EU Referendum: The result and aftermath...

[ExRes]

Trading suspended on Bank shares due to plummeting share prices. We are only into the second business day after Brexit. This is an absolute disaster for the UK.

One bank

 

[YorkshireBear]

One bank

Two banks

 

[EM2]

Trading suspended on Bank shares due to plummeting share prices. We are only into the second business day after Brexit. This is an absolute disaster for the UK.

As well as EasyJet, Taylor Wimpey, Barratt, RBS all dropping by over 10%.
The gilt yield on UK government bonds being at its lowest ever.
The pound down to $1.32 (lower than Friday).
The FTSE250 down another 3.5%.

 

[northwichcat]

This would be an extension of the existing deal for people from Northern Ireland.

But why would they extend it? The Irish Republic believe there should be a unified Ireland so treat NI very differently to the rest of the UK.

so need not necessarily involve the UK government.

Precisely the point I was making. The Irish government don't have to offer it but might be willing to offer it if Britain gives them something they want. Unless the Irish government makes huge profits from passports why would they want to issue a load of Britains wishing to live in Italy their passports?

Such a brokered deal could be with any of the 27 member states

That would be controversial but again the deal might involve another country getting something from Britain. For instance, agreeing that Spain can have at least some control over Gibraltar or allowing Gibraltar to become independent and join the EU.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

One bank

RBS and Barclays shares temporarily suspended
Posted at 09:41

Bank shares have fallen so sharply that trading in Royal Bank of Scotland and Barclays stock was temporarily suspended on the London Stock Exchange. Trading has now resumed.

From BBC Website

 

[Harbornite]

So as well as racism, xenophobia, ignorance and idiocy, we now have misogyny on this thread too? What a great advert for Britain you people are.

Boo hoo, can't you take a joke? Anyway, chloroform works on men too. As for your last sentence, i'm not sure why you are lumping me in with people who have shown racism and xenophobia etc, as I voted remain. Don't refer to me as "you people" because you don't know anything about me. If you actually knew me as a person, then classing me as a misogynist wouldn't spring to mind.

Moving on from that, this economic news is concerning and that's the price some people are willing to pay for a bit of extra sovereignty. Having said that, these things will eventually recover, although this isn't the ideal scenario.

 

[miami]

The biggest concern I the free movement issue. The British people and the EU can both see our infrastructure can't cope with the amount of immigrant/EU citizens coming to this country. The EU have already given at least one warning about this. We need to have some sort of short term restrictions, even if its like the night club analogy of one in one out, until we have the housing and everything that goes with.

I suspect the EU would want us to stop ALL migration from outside of the EU first -- and the majority of migration is from outside the EU.

 

[Antman]

It's an absolute farce.

You've got Farage and IDS frantically rowing back from the £350m figure as it transpires that it was lie (quelle surprise!)

You've got areas that voted Brexit (Cornwall and Wales) now frantically seeking assurances that they won't lose any funding by exiting the EU

The best we can hope for is a deal with into the EEA to access the single market which has the majority of the perceived disbenefits (i.e. free movement of people, adherence to EU regulations) with any opportunity to influence things

A likely relocation of the border to Kent (rather than Calais) so that those people who voted against the EU now have the problem of dealing with migrants in their back yard rather than across the water

And a period of economic uncertainty that at best will see things flatline and at worst have a recession - a recession that we've actually gone and voted for!

I mean..... you can't make this stuff up. If it wasn't reality, you'd swear it was a comedy sketch (like the Long Johns)

You just carry on scaremongering!

 

[Harbornite]

You just carry on scaremongering!

Not really, that's just called being realistic.

 

[90sWereBetter]

You just carry on scaremongering!

[img="http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m1qgdfiefC1qi6mxw.gif"]http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m1qgdfiefC1qi6mxw.gif[/img]

Is this chap for real or what? :roll:

 

[Bodiddly]

One bank

So far...

 

[northwichcat]

You just carry on scaremongering!

Don't worry Boris has obviously got a full plan for Brexit but wants to keep it top secret for some reason, almost as if they'll be an election and he thinks Labour will steal his ideas. :roll:

 

[me123]

You just carry on scaremongering!

"Project Fear" is starting to look like an improvement! Face it. You ****ed up. The country is screwed at the moment. EasyJet have just lost 19% of their share value. RBS 14%. The pound continues to drop. It's an economic disaster.

 

[Bodiddly]

There is no need for scaremongering. It's scary enough as it is.

 

[muz379]

The BBC didn't quote this part of Boris' text:



So how on earth does he expect the EU to accept free movement for UK citizens whilst imposing a points system in the other direction?

The consensus among my politically engaged friends is that Johnson is going to try and negotiate EEA membership with the EU

Whilst simultaneously implementing an Australian points based system for non EU migrants (apart from those coming in line with our obligations under the refugee convention ofc) He is then going to claim a great victory for implementing this system hoping the electorate are stupid enough to not understand the difference between eu and non eu migrants . Given some of the debate I have seen pre and post referendum has been about getting rid of Syrians I think he may well be onto something with that .

But in reality it will change precious little . What shortfall we have in non eu migrants due to the implementation of this system will be made up in firms seeking eu migrants instead . And of course with EEA membership there is the risk of more countries joining the EU without our veto .

But immigration is precisely why people voted leave in many areas! Saying numbers wont be controlled by leaving is not going to play well with many pro brexit voters.

But we dont know how many of the 52% voted just on grounds of migration . Nobody in Westminster knows . All they do know is that EEA membership does very little to actually implement the will of the leave voters who did so on the grounds of immigration and therein lies the problem .Nobody wants to firmly pin their flag to the mast of the EEA ship because to do so could potentially be electoral suicide . But to pin your flag to the mast of the leave the EU and revert to WTO rules is in the eyes of many leading economists economic suicide . Gove and Johnson are too scared to actually cash the "sick of hearing from experts cheque" because the stakes are far too high .

RBS and Barclays shares temporarily suspended
Posted at 09:41

Bank shares have fallen so sharply that trading in Royal Bank of Scotland and Barclays stock was temporarily suspended on the London Stock Exchange. Trading has now resumed.

From BBC Website

Lets suspend the hysteria a little bit here , it is shocking what is happening on the markets . But the suspension of trading in certain shares is hardly groundbreaking , its an automatic measure taken when a share falls too quickly to ensure that prices can be generated and so that trades can actually be executed .

 

[Antman]

There is no need for scaremongering. It's scary enough as it is.

It's just the same old thing ad nauseam, people who didn't get the outcome that they wanted and now the toys come out the pram. This contrasts starkly with the smugness on here on Thursday evening when they thought they had it in the bag.

Enjoy those sour grapes

 

[ainsworth74]

So no informal talks then:

There will be no informal discussions between Britain and the European Union before the British government has invoked formal divorce proceedings by making the Article 50 request, a German government spokesman said on Monday.

"One thing is clear: before Britain has sent this request there will be no informal preliminary talks about the modalities of leaving," Steffen Seibert, spokesman for Chancellor Angela Merkel, told a regular news conference.

"Only when Britain has made the request according to Article 50 will the European Council draw up guidelines in consensus for an exit agreement," he added.

Reuters

 

[northwichcat]

It's just the same old thing ad nauseam, people who didn't get the outcome that they wanted and now the toys come out the pram. This contrasts starkly with the smugness on here on Thursday evening when they thought they had it in the bag.

Enjoy those sour grapes

The problem is Leave thought Remain had it in the bag more than the Remain voters and haven't told us anything about what will happen now, expect that the two key claims they made were lies. So as there are 0 confirmed benefits of leaving the EU and hundreds of potential risks it means our economy is now suffering as no-one wants to invest and people who have invested want to withdraw due to the risks.

 

[miami]

The consensus among my politically engaged friends is that Johnson is going to try and negotiate EEA membership with the EU

Whilst simultaneously implementing an Australian points based system for non EU migrants (apart from those coming in line with our obligations under the refugee convention ofc) He is then going to claim a great victory for implementing this system hoping the electorate are stupid enough to not understand the difference between eu and non eu migrants . Given some of the debate I have seen pre and post referendum has been about getting rid of Syrians I think he may well be onto something with that .

Didn't we already have that? But also had a veto against a lot of regulations? And a veto to stop Turkey and Syria joining?

This guy will be happy with your deal though:

How did people immigrate from outside the EU last week? I thought we had a points system? We certainly had full control over the 188,000 (net) people a year that came from outside the EU.

Lets suspend the hysteria a little bit here , it is shocking what is happening on the markets . But the suspension of trading in certain shares is hardly groundbreaking , its an automatic measure taken when a share falls too quickly to ensure that prices can be generated and so that trades can actually be executed .

Quite. The economic fall out from this will take years to become apparent, and then only "experts" will be able to see it so the usual suspects will simply ignore it.

What's the betting on who gets the blame in 5 years time? Back to benefit scroungers? The "I've got 6 kids and no job, now give me a new house" type? They've had an easy time of it while the Mail etc. have been harping on about immigrants.

 

[Howardh]

It's just the same old thing ad nauseam, people who didn't get the outcome that they wanted and now the toys come out the pram. This contrasts starkly with the smugness on here on Thursday evening when they thought they had it in the bag.

Enjoy those sour grapes

At what point do you accept that - even if Brexit goes ahead - that it won't be the full-on leave that even your own Glorious Leaders are backing away from (hey, has Boris The Great invoked Article 50 yet? When??) - it will be so watered-down to be acceptable to the majority of the public and the majority of the EU that it won't be recognisable?

 

[miami]

"Project Fear" is starting to look like an improvement! Face it. You ****ed up. The country is screwed at the moment. EasyJet have just lost 19% of their share value. RBS 14%. The pound continues to drop. It's an economic disaster.

Not for people who shorted last week, or Brits who invested in foreign currencies.

 

[crehld]

Well I've been away from the forum for a couple of days so this is really my first opportunity to share my thoughts on there about the verdict.

To say I'm disappointed would be an understatement. To my mind this will go down as one of the biggest examples national self-harm in history.

The media cries with shouts of "Britain has decided" but this is a rather simplistic analysis of the situation. The result reveals a heavily divided society in which around half of it voted to leave and the other half voted to remain. The margin of majority (less than four percentage points) is incredibly slight. The Ashcroft poll revealed the day after the vote sheds some light of the key faultlines of this divided society for anyone that is interested in informed and factual analysis rather than baseless speculation.

The will of the majority, however, it is. On a personal level I struggle with this - not the verdict itself, which I respect (calls for parliament to ignore the result, second referendums, and so on are pointless given the decision has been made), but what it means for my own identity and what it means for the politics of this country. If this slight majority verdict is a reflection on what it means to be British - insular, isolated, xenophobic, lacking vision and prosperity - then this calls into question my own identity of something that I was hitherto proud to call myself.

Many of Vote Leave's key campaign promises are quickly unravelling. £350m per week extra for the NHS: a lie. Control over immigration: a lie. Reduced levels of migration: a lie. No economic impact: a lie. Control over our destiny: a lie. The fact key advocates of Leave now distance themselves from these statements demonstrates their wilful and malicious intent to mislead the British public. Much of the referendum campaign was about a mistrust in our politics - unfortunately undeliverable promises which will never be realized will only increase this sense of mistrust. Indeed, Boris's 'manifesto' in the Telegraph today for our post-Brexit relationship with the EU (i.e. access to the single market, free movement of people - looks like the Norway model) might be better summarized simply as "membership of the European Union", albeit without the ability to shape the laws and policy which will inevitably continue to affect us - which does beg two questions. How does this represent Take Back Control? And what was the whole point of this sorry affair? Unless there were some sort of personal gains for the political elite ... hmmm.

The fact the media has been almost exclusively focused on the fallout in Westminster confirms for me this referendum was nothing about the EU, and everything about our domestic politics. When the referendum was first called I posted on here that it was evidence of a crisis in political leadership and would decrease the quality of our democracy as it would allow political leaders to simply absolve themselves of the responsibility for the negative consequences of a decision made by the masses. I stand by this assertion, and the stunning lack of leadership being displayed in Westminster at present illustrates this nicely. The fact key leavers are now freely and openly admitting their wilful deceit of the British public and not facing stronger scrutiny confirms that this has not been an exercise in democracy, but in absolving our political elite of accountability.

 

[muz379]

Didn't we already have that? But also had a veto against a lot of regulations? And a veto to stop Turkey and Syria joining?

This guy will be happy with your deal though:

How did people immigrate from outside the EU last week? I thought we had a points system? We certainly had full control over the 188,000 (net) people a year that came from outside the EU.

Oh I agree completely , but as I said in the rest of my post . We dont know how many of the 17 million leave voters are representative of the views of that man and how many are representative of the views of get all migrants out types . Nor does anyone in Westminster .

Its all good and well sharing pictures showing the views of one man and his dog . But politics in this country has always been as a result of majority held views . And this referendum has given us no indication of the majority held view

 

[crehld]

So no informal talks then:



Reuters

Informal talks were never on the cards. This was made clear by all the other EU member states during Cameron's now voided renegotiation, and during the referendum campaign. It was delusional for anyone to think otherwise.

 

[DarloRich]

Well I've been away from the forum for a couple of days so this is really my first opportunity to share my thoughts on there about the verdict.

To say I'm disappointed would be an understatement. To my mind this will go down as one of the biggest examples national self-harm in history.

The media cries with shouts of "Britain has decided" but this is a rather simplistic analysis of the situation. The result reveals a heavily divided society in which around half of it voted to leave and the other half voted to remain. The margin of majority (less than four percentage points) is incredibly slight. The Ashcroft poll revealed the day after the vote sheds some light of the key faultlines of this divided society for anyone that is interested in informed and factual analysis rather than baseless speculation.

The will of the majority, however, it is. On a personal level I struggle with this - not the verdict itself, which I respect (calls for parliament to ignore the result, second referendums, and so on are pointless given the decision has been made), but what it means for my own identity and what it means for the politics of this country. If this slight majority verdict is a reflection on what it means to be British - insular, isolated, xenophobic, lacking vision and prosperity - then this calls into question my own identity of something that I was hitherto proud to call myself.

Many of Vote Leave's key campaign promises are quickly unravelling. £350m per week extra for the NHS: a lie. Control over immigration: a lie. Reduced levels of migration: a lie. No economic impact: a lie. Control over our destiny: a lie. The fact key advocates of Leave now distance themselves from these statements demonstrates their wilful and malicious intent to mislead the British public. Much of the referendum campaign was about a mistrust in our politics - unfortunately undeliverable promises which will never be realized will only increase this sense of mistrust. Indeed, Boris's 'manifesto' in the Telegraph today for our post-Brexit relationship with the EU (i.e. access to the single market, free movement of people - looks like the Norway model) might be better summarized simply as "membership of the European Union", albeit without the ability to shape the laws and policy which will inevitably continue to affect us - which does beg two questions. How does this represent Take Back Control? And what was the whole point of this sorry affair? Unless there were some sort of personal gains for the political elite ... hmmm.

The fact the media has been almost exclusively focused on the fallout in Westminster confirms for me this referendum was nothing about the EU, and everything about our domestic politics. When the referendum was first called I posted on here that it was evidence of a crisis in political leadership and would decrease the quality of our democracy as it would allow political leaders to simply absolve themselves of the responsibility for the negative consequences of a decision made by the masses. I stand by this assertion, and the stunning lack of leadership being displayed in Westminster at present illustrates this nicely. The fact key leavers are now freely and openly admitting their wilful deceit of the British public and not facing stronger scrutiny confirms that this has not been an exercise in democracy, but in absolving our political elite of accountability.

I think that is a very good post.

 

[Butts]

From a Scottish Unionist perspective the fact that Wales voted for a Brexit was an important result.

The "Nicola and Leanne" show was derailed before it even started.

It prevented Sturgeon turning it into an England v Scotland battle as the taffs scuppered that prospect.

There is hope for the Union yet

 

[Domh245]

It's a shame that, finally after getting the opportunity to study in the UK for Erasmus, such referendum had to had such catastrophic results. I'm not even sure if the programme is secured anymore in the UK... and although this may turn out to be financially advantageous for me (€ to £), I'm afraid I may end up being treated harshly by local citizens. I don't feel safe anymore about betting so enthusiastically in the UK...

Whilst this post (like yours) may be lost amongst the rest of the discussion, I have some good news! On Friday Morning, I received an email from the Vice-Chancellor of the University of Nottingham stressing that nothing is going to change immediately. It also had this quote in it, that might be reassuring to you.

Unless the UK Government decides to take unilateral action, this vote does not mean there will be any immediate material change to the UK’s participation in EU programmes such as Horizon 2020 and Erasmus+, nor to the immigration status of current and prospective EU students and staff.

And given the Governments rather severe heel dragging over this whole thing, I doubt there will be any unilateral action. If you do still come here, there is a good chance that you'll be accepted just fine, after all a lot of University cities voted remain. All you've got to do is stay away from the areas with a high proportion of knuckle dragging Troglodytes

Absolutely true. But it's still the only sane option, isn't it?

The sane option would be to remain in the EU but push for more reform. Obviously the country is unhappy with the EU (as shown by the result) but equally half the country wants to stay in it. Whatever happens is going to irritate half of the country, so if you are going to do so, you might as well take the least worst option.

Or at least, that is what I (as a remain supporter) would do.

 

[Gutfright]

The problem is Leave thought Remain had it in the bag more than the Remain voters and haven't told us anything about what will happen now, expect that the two key claims they made were lies. So as there are 0 confirmed benefits of leaving the EU and hundreds of potential risks it means our economy is now suffering as no-one wants to invest and people who have invested want to withdraw due to the risks.

This is why in my opinion Davis Cameron has been a bit of a d*ck. Article 50 should have been invoked on Friday. If our PM were as patriotic as he likes to make out, he should have swallowed his pride and tried to negotiate the best deal possible for Britain.

But his ego won't allow that. He doesn't want to be remembered as the man who took us out of the EU.

So now we have this period of uncertainty being extended unnecessarily, which is bad for Britain and bad for the EU.

 

[radamfi]

If this slight majority verdict is a reflection on what it means to be British - insular, isolated, xenophobic, lacking vision and prosperity - then this calls into question my own identity of something that I was hitherto proud to call myself.

In my heart I am no longer British. I had virtually given up on Britain already but I wish I could burn my UK passport right now and get another nationality straight away.

I find myself now wanting to avoid British goods and deliberately choose EU ones in preference.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

From a Scottish Unionist perspective the fact that Wales voted for a Brexit was an important result.

The "Nicola and Leanne" show was derailed before it even started.

It prevented Sturgeon turning it into an England v Scotland battle as the taffs scuppered that prospect.

There is hope for the Union yet

It has always been England and Wales together. Wales is so up England's backside that they allow the cricket team to be called "England" even though it represents England and Wales. Could you imagine an England and Scotland team being just called "England", in any sport?

 

[Domh245]

This is why in my opinion Davis Cameron has been a bit of a d*ck. Article 50 should have been invoked on Friday. If our PM were as patriotic as he likes to make out, he should have swallowed his pride and tried to negotiate the best deal possible for Britain.

Equally, as someone who campaigned for a remain vote, why should he have to do the dirty work? Looking at this from the perspective of the Conservative leadership struggle, why should Cameron do all of the leg work and then hand it all on a platter to Boris?

But I agree with the sentiment about Cameron though. In an attempt to appease his party he has broken the UK.