Gaining access to train door control panels

[Urban Gateline]

Evening all,

I found this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g15Luq1-0XU&feature=related) and it pretty much disturbed me.

How did these guys manage to access what should be a secure part of the train so easily?! In the flash of just a second the guy has opened the door control panel of a 450...

What was the guard supposed to do in such a situation? I would find these people quite intimidating personally and would not be sure how to react! Would the BTP actually care for something like this?

 

[MidnightFlyer]

That was quite funny, but in the circumstances it was wrong. There is a comment that the BTP met them but didn't do anything.

 

[headshot119]

How they did it, it's because you can dismantle any modern train with a T key. And a T key lock is not secure.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Anything secured with a T-Key is virtually unsecured. Why Siemens couldn't have secured the DCP with a no1 or similar, I don't know. I can only assume cost.

 

[GB]

Bunch of tools!:roll:

 

[notadriver]

Even if you can open the panel you normally need a key to work the equipment behind it.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Even if you can open the panel you normally need a key to work the equipment behind it.

Yes - the same key!

 

[PinzaC55]

A Trolley Dolly I used to work with once opened the panel on the approach to York station and turned his key resulting in the train coming to a halt too early.He was sacked on the spot.

 

[Kingfisher200262]

Anything secured with a T-Key is virtually unsecured. Why Siemens couldn't have secured the DCP with a no1 or similar, I don't know. I can only assume cost.

The lock pattern for each point of access is usually specified by the TOC, not decided by the manufacturer.

 

[Pumbaa]

The lock pattern for each point of access is usually specified by the TOC, not decided by the manufacturer.

Yes, the LM lock on the cab doors on /2s is not the same as /1 I think, or if it's not the cab door it's something along a similar vein.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

The lock pattern for each point of access is usually specified by the TOC, not decided by the manufacturer.

So why didn't the TOC specify something more secure then...

 

[12CSVT]

That was quite funny, but in the circumstances it was wrong. There is a comment that the BTP met them but didn't do anything.

Sorry, but I didn't see anything remotely funny about it.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Sorry, but I didn't see anything remotely funny about it.

The accent mostly, not the circumstances.

 

[Paul180]

You would be surprised how often I see those panels left open and have thought it would be funny to say something over the PA to cofuses fellow passengers

 

[notadriver]

Yes - the same key!

yes in this case apparently the same key. In an Electrostar you need a completely different key. I'm still trying to get hold of a key for the Stewards panel. They are like gold dust!

 

[jay jay]

yes in this case apparently the same key. In an Electrostar you need a completely different key. I'm still trying to get hold of a key for the Stewards panel. They are like gold dust!

If you don't mind me asking - why would you want or need a key for the stewards panel?

 

[150222]

You would be surprised how often I see those panels left open and have thought it would be funny to say something over the PA to cofuses fellow passengers

Srinters need only a standard carriage key but AFAIK anouncements can only be made from the back cab.

 

[notadriver]

If you don't mind me asking - why would you want or need a key for the stewards panel?

So I can close the doors from any point within the train once it terminates and is due to run empty to the depot.

 

[Intermodal]

If you don't mind me asking - why would you want or need a key for the stewards panel?

As far as I know notadriver is a driver.

 

[jay jay]

So I can close the doors from any point within the train once it terminates and is due to run empty to the depot.

I see. A word of warning however - a friend of mine who works for a TOC at a location I won't name nearly got the sack for obtaining one of these keys and using it in a manner such as you mention. Apparently he hadn't received training in how to use it and the door close function and so shouldn't be in procession of one etc etc.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

As far as I know notadriver is a driver.

And in that case - fair enough

 

[bb21]

I have reported the clip to youtube. Whether it's effective we'll wait and see.

 

[150222]

It is not really that big an issue as even if people coulld open the panals most people wouldn't know how to operate them. How often do people disrupt trains by messing around with door panals? My bet is ZERO.

 

[AlterEgo]

A Trolley Dolly I used to work with once opened the panel on the approach to York station and turned his key resulting in the train coming to a halt too early.He was sacked on the spot.

I very much doubt he was sacked "on the spot"! He should have been suspended pending an investigation, and then sacked after a disciplinary hearing, to which he could have brought a union representative.

 

[PinzaC55]

I very much doubt he was sacked "on the spot"! He should have been suspended pending an investigation, and then sacked after a disciplinary hearing, to which he could have brought a union representative.

You may doubt it but that is what happened.

 

[NightatLaira]

What makes this very sad is that the guard is only doing his job, the boys are just p*ssing about, the guard is being humiliated, and the fact that it is on youtube just makes it worse. The worst bit in my opinion is that the 'BTP' did nothing - it's as bad as happy slapping.

If rules aren't going to be enforced, there's no point in having them. How can we expect the guard to challenge behaviour like this, if the BTP aren't going to back him up and reprimand the trouble makers...

 

[Solent&Wessex]

If rules aren't going to be enforced, there's no point in having them. How can we expect the guard to challenge behaviour like this, if the BTP aren't going to back him up and reprimand the trouble makers...

They often are, but BTP vary considerably in the response you get. Even in the relatively small geographical area where I work you see a different response to similar situations at different major stations. Some places are very strict, others seem to have a more of a can't be bothered attitude.

 

[deltic1989]

It would be amusing, if there were'nt serious safety implications to it. For example what if the guard needed to make an important safety announcemet at the time these tools were c0cking abouy. It is a worry though if they can get into a panel containing a PA system what about a door opening panel? If you ask me TOC's really need to re-think the security of these safety critical instraments, T-keys just aren't cutting it anymore, there are too many easy ways to crack them as this video shows.

 

[Crossover]

I have seen that video somewhere before - may have cropped up round these parts at some point - it certainly isn't new.

You would be surprised how often I see those panels left open and have thought it would be funny to say something over the PA to cofuses fellow passengers

I was on a non-refurb ATW 158 the other week and the local door panel was open - I tried to push it shut but the catch was broken I think so it just flapped straight back open again. That didn't have an intercom but obviously had the door controls and just needed a T key (I think) to activate the local door.

 

[bnm]

You would be surprised how often I see those panels left open and have thought it would be funny to say something over the PA to cofuses fellow passengers

Nope. Not funny. Just sad, annoying and childish. But if that's how you want to get your kicks then go ahead. I hope you get thrown off the train or prosecuted under Railway Byelaw 11(3).

 

[the sniper]

What makes this very sad is that the guard is only doing his job, the boys are just p*ssing about, the guard is being humiliated, and the fact that it is on youtube just makes it worse. The worst bit in my opinion is that the 'BTP' did nothing - it's as bad as happy slapping.

If rules aren't going to be enforced, there's no point in having them. How can we expect the guard to challenge behaviour like this, if the BTP aren't going to back him up and reprimand the trouble makers...

Hold on a second chap, you've gone on your little anti-BTP rant there purely because an anonymous stranger on You Tube (who you've just seen witness or commit a criminal offence) has written "the btp found us and didnt do s*** so f*** of wetbag". You judge this to be a trustworthy source for an accurate of what might have happened?!

It's hardly surprising that threads like this appear on this forum when some members here are so quick to jump to criticising railway employees based on virtually no information! :roll: