EU Referendum: The result and aftermath...

[Jonny]

So who do you want a trade deal with?

We hear so much about how UK will be free to trade deals but I am not sure what amazing new markets the UK is going to find.

Also much talk of exit with NO Deal and trading on WTO terms, this appears to be much less straight forward than we have been led to believe - our Schedule has already been contested by a number of countries and it is not all clear to what extent we can roll over the 60 to 100 existing trade deals the EU already has.

Well, the UK is a former GATT signatory and thus is entitled to founder membership, so that rolls over past any EU issues.

And if we default or refuse to pay our divorce settlement to the EU, as these are international treaty obligations we have committed to, dealing with other nations will be even harder as we will be seem as untrustworthy.

The damage will be to Europe, starting with EU projects lacking finance (as well as port congestion) and spreading out in concentric circles. The EU cannot hurt Britain without hurting itself.

 

[Jonny]

Besides, just look at remain campaigners to see what snobs look like. If you support the EU you support first-order snobs like Eloise Todd and Gina Miller, also slimy MPs like Anna Soubry and Dominic Grieve, as well as the snobs in the House of Lords.

Any organisation that claims to know what is "Best for Britain" is so far up its own behind with snobbery and arrogance that it cannot be trusted.

 

[Bromley boy]

Besides, just look at remain campaigners to see what snobs look like. If you support the EU you support first-order snobs like Eloise Todd and Gina Miller, also slimy MPs like Anna Soubry and Dominic Grieve, as well as the snobs in the House of Lords.

Any organisation that claims to know what is "Best for Britain" is so far up its own behind with snobbery and arrogance that it cannot be trusted.

For “best for Britain” read “less likely to depress the price of my multi-million pound pad in Kensington.” (Or the hubby’s house in the case of Gina Miller).

For all the negative press he receives, at least Farage is a conviction politician. That’s more than you can say about many in the remain camp, including the current PM, and the last one.

It’s interesting to observe that the current Labour leader is also a conviction politician (albeit the wrong convictions), who is in favour of leaving (for the wrong reasons)!

 

[trash80]

Yes Farage is so convinced he did the right thing he got his sons German EU citizenship after the referendum

 

[Puffing Devil]

Well, the UK is a former GATT signatory and thus is entitled to founder membership, so that rolls over past any EU issues.

The damage will be to Europe, starting with EU projects lacking finance (as well as port congestion) and spreading out in concentric circles. The EU cannot hurt Britain without hurting itself.

Please explain what you mean by this and how we'll be in a better trading position than we are now?

 

[Howardh]

My shares collapse, seems the Brexit-supporting Daily Telegraph think it's Brexit-related although admittedly it's more to do with the "deadlock" than Brexit itself. Mind you, if we weren't leaving there's be no deadlock. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/busines...smith-shares-go-reverse-road-building-delays/

Motorway barrier maker Hill & Smith shed a quarter of its value in just one day as the Brexit deadlock and delays to road revamp plans put its shares into reverse gear.
The FTSE 250 company suffered a 14pc decline in pre-tax profit at the interim stage with the delays to the new “smart” motorway projects and the cold snap in the first quarter holding back trading.
Hill & Smith predicted a stronger second half of the year ahead but admitted that it will not claw back the shortfall made in its first half amid a “cautious investment environment in the UK”.

 

[Groningen]

Yes Farage is so convinced he did the right thing he got his sons German EU citizenship after the referendum

Are you absolutely sure?

 

[eotw]

Are you absolutely sure?

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...-children-hold-german-as-well-as-uk-passports

 

[eotw]

Well, the UK is a former GATT signatory and thus is entitled to founder membership, so that rolls over past any EU issues.


The damage will be to Europe, starting with EU projects lacking finance (as well as port congestion) and spreading out in concentric circles. The EU cannot hurt Britain without hurting itself.

Yes, the UK has a seat at the WTO, successor of GATT, but it does not have a Schedule. The Schedule has to be agreed by the other members, we submitted a schedule and 7 countries have already raised objections. Negotiations to agree this can take up to 10 years.

See https://www.newlawjournal.co.uk/content/brexit-uk-set-wto-limbo

Of course withholding our settlement will hurt the EU but loss of access to EU markets would hurt us much more.

Finally, you didn't answer my question. Who do you want to do trade deals with?

 

[Groningen]

Ok, but Nigel Farage divorced from Kirsten Mehr. They are not a couple anymore. Nick Clegg is married to a Spanish woman and their children have also a Spanish passport.

 

[eotw]

Ok, but Nigel Farage divorced from Kirsten Mehr. They are not a couple anymore. Nick Clegg is married to a Spanish woman and their children have also a Spanish passport.

What has Nick Clegg got to do with it?

 

[Groningen]

2 passports; 1 for Spain and 1 for the UK.

 

[nlogax]

2 passports; 1 for Spain and 1 for the UK.

I think you've entirely missed the point..

 

[furnessvale]

I think you've entirely missed the point..

The point being that two of Farage's children hold dual nationality, and like many such people, hold passports for both nationalities (The German one probably at the insistence of his now divorced GERMAN wife).

This can be most useful if you ever need to visit both Israel and certain Arab countries for example.

Mundane, but never let the truth get in the way of a good rant!

 

[Puffing Devil]

One more rat leaving the "Good Ship Brexit"

Sir Jim Ratcliffe, Britain’s wealthiest man and a key Brexit backer, has decided to leave the UK and live in Monaco.

Despite his previous claims that the UK would be “perfectly successful” outside of the European Union (EU), the billionaire has chosen to leave the country of his birth and move to the principality, whose residents do not pay income tax, on the Mediterranean coast.​

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...-monaco-move-tax-haven-eu-leave-a8484211.html

 

[Howardh]

One more rat leaving the "Good Ship Brexit"

Sir Jim Ratcliffe, Britain’s wealthiest man and a key Brexit backer, has decided to leave the UK and live in Monaco.

Despite his previous claims that the UK would be “perfectly successful” outside of the European Union (EU), the billionaire has chosen to leave the country of his birth and move to the principality, whose residents do not pay income tax, on the Mediterranean coast.​

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...-monaco-move-tax-haven-eu-leave-a8484211.html

Not surprised and don't blame him, and I'd do the same (apart from the supporting Brexit bit). When all the rich have taken their money overseas and OUR taxes go up (not for the rich, naturally, can't have that), or we have even further austerity, or both, then I hope those who voted out will finally begin to admit they might have been slightly mistaken and a little bit misled. Power to them if they do, but I doubt it.

 

[najaB]

Has there ever been a point in the history of the EU where the U.K. receives more than it pays in?

I know this is digging up an old post, but... I just don't get this point - you've raised it several times but it still doesn't make sense.

In any kind of Union (Credit Union, Workers Union, etc.) some people will pay in more than they get out - it's basic maths, there's no way for everyone to take out more than they put in. And if everyone took out exactly the amount that they put in, then what's the point?

 

[AlterEgo]

I know this is digging up an old post, but... I just don't get this point - you've raised it several times but it still doesn't make sense.

In any kind of Union (Credit Union, Workers Union, etc.) some people will pay in more than they get out - it's basic maths, there's no way for everyone to take out more than they put in. And if everyone took out exactly the amount that they put in, then what's the point?

But in a credit union you’d be getting interest on the money you put in.

 

[najaB]

But in a credit union you’d be getting interest on the money you put in.

True, but the principle still applies - there have to be some net contributors or the pot will go dry eventually.

 

[Jonny]

Not surprised and don't blame him, and I'd do the same (apart from the supporting Brexit bit). When all the rich have taken their money overseas and OUR taxes go up (not for the rich, naturally, can't have that), or we have even further austerity, or both, then I hope those who voted out will finally begin to admit they might have been slightly mistaken and a little bit misled. Power to them if they do, but I doubt it.

True, but the principle still applies - there have to be some net contributors or the pot will go dry eventually.

Which is one of the factors behind the Laffer curve - those who are net contributors should still receive reasonable value and/or only have a minimal burden, otherwise they will leave and the others are left with the same bill and less means to pay it.

 

[najaB]

Which is one of the factors behind the Laffer curve - those who are net contributors should still receive reasonable value and/or only have a minimal burden...

I thought that we did, a larger percentage of those who voted apparently did not.

 

[AlterEgo]

True, but the principle still applies - there have to be some net contributors or the pot will go dry eventually.

I expect if you thought you weren’t getting a return from the credit union you’d close your account and leave.

 

[45107]

(Genuine question) Has there ever been a point in the history of the EU where the U.K. receives more than it pays in?

Lets make a comparison to real life. You pay subs to ASLEF. How much do you see in return ?
WHy is the EU a cash cow ?

 

[AlterEgo]

Lets make a comparison to real life. You pay subs to ASLEF. How much do you see in return ?
WHy is the EU a cash cow ?

Imagine for the purposes of your analogy that ASLEF controlled quite a lot of your decisions, even ones which were not work-related, that ASLEF wasn’t just a professional drivers’ union but also represented and gave large cash dividends to people from trades you had nothing to do with, that you couldn’t vote for many of the people who made important decisions at ASLEF, that ASLEF wanted to merge you and some much less professional trades, and that ASLEF was based in another country.

 

[45107]

Imagine for the purposes of your analogy that ASLEF controlled quite a lot of your decisions, even ones which were not work-related, that ASLEF wasn’t just a professional drivers’ union but also represented and gave large cash dividends to people from trades you had nothing to do with, that you couldn’t vote for many of the people who made important decisions at ASLEF, that ASLEF wanted to merge you and some much less professional trades, and that ASLEF was based in another country.

The analogy was related to the purposes of a union where the members have a say in its activities We choose to elect UKIP MEPs who have no interest in protecting the U.K. and are more concerned with disrupting the EU Parliament and claiming as much as possible in expenses.
The UK parliament has always been sovereign. It had/has a veto
Can you give examples where the UK government has funded EU projects or followed rulings it has objected too ?
Working time directive springs to mind, but in favour of the bosses rather than the workers.

 

[Jonny]

The analogy was related to the purposes of a union where the members have a say in its activities We choose to elect UKIP MEPs who have no interest in protecting the U.K. and are more concerned with disrupting the EU Parliament and claiming as much as possible in expenses.
The UK parliament has always been sovereign. It had/has a veto
Can you give examples where the UK government has funded EU projects or followed rulings it has objected too ?
Working time directive springs to mind, but in favour of the bosses rather than the workers.

The UK veto is of limited use as there is a liability to fines from the European Commission if a directive is not implemented.

 

[najaB]

I expect if you thought you weren’t getting a return from the credit union you’d close your account and leave.

The return doesn't have to be purely financial. Stop deliberately missing the point.

 

[mmh]

The analogy was related to the purposes of a union where the members have a say in its activities We choose to elect UKIP MEPs who have no interest in protecting the U.K. and are more concerned with disrupting the EU Parliament and claiming as much as possible in expenses.
The UK parliament has always been sovereign. It had/has a veto
Can you give examples where the UK government has funded EU projects or followed rulings it has objected too ?
Working time directive springs to mind, but in favour of the bosses rather than the workers.

I'm sorry, but you clearly have no idea what you're talking about. You've been EU-washed ilike so many others into believing that everything is to do with the EU.

There is no EU minimum wage legislation, countries - and not all - have chosen their own.
The EU does not enforce sexuality and marriage equality because they've shamefully not got the gumption to try to.
The EU does mandate a farcically bad amount of maternity leave which Britain far exceeds and is one of the best.
The EU says workers should have 4 weeks holiday a year. The UK says 5.6 weeks.
UK employment law allows for collective bargaining, the EU has repeatedly attacked it.

We have far better worker protection than the EU gives us.

 

[AlterEgo]

The return doesn't have to be purely financial. Stop deliberately missing the point.

It’s not missing the point - the person posing the analogy does, by reducing the EU to just a place where money goes in and out. Part of the reason people are leaving is because they don’t think we’re getting back a fair return considering what we put in. I wasn’t on about finances. The credit union analogy is daft, because the EU is far more than that. It’s not a piggy bank but a political union where all members are bound by some of the Laws it makes. Also, the EU doesn’t loan money to Bulgaria or Romania for certain projects but actually gives it to them.

It would be more accurate to describe the EU as a charity.

The EU hasn’t done very much for Britain it couldn’t have done itself with the political will. There are people who think the EU is necessary to “oversee” the UK and supervise it, which I find depressing.

 

[trash80]

What i find depressing is the poor way the UK is run that it does require the EU to supervise it.

But then again we get the politicians we deserve, few people have any real interest in how the country is run or taking part so we shouldn't really be surprised by a vacuum in talent in government (at all levels).

How many people are members of political parties? Campaign? Take part in civic debate? Read political/economic articles instead of which celeb is sleeping with who? A small minority in all cases. So we shouldn't be surprised at the crap rising to the top should we? No instead we can moan about all politicians being the same and why doesn't X get done.

Anyway entering rant territory...