First win Intercity West Coast franchise

[MidlandMainlie]

You may know more than me as the only information I have seen is in the challenge to First Group letter in the media room on the Virgin trains website. I'm sorry I can't remember how long the platforms are at Motherwell, I can just about remember travelling in a Mk 3 on the Clansman from Inverness and if I remember right the Glasgow portion was added at Carstairs.

I think I may have read it in one of the newspapers covering the story in the few days after the announcement (can’t remember which one) I do remember thinking when I read the line “dependent on electrification” that it won’t be happening due to EGIP then!

 

[Metroland]

So now he's leaking the fact that he's been having private briefings with politicians?

Armando Iannucci would struggle to write this...

All big companies have private meetings with politicians and lobbying in the country is rife, I think there are something like 30,000 lobbyists in the UK. That's the way the world works.

 

[tbtc]

All big companies have private meetings with politicians and lobbying in the country is rife, I think there are something like 30,000 lobbyists in the UK. That's the way the world works.

Yup - there's a lot of shabby deals cooked up in private away from public scrutiny.

I just liked the fact that Branson appears to have had these secret meetings and is now boasting about having done so, which kind of ruins the point
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

If it was a franchise commitment and Virgin had won then I suppose they would have to run the service whether or not it was electrified and it would have to have been another drag.

Talking of drags, nobody seems to know how Virgin would run an hourly Chester service with a wholly EMU fleet - a few drags a day might work, but not an hourly service (when turnaround times are being pared back).

 

[asylumxl]

In response to things about VM, I'd recommend using Virgin Media's forum, where you can talk to someone in the know rather than some bafoon in a call centre.

I raised an issue on there, and had an engineer sort the issue very soon after.

For some reason the call centre is reluctant to send out engineers, probably means more work for themselves...

 

[David10]

Talking of drags, nobody seems to know how Virgin would run an hourly Chester service with a wholly EMU fleet - a few drags a day might work, but not an hourly service (when turnaround times are being pared back).

I think it was planned that the baby Pendos would operate in push-pull formation with new locos. Both would have permanently exposed Dellners so would be no time consuming than when 2 Voyagers couple. If the services used Platform 12 at Crewe the loco off the London bound service could remain at the platform for the next Chester bound service saving a light engine move.

 

[Wath Yard]

Gets a bit messy though when there's a delay on the service from North Wales and the loco is still en-route.

I'm also not sure they would be allowed to block P12 all day. It isn't used much for passenger services but is used a fair bit for various ECS and special workings, and run rounds.

 

[tbtc]

I think it was planned that the baby Pendos would operate in push-pull formation with new locos. Both would have permanently exposed Dellners so would be no time consuming than when 2 Voyagers couple. If the services used Platform 12 at Crewe the loco off the London bound service could remain at the platform for the next Chester bound service saving a light engine move.

It might work, but I can't think of any recent examples of such an intensive number of drags.

Not helped by the fact that some Voyagers split at Chester with only one unit going through to Holyhead (plus the Wrexham splitter).

That said, it'd be fun to model something like that

 

[Erniescooper]

The challenge to First Group mentions services to Chirk, Gobowen and Ruabon, is it likely that some of the hourly services to Chester may be routed via Salop?

 

[jon0844]

In response to things about VM, I'd recommend using Virgin Media's forum, where you can talk to someone in the know rather than some bafoon in a call centre./QUOTE]

Ditto with TalkTalk.

When it comes to broadband, there's little chance you need anyone to come to your home to fix anything (assuming you didn't break something) so most faults will be in your road, or at the exchange - or a bigger problem that affects many users.

In nearly all cases, someone on the forum can check your account, do a range of tests, reset and change profiles and then - if necessary - seek to check the line itself, or replace equipment.

I've had no real problems, besides slightly disappointing speeds at some times. Customer services would almost certainly just give you the 'up to xx megabit' line and loads of other excuses, while I ended up having my profile changed, and fixed, that boosted me up from 5 to around 7 megabit, accepting slightly more errors that would normally see my speed dropped automatically.

 

[tbtc]

The challenge to First Group mentions services to Chirk, Gobowen and Ruabon, is it likely that some of the hourly services to Chester may be routed via Salop?

Could be - unless that was just to replace the token Wrexham service with extensions of Shrewsbury service (that'd be quite a time penalty for Chester - London passengers). Having said that, you never know

 

[Wath Yard]

I think we can treat the challenge to First the same way as we should treat everything else produced by the Virgin PR team. It's all spin.

 

[Lampshade]

The challenge to First Group mentions services to Chirk, Gobowen and Ruabon, is it likely that some of the hourly services to Chester may be routed via Salop?

Could be - unless that was just to replace the token Wrexham service with extensions of Shrewsbury service (that'd be quite a time penalty for Chester - London passengers). Having said that, you never know

Surely the answer is to run both the Wolverhampton and Chester services as circular routes?

The 'main' Chester service could run as usual, but then return via Wrexham, Shropshire and Wolverhampton, where it would run as the current Wolverhampton service.

The current Wolverhampton could be extended to Chester and advertised as Chester via Shrewsbury; upon arrival at Chester it would return to London via Crewe and the WCML.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

The trouble with loop services thought is that if it gets delayed at one end it can be very difficult at times to shake off the delay in time for its return (if you see what I mean) - for example if the Chester via WCML service loses time at say Stafford, it might not be able to regain it fully before Wolves (after Chester and Shropshire) so it gets delayed further waiting for paths through the Black Country and Coventry or similar, and you then have two services delayed instead of one, leading to more pay out potentially for delays. It's why the Todmorden Curve service isn't being considered for through services back to Manchester via Bolton.

 

[jcevans]

Had a look at the First Great Western Facebook page...jeez I have never seen a TOC with so much criticism. Some of the abuse they get is awful. TBH- is it really worth using customer service reps?

I then had a look at Virgin trains (went right back to end of 2011) and there was indeed so many more happy passengers.

Surprising given they have such a poor customer service record comparably.

 

[richw]

Had a look at the First Great Western Facebook page...jeez I have never seen a TOC with so much criticism. Some of the abuse they get is awful. TBH- is it really worth using customer service reps?

I then had a look at Virgin trains (went right back to end of 2011) and there was indeed so many more happy passengers.

Surprising given they have such a poor customer service record comparably.

Fgw weak link is the 165/166 operated routes, have a better read through the Facebook posts and the majority are London commuters, more than 99% of comments on their twitter are relating to travel between stations east of reading and London. Go into Wales, the southwest and the intercity routes and fgw passengers are satisfied in the majority.
I believe this will have a large part in the satisfaction surveys results.

 

[Skimble19]

Don't forget far more people complain than give praise usually.. So for the number of complaints on the FGW page, far more people will be pleased.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The problem is the size of the train.
First would operate 221s, so unless you accept single-car working Wolverhampton to Euston, they are going to have to divide/attach somewhere (maybe twice on some circuits).

Virgin operating mini-Pendos and locos would have the same problem (although 6-car trains might mean less/no doubling up).
Add in the loco and you have a pretty complicated set of workings, with Crewe-Chester-Shrewsbury-Wolverhampton being the simplest for locos.
But you still have the dilemma of the same 6-car Pendolino potentially calling at both Chirk and Coventry: too much for one and too little for the other.

I'm not convinced about the practicability of either proposal without knowing the timetable.

 

[Pen Mill]

Had a look at the First Great Western Facebook page...jeez I have never seen a TOC with so much criticism. Some of the abuse they get is awful. TBH- is it really worth using customer service reps?

I then had a look at Virgin trains (went right back to end of 2011) and there was indeed so many more happy passengers.

Surprising given they have such a poor customer service record comparably.

I don't read fbook or twitter and can't see that changing any time soon.
Are a lot of the comments to do with this , the ICWC franchise ? which simply doesn't have anything to do with FGW .
I thought I'd read that on a rail forum.

 

[CC 72100]

Fgw weak link is the 165/166 operated routes, have a better read through the Facebook posts and the majority are London commuters, more than 99% of comments on their twitter are relating to travel between stations east of reading and London. Go into Wales, the southwest and the intercity routes and fgw passengers are satisfied in the majority.
I believe this will have a large part in the satisfaction surveys results.

Absolutely - most of the complaints come from the London commuters by the looks of it, and quite often its predictable stuff like the trains being busy (find me a London termini during rush hour which has trains arriving that aren't busy) and delays/ cancelled trains. Very rarely see complaints from any other part of the country.

It has to be said that at the moment there are a lot of people who seem to think as First Group = First Great Western, and that the WCML will be sent HSTs and try and compare Pad to Euston on their page. The FGW staff that man the page are good guys mind, and have responded quickly whenever I've had a query or compliment.

 

[jon0844]

I wonder how many people would regard Heathrow Express or Heathrow Connect (which I just used this morning) as poor services with old and dirty, delayed and overcrowded trains? Aren't both operated by, or partly by, First?

I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of support for the Virgin wasn't also from disgruntled FCC
(almost certainly just TL side) customers who don't even use Virgin a lot but just want to attack First for what they perceive to be the fault of the TOC as against Network Rail in almost all cases.

 

[David10]

I wonder how many people would regard Heathrow Express or Heathrow Connect (which I just used this morning) as poor services with old and dirty, delayed and overcrowded trains? Aren't both operated by, or partly by, First?

No both are run by BAA, Connect is a code share of sorts being a FGW service to Hayes & Harlington and a Connect service to Heathrow with BAA crew throughout.

 

[RPI]

No both are run by BAA, Connect is a code share of sorts being a FGW service to Hayes & Harlington and a Connect service to Heathrow with BAA crew throughout.

FGW RPI's/RPO's work on HC services between Hayes and Pad.

 

[Whistler40145]

Is it defined in the ICWC franchise that e.g. the Blackpool & Bolton services have to use Electric traction after the relevant lines are electrified?

 

[Lampshade]

Is it defined in the ICWC franchise that e.g. the Blackpool & Bolton services have to use Electric traction after the relevant lines are electrified?

Nope, but it'd be stupid not to.

 

[HH]

But Virgin are claiming they will run more services than they do now, yet the number of units will be the same. It doesnt quite work out.

I was just explaining why it does. Perhaps my explanation needed to be clearer, or maybe you'd like to re-read?

 

[shinkansen1966]

If she hasn't already, when does Justine Greening sign the new First franchise ?

 

[Mojo]

Talking of Virgin bidding for the lottery, are we sure they didn't win? The person who came second place last night got more money than the people who won the jackpot

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19454599

 

[Howardh]

Think First will be keeping the first-class lounges @ Euston and Manchester?

 

[All Line Rover]

Think First will be keeping the first-class lounges @ Euston and Manchester?

They'd better!

 

[Whistler40145]

I don't think that would go down very well with the 1st Class passengers.