP. End result huge queues for northbound EMT services. Hull Trains running into STP this afternoon. Fortunately the crowding had subsided somewhat by the evening when I came North on EMT, but still lots of extra punters trying to find a reasonable way north...

Were many services out of STP late today?

I know the 1226 STP-SHF was 23 mins late leaving.

 

[ollyrogers]

CrossCountry didn't exactly cover themselves in glory today either. 5 car trains with no catering and one available toilet for around 3-400 passengers. Despite having seat reservations I (and others) had to stand to allow elderly passengers to sit down. Not that I'm complaining about that, it's just something that happens - although I was priced out of a morning train when even on their own website they said they expected afternoon services today to be busy and morning services thinner on passenger numbers. Surely it doesn't take a professor of economics to understand that they should have dropped prices for the morning to compensate for the higher afternoon demand?

 

[ModernRailways]

I would just like to say a massive thanks to all the Great Northern staff at Finsbury Park tonight at around 7pm. I had a quick chat with one of the station staff members who I met on a London trip last year, and he was telling me how it has been pretty manic today but nothing too bad and that a lot of passengers have remained calm and been quite understanding that staff have no clue.

The East Coast staff, well they were utter s**t. No announcements on board giving us any information at all, other than a generic, 'Sorry for the delay, but due to overrunning works north of Kings Cross services are only able to go to Finsbury Park. If you need any further help speak to a member of the on train crew' No onward travel announcements, absolutely no help. I understand he would have most likely been under a lot of pressure (and stress) but he's in a customer facing role and should just grin and bear it. However, there would have been some staff who would have been helpful it just seems like I hit the worst train possible Just glad to be in London after 5 hours of standing on a packed, sweaty train

 

[Skymonster]

Were many services out of STP late today?

I know the 1226 STP-SHF was 23 mins late leaving.

Some morning services were late as the line through Alfreton was closed due to a tree blocking the line and some train staff were late to work (snow presumably) - SHF services through NOT were running via DBY rather than the Erewash valley. This evening most southbound EMT services seemed to be running between 10 and 20 late but some of the North services were getting away on time although the 1758 STP-SHF non stop to LEI ran all the way behind the 1802 NOT stopper due to a late southbound

 

[Stampy]

Went with my Dad on the 1000 Great Northern train from Peterborough to London (heading for Twickenham) today...

Train terminated at Welwyn Garden City at 1115, and everybody got turfed off, and for 2 hours we were shunted from Platform 2 to Platform 4 (up and down stairs) and back whilst they tried to sort out a train heading South...

Staff didn't seem interested at all, in fact the ONLY information we got was when we all got shoved on a 6-car train to Moorgate (Service 2K57) whose driver was BRILLIANT and kept us up to date on what was happening even when we spent 3/4 hour just sitting there at Platform 4....

Finally left there at about 1330, and crawled along to New Barnet (where we got off)

Carried onto Twickenham via bus to High Barnet, tube to Waterloo, then train to Twickers...

Coming back we got better communication from South West Trains, who told us what trains to get back to London that we got from GN!!!

Caught a train back to Clapham, and then one to Vauxhall before getting off at Finsbury Park...

Nobody at Finsbury Park had a clue which train was which - ALL the GN trains were going out of either Platforms 7 or 8.

Our train to Peterborough (which left at 2041) went through the following before finally departing :-

A GN service to King's Lynn
A GN service to Hertford North
A GN service to Cambridge

People were getting on and off and on trains all over the place as things changed!!!

Finally got home at about 2220!!!


If anybody knows the driver of the 2K57 this afternoon - buy him a pint, he deserves one as he was the ONLY one who knew what was going on!!

 

[anti-pacer]

Some morning services were late as the line through Alfreton was closed due to a tree blocking the line and some train staff were late to work (snow presumably) - SHF services through NOT were running via DBY rather than the Erewash valley. This evening most southbound EMT services seemed to be running between 10 and 20 late but some of the North services were getting away on time although the 1758 STP-SHF non stop to LEI ran all the way behind the 1802 NOT stopper due to a late southbound

Looking at Realtime Trains, it seems services all over the place have had a battering in terms of delays today.

 

[asylumxl]

I would just like to say a massive thanks to all the Great Northern staff at Finsbury Park tonight at around 7pm. I had a quick chat with one of the station staff members who I met on a London trip last year, and he was telling me how it has been pretty manic today but nothing too bad and that a lot of passengers have remained calm and been quite understanding that staff have no clue.

The East Coast staff, well they were utter s**t. No announcements on board giving us any information at all, other than a generic, 'Sorry for the delay, but due to overrunning works north of Kings Cross services are only able to go to Finsbury Park. If you need any further help speak to a member of the on train crew' No onward travel announcements, absolutely no help. I understand he would have most likely been under a lot of pressure (and stress) but he's in a customer facing role and should just grin and bear it. However, there would have been some staff who would have been helpful it just seems like I hit the worst train possible Just glad to be in London after 5 hours of standing on a packed, sweaty train

Which service were you on?

 

[theageofthetra]

As a neutral who was at Twickenham today well done to the Saints supporters who made it down. Top support from you and your fans and what a pleasure it was to be there today with proper, informed rugby fans. Contrast and compare to the rubbish who infest lesser internationals & the season opener.

 

[Hadders]

As a neutral who was at Twickenham today well done to the Saints supporters who made it down. Top support from you and your fans and what a pleasure it was to be there today with proper, informed rugby fans. Contrast and compare to the rubbish who infest lesser internationals & the season opener.

Thank you! Saints supporters do travel well and we do like to get behind our team. A very good win for us too.

To get back on topic I travelled to the match from Stevenage. Knowing there was disruption I set out two hours earlier than planned and headed for the 1106 from Stevenage.

This turned up as a 4 carriage train. What the hell were GN doing running 4 carriage trains. Full and standing upon arrival no chance of everyone waiting getting on.

Next up was the 1110 which arrived at 1121. Again another 4 car train, full and standing. I had to encourage passengers to move right down inside the car so more people could board, it was nice to be thanked by other passengers for doing this.

At Knebworth, Welwyn North, Welwyn Garden City and Hatfield passengers were left behind, unable to board. Several hundred in the case of WGC.

News started to filter through that Finsbury Park was closed due to over crowding. After we'd been held at Potters Bar for around 15 minutes I called my brother who lives nearby (and who I was supposed to be meeting at Waterloo) and asked if he could pick me up. This was a good move on my part, we made our way to Enfield Town and had a hassle free journey the rest of the way. Interestingly we caught the Victoria Line from Seven Sisters and expected it to get very busy at Finsbury Park but practically no-one boarded!

I believe the train I bailed from eventually arrived at Finsbury Park around 2 hours late.

The journey back was far better but more luck than judgement. There was a complete lack of information but an East Coast train standing in platform 4 was suddenly announced as going north, first stop Stevenage! Jumped on and was back pretty quickly. I didn't think they could reverse from platform 4 - so why did they have to use Drayton Park and Cannonbury to turn?

With hindsight I do wonder if running East Coast to Finsbury Park was a mistake. It takes far longer to unload a train load of passengers from an HST or Mk IV rake than a commuter style train due to the number of doors, and time would have been of the essence today due to the reduced capacity.

I'm no timetabling expert but why couldn't GN have cancelled some (or all) of the Cambridge trains and directed passengers from Cambridge to the West Anglia route (could sufficient stock have been found to strengthen these services?). This would have reduced the number of passengers heading for Finsbury Park, providing some relief.

Then using the stock freed up run 12 carriage shuttles from Peterborough to Finsbury Park, calling at Stevenage. These would have carried the passengers displaced by EC terminating at Peterborough/Stevenage.

Something like:

2 tph 12 car shuttle Peterborough, Stevenage, Finsbury Park (dispatchers are needed for 12 cars, Stevenage and Peterborough would have them)
1 tph 8 car Peterborough, Huntingdon, St Neots, Sandy, Biggleswade, Arlesey, Hitchin, Stevenage, Knebworth, Welwyn North, Welwyn Garden City, Hatfield, Potters Bar, Finsbury Park
1tph 8 car Royston, Ashwell, Baldock, Letchworth, Hitchin, Stevenage, Knebworth, Welwyn North, Welwyn Garden City, Hatfield, Potters Bar, Finsbury Park

 

[bussnapperwm]

Must get that the gaffer for Christmas

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Is there any station north of Finsbury Park on the route that has got an Underground connection? If there is could they have used it as an alighting only stop emptying the train of passengers, then have it travel south to Finsbury Park (slowly, part because of platform availability and part to allow cleaning), then board it at Finsbury Park?

 

[Chapeltom]

From an outside perspective it seems as if this was an unfortunate situation for all involved. Engineering works do over-run and most people know Christmas is the best time to do huge projects because of the two day shut-down.

Can understand why there are so many people angry but these things happen. Just hope as many people got from A to B as possible.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Must get that the gaffer for Christmas

Advertising something like that would be a good April Fools Day prank for Hornby to do on April 1st

 

[Robertj21a]

Surprised that nobody has raised why no buses were arranged to get at least some passengers away from Finsbury Park. There are London-area operators who specialise in such emergency work, so can usually respond very quickly.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Surprised that nobody has raised why no buses were arranged to get at least some passengers away from Finsbury Park. There are London-area operators who specialise in such emergency work, so can usually respond very quickly.

There might not have been the drivers available for the buses and looking at the crowding outside the station, would it have even been safe to have buses there? Looking at the station on Google Earth, the people were right over where the buses would have stopped so it'd probably caused as many problems in itself

 

[NSEFAN]

Surprised that nobody has raised why no buses were arranged to get at least some passengers away from Finsbury Park. There are London-area operators who specialise in such emergency work, so can usually respond very quickly.

There shouldn't have been any need for buses. Finsbury Park has good connections on the tube with the Victoria and Piccadilly lines. Trains were also running through to Moorgate, but these were severely disrupted and running at a heavily reduced frequency. I went to Hornsey to watch the diverted Hull Trains service pass on the goods lines, and the train back towards Finsbury Park was held at Harringay for over 30 minutes due to the crowds at Finsbury.

If there had been proper crowd control outside the station and separate platforms for arrivals and departures from the outset, things might have been smoother. What caused extra delay was the need to clear several HST loads of people who were both trying to get on and off the same train on platform 4. The subway and stairs at Finsbury Park are a bottleneck, they quickly became completely grid locked with people once the first train arrived in the morning from Bradford. Reversing trains into platform 5 for departures segregated the flow of passengers and clearly sped things up, although by this time a queue of express trains was building up north of the station!

 

[bramling]

Went with my Dad on the 1000 Great Northern train from Peterborough to London (heading for Twickenham) today...

Train terminated at Welwyn Garden City at 1115, and everybody got turfed off, and for 2 hours we were shunted from Platform 2 to Platform 4 (up and down stairs) and back whilst they tried to sort out a train heading South...

Staff didn't seem interested at all, in fact the ONLY information we got was when we all got shoved on a 6-car train to Moorgate (Service 2K57) whose driver was BRILLIANT and kept us up to date on what was happening even when we spent 3/4 hour just sitting there at Platform 4....

Finally left there at about 1330, and crawled along to New Barnet (where we got off)

Carried onto Twickenham via bus to High Barnet, tube to Waterloo, then train to Twickers...

Coming back we got better communication from South West Trains, who told us what trains to get back to London that we got from GN!!!

Caught a train back to Clapham, and then one to Vauxhall before getting off at Finsbury Park...

Nobody at Finsbury Park had a clue which train was which - ALL the GN trains were going out of either Platforms 7 or 8.

Our train to Peterborough (which left at 2041) went through the following before finally departing :-

A GN service to King's Lynn
A GN service to Hertford North
A GN service to Cambridge

People were getting on and off and on trains all over the place as things changed!!!

Finally got home at about 2220!!!


If anybody knows the driver of the 2K57 this afternoon - buy him a pint, he deserves one as he was the ONLY one who knew what was going on!!

After spending the afternoon dreading the journey home, my journey home was actually not too bad, although more by luck and judgement than anything else.

Decided to head to Moorgate instead of risking getting caught in any overcrowding at Finsbury Park. By luck, a Welwyn Garden City train arrived almost immediately and departed within a few minutes. 2x313 and had carriage to myself departing Moorgate. Debated to myself whether to change at Finsbury Park, but decided it was best to stay on, knowing from experience that there was almost certainly likely to be something turning from the north at Welwyn Garden City. The sound of loads of drunks on the platform at Finsbury Park was the final deciding factor in this decison. Had a reasonably good journey to Welwyn, no delays, and carriage to myself all the way. Nothing passed on the down fast at all the whole way, there was a queue of about 5 up trains waiting to get in to Finsbury Park, all gave the impression they had been sitting at signals for some time, some had spare seats whilst others were crush loaded. Interestingly, it was quite apparent that some trains were crush loaded in certain carriages whilst elsewhere on the same train could be seen spare seats!

Arrived at Welwyn Garden City, and thankfully could see 2x365 in platform 1 with the shunt cleared to the reversing siding - what a relief! After a few minutes 1x317 arrived from Finsbury Park heading for Peterborough, decided to let this go. This left crush loaded in the front 3 cars, with spare seats in the rear car! A minute or so later the 2x365s arrived in Platform 4, and departed, also for Peterborough, after a few minutes, I had not just a carriage but the entire eight-car train to myself, and more amusingly the train caught up and overtook the previous train at Stevenage.

All in all, not bad. Still took over 90 minutes to get from London to Hitchin (compared with 30 minutes for a normal Saturday service), but on the plus side the journey was pleasant and comfortable. Proves how decent rail travel can be and that it's the passengers that quite often make rail travel so unpleasant at times.

It's worth adding there was absolutely no information or guidance from "the railway", all decisions were based upon my own past-experience and judgment, even information about where trains were going and stopping was non-existant. Had I turned up at Moorgate 10 minutes later and missed the WGC train then the journey could have been very much worse.

 

[LAX54]

The TOCs have to take the flak every time while Network Rail and DaFT who are responsible for many of the wrongs on the system can hide in the background.

Have NR hidden away ? Both Mr Carne and Mr Gisby have been on TV apologising, but IF it's manpower issues for ontrack stuff, then is that not outside of NR's hands ??
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I wont pretend i know the layout down there so dont shoot me but would it not be possible to slip a couple of 125 sets into Liverpool Street

Pre-Privatisation this is what would have happened I have no doubt, but now its route knowledge, traction clearance etc etc, plus of course any work on the WA route !

 

[Robertj21a]

There might not have been the drivers available for the buses and looking at the crowding outside the station, would it have even been safe to have buses there? Looking at the station on Google Earth, the people were right over where the buses would have stopped so it'd probably caused as many problems in itself

There are specific bus drivers always available to meet such emergency requirements. The local buses were still stopping outside so a dedicated rail replacement bus would have simply removed some of the waiting masses and taken them to wherever. At least it would have shown that something tangible was happening.

 

[21C101]

This turned up as a 4 carriage train. What the hell were GN doing running 4 carriage trains. Full and standing upon arrival no chance of everyone waiting getting on.

Next up was the 1110 which arrived at 1121. Again another 4 car train, full and standing. I had to encourage passengers to move right down inside the car so more people could board, it was nice to be thanked by other passengers for doing this.

Well if further proof was needed that no proper emergency timetable planning was done in advance, surely GN running 4 car trains provides it.

Sir Eustace Missenden must be spinning in his grave.

 

[petersi]

Not all stations on the Cambridge branch can take 8 car trains
What happened to plans for an extra passenger bridge at Finsbury Park ?

 

[bramling]

Not all stations on the Cambridge branch can take 8 car trains
What happened to plans for an extra passenger bridge at Finsbury Park ?

The issue of short platforms on the Cambridge branch is not necessarily a show-stopper, as it's feasible to run longer trains non-stop between Cambridge and Royston, and have a single unit shuttling up and down between the two to cover the intermediate stations. In any form of engineering work situation this situation is highly preferable to having 4-car trains running in to London.

I think in the longer term it would be worthwhile to modify the track layout to allow terminating in more platforms at Finsbury Park. An opportunity was missed to do this as part of the recent capacity works in the area.