First win Intercity West Coast franchise

[Hazlehead]

Try this link:

http://www.parliamentlive.tv/Main/Player.aspx?meetingId=11421

Nope same drivel as on tv haha. So anyway were any good points raised or just another load of misinformed statements?

 

[Wath Yard]

Mainly dross, but the odd interesting moment. I'm just hoping I haven't lost the will to live before the minister says something.

What were all the MPs who are so concerned about the decision being announced during the summer recess doing when the ITT was published? It always said it would be August and strangely none of them seemed bothered back then.

 

[HH]

What were all the MPs who are so concerned about the decision being announced during the summer recess doing when the ITT was published?

There was no bandwagon to jump on then...

 

[eastdyke]

The last MP spent valuable minutes talking about a town of less than 30,000 people with no Railway Station. This is what representation of the people is all about.
But probably had no useful place in this debate.

Interesting to note that the Franchise has so far not concerned any London MP's.

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Now talking about supermarkets, old people and buses.

And now bus stops!!!

 

[TheJRB]

The last MP pointed out (albeit incidentally) the real difference between FirstGroup and Virgin. FirstGroup will happily bid for a variety of franchises while Virgin only go for the longer distance operations (where satisfaction is no doubt easier to come by).

 

[HH]

The woman who was just on whingeing about her bus service took the debate to new depths...

 

[WillPS]

The woman who was just on whingeing about her bus service took the debate to new depths...

Agreed - really what the hell was that about!?

She also stated that a route was amended with 7 days notice which I'm sure is illegal?

 

[HH]

Eagle repeating the nonsense that fares can rise by RPI+1/3%+5% every year, which is total nonsense.

 

[Stats]

Eagle repeating the nonsense that fares can rise by RPI+1/3%+5% every year, which is total nonsense.

Nonsense? She is only quoting what is in the ITT

Increases in individual fares are limited to no more than RPI+1% +5% year-on-year in 2012 and RPI+3% +5% year-on-year for the years 2013 and 2014. Bidders should assume that increases in individual fares are limited to RPI+1+5% thereafter.

 

[HH]

Nonsense? She is only quoting what is in the ITT

Increases in individual fares are limited to no more than RPI+1% +5% year-on-year in 2012 and RPI+3% +5% year-on-year for the years 2013 and 2014. Bidders should assume that increases in individual fares are limited to RPI+1+5% thereafter.

It doesn't matter what is quoted in the ITT. She should know that there is also an overall cap on each fare, so that such a spate of such increases is not possible.

 

[tbtc]

The last MP spent valuable minutes talking about a town of less than 30,000 people with no Railway Station. This is what representation of the people is all about.
But probably had no useful place in this debate

As expected - the MPs all said that they wanted the chance to debate the issue, then when they did get the chance to debate the issue they talk a load of nonsense that was nothing to do with the bid.

 

[eastdyke]

As expected - the MPs all said that they wanted the chance to debate the issue, then when they did get the chance to debate the issue they talk a load of nonsense that was nothing to do with the bid.

Which is why I hope that we NEVER get a second chamber that is also elected.

 

[jon0844]

Some honest MPs merely caring only about the services serving their constituency, and to hell with anywhere else! As they no doubt should, as elected members of parliament.

However, that's not really a reason to pick one bid over another and therefore wasn't very relevant.

 

[Wath Yard]

What was the point? If it was to help the average member of the public understand the franchising process and reassure them the correct decision has been made then I suggest it failed miserably.

 

[eastdyke]

What was the point? If it was to help the average member of the public understand the franchising process and reassure them the correct decision has been made then I suggest it failed miserably.

Rosie Cooper, in her final remarks, referred to 'a bird in the hand' and the 'tooth fairy'.

I don't suppose RB would want to be either of those.

The whole thing was a waste of 3 hours for quite a lot of people, me included.

Politicians need to get re-elected and a dynamic railway is only relevant if it stops (or merely passes) in the constituency.

 

[jon0844]

I suspect the public (who signed the e-petition) weren't watching and will just visit the Virgin Trains website or whatever Facebook page they liked and get their slanted view from there - right up until a final decision is made and we see who is taking over come December.

There were some useful explanations made, including talk of First possibly seeking to lengthen more trains if demand rose faster than even they expected, that quite clearly showed that at the end of the day - it merely comes down to the best bid, which was First. There weren't really any other revelations, nor did I expect there to be.

Nobody that I saw speaking said that Virgin had done a bad job (despite the early days) or showed any hatred towards them but that doesn't mean you simply keep them on regardless of what they bid.

I didn't watch from 1800 onwards and it sounds like at some point it went off on a series of tangents, and if mentioning buses then I guess people were presumably trying to attack First on the basis of them being seen as a bus operator that dabbles in the railway business - thus trying (badly) to discredit them. Ignoring just how much of the network is already run by First Group!

 

[tbtc]

Which is why I hope that we NEVER get a second chamber that is also elected.

I used to support the idea of an elected second chamber, but nowadays... whilst it'd be more democratic than the current HoL it'd be a tokenistic talking shop.

All the MP for Fulchester cares about is which TOC would stop more trains in Fulchester - rather than what's best for the UK (or who'd pay more in premiums), which makes MPs possibly the worst people to make a decision over franchise bids.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I suspect the public (who signed the e-petition) weren't watching and will just visit the Virgin Trains website or whatever Facebook page they liked and get their slanted view from there - right up until a final decision is made and we see who is taking over come December

I wonder how many of the hundred thousand (plus) have forgotten about it now, or can't even remember why they signed it. It's *so* last week

 

[WatcherZero]

I suspect the public (who signed the e-petition) weren't watching and will just visit the Virgin Trains website or whatever Facebook page they liked and get their slanted view from there - right up until a final decision is made and we see who is taking over come December.

There were some useful explanations made, including talk of First possibly seeking to lengthen more trains if demand rose faster than even they expected, that quite clearly showed that at the end of the day - it merely comes down to the best bid, which was First. There weren't really any other revelations, nor did I expect there to be.

Nobody that I saw speaking said that Virgin had done a bad job (despite the early days) or showed any hatred towards them but that doesn't mean you simply keep them on regardless of what they bid.

I didn't watch from 1800 onwards and it sounds like at some point it went off on a series of tangents, and if mentioning buses then I guess people were presumably trying to attack First on the basis of them being seen as a bus operator that dabbles in the railway business - thus trying (badly) to discredit them. Ignoring just how much of the network is already run by First Group!

No they werent talking about First as a bus operator but the effect ending services between stops and changing routes has on the public, comparing the ending of regular bus services and the ending of regular train services and how many people will have moved home around their commute and may be forced to move if that commute was no longer possible. There was one MP who had a beef with First TPE changing calling points and missing out formerly served stations in her constituency.

 

[Wath Yard]

Yes she was talking about First as a bus operator. She clearly stated it on many occasions. The rest of her nonsense was also irrelevant as buses are deregulated and the railway isn't. First West Coast can't just decide it won't bother serving Liverpool.

 

[Howardh]

Looks like Virgin are running down their first-class service.

Man Picc lounge - still nice and comfy but the food on offer (mid-day) was an apple, a biscuit or a biscuit.
On the train the best they could offer was a small sandwich roll, packet of the smallest and oddest-shaped crisps this side of St Petersberg and a banana. Still got the statutory two teas and two glasses of wine!
Euston lounge - run-down grotty mess. Needs new furnishings and a new carpet. Sod all on offer foodwise save for biscuits even smaller than those at Picc. Took nearly ten minutes waiting for a bloke to serve me a can of Boddies @ £3.

Right, that's my last first-class Virgin trip. Used to be really good, now it's barely acceptable. First have nothing to beat there, if they are prepared to stump up the cash for decorating the lounges. And to get me back they are gonna have to prove (by advertising, probably) that it's better than it is now.

 

[FManc]

Looks like Virgin are running down their first-class service.

Man Picc lounge - still nice and comfy but the food on offer (mid-day) was an apple, a biscuit or a biscuit.
On the train the best they could offer was a small sandwich roll, packet of the smallest and oddest-shaped crisps this side of St Petersberg and a banana. Still got the statutory two teas and two glasses of wine!
Euston lounge - run-down grotty mess. Needs new furnishings and a new carpet. Sod all on offer foodwise save for biscuits even smaller than those at Picc. Took nearly ten minutes waiting for a bloke to serve me a can of Boddies @ £3.

Right, that's my last first-class Virgin trip. Used to be really good, now it's barely acceptable. First have nothing to beat there, if they are prepared to stump up the cash for decorating the lounges. And to get me back they are gonna have to prove (by advertising, probably) that it's better than it is now.

Well I've just received the new Autumn menu and the on-board service is not being reduced at all, so no the first-class (on-board) service is not being "run down".

 

[HH]

Well I've just received the new Autumn menu and the on-board service is not being reduced at all, so no the first-class (on-board) service is not being "run down".

While this may be true, the patchy nature of their First Class Lounges is also true; as is the poor offer on train during the day (i.e. not breakfast or 'evening meal').

 

[Howardh]

A glossy brochure and reality often can be two different things. As posted above, breakfast is one thing, a mid-day snack something much less. Must admit I don't think you could ever get the cheapest advance fare on the breakfast train - and for the prices I've seen I'd want a darned sight more than bacon and eggs!

BTW What is the cheapest fare available for the breakfast run? Can you get a £36.50 single if you're quick enough??

 

[FManc]

While this may be true, the patchy nature of their First Class Lounges is also true; as is the poor offer on train during the day (i.e. not breakfast or 'evening meal').

I know Light Bites isn't as substantial as breakfast/dinner but it's been like this for several years now. I was merely stating that the on-board service isn't being reduced. It'll be interesting to see what's being proposed in the next franchise.

 

[WatcherZero]

Happy news for the franchising zealots of Great Minster House (Sid and Dorris Bonkers)!

With the 'risk transfer' model of franchising subject to increasing ridicule for failing both fare and taxpayers, the mandarins of Marsham Street must have been looking forward to yesterday's Business Traveller magazine awards.

At a glitzy lunchtime event at Kensington's Royal Garden hotel, hosted by no less a figure than the polymath Sir Trevor McDonald, the keenly competed for 'Best UK Domestic Train Service' award went to errr... Beardie Rail.

Alas, and for the sixth year running!

As this doesn't quite fit the DfT's narrative on the West Coast franchise expect this accolade to go unremarked upon by either officials or ministers.

And to compound Marsham Street's joy, the award itself was sponsored by First Great Western!

http://railwayeye.blogspot.co.uk/


Yes im sure everyones right and the vast majority of the public are just deluded that Virgin have been providing a good service.

 

[eastdyke]

http://railwayeye.blogspot.co.uk/


Yes im sure everyones right and the vast majority of the public are just deluded that Virgin have been providing a good service.

So First CAN sponsor a good gig?
And the inscription on the cup?
'Thank you and goodbye'

 

[Sammy h]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...eam-in-place-to-run-West-Coast-Main-Line.html

 

[F Great Eastern]

http://railwayeye.blogspot.co.uk/

Yes im sure everyones right and the vast majority of the public are just deluded that Virgin have been providing a good service.

Bear in mind who the target audience of such magazine is, it's purely that of the people at the higher end of the pay scale in this country who travel abroad very frequently on very high salaries rather than the average member of the public. Just look at the award titles.

The fact Heathrow Express is second is laughable really, if you consider it must be by far the most expensive cost per minute of every train in the country. But I'm sure the people voting for it just expense it so that doesn't concern then.

But sure, the survey is extremely valid and the people have spoken, so why don't we go and implement a new fare policy of €1 per minute of journey because it's clearly working.

 

[eastdyke]

But sure, the survey is extremely valid and the people have spoken, so why don't we go and implement a new fare policy of €1 per minute of journey because it's clearly working.

That would be too cheap.

Bear in mind that the Anytime Single Euston-Manchester is £148 for just 2hours and 7or8minutes of travel.

 

[Sammy h]

But sure, the survey is extremely valid and the people have spoken, so why don't we go and implement a new fare policy of €1 per minute of journey because it's clearly working.

Does that include delays?