Govia get Thameslink Franchise

[EM2]

Do we know when Canal Tunnel is supposed to come into operation?

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Before anyone gets carried away by this. Govia screwed up ticket office opening times on the LM franchise and are now looking to get rid of more staff. Have they reduced staffing on one franchise to buy another?

There is a commitment for the busiest 100 stations to have staff available form first train to last train. franchise commitments are enforceable.

 

[Aictos]

Do we know when Canal Tunnel is supposed to come into operation?

2018 for Passenger Services although I guess 2016 for ECS moves to and from Hornsey.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Unfortunately there isn't much capacity beyond Camberwell, indeed none in the peak, and a Camberwell - Blackfriars shuttle has limited appeal.

Camberwell is not exactly a massive market or operational opportunity. This has been visited before - rail wins on capacity and speed - so stopping trains in a so close urban environment is not great news . Reason why it and other inner London stations shut in the 1920's and 1930's.

 

[Bald Rick]

Do we know when Canal Tunnel is supposed to come into operation?

Passenger 2018. ECS next March.

 

[Minstral25]

Interesting that Map shows that the East Grinstead to Bedford service is peak only but the Govia information suggests it is all day. Maybe they still need to join up the dots a bit so don't be surprised for changes

 

[Oliver]

Not good for First Group. Cancelled dividend for 2014 and citing poor performance within UK Bus divisions and USA.Losing out on such a lucrative franchise is certainly not going to help matters.

Surprisingly First shares finished UP today.

https://www.google.co.uk/finance?q=LON:FGP&ei=d5d_U5DZJuPFwAP2g4DADw

Govia up 8% https://www.google.co.uk/finance?q=LON:FGP&ei=d5d_U5DZJuPFwAP2g4DADw

Stagecoach unchanged.

 

[Old Hill Bank]

There is a commitment for the busiest 100 stations to have staff available form first train to last train. franchise commitments are enforceable.

LM had a contract with the DfT but went back and the DfT agreed to shut/reduce opening hours. do not believe what you see on day one is what you will get.

http://www.londonmidland.com/about-...n-midland-announces-restructuring-plan-977159

http://www.londonmidland.com/about-...2/09/decision-on-ticket-office-opening-hours/


Things Change

 

[Minstral25]

What is going to happen in January 2015, all the Thameslink trains will be diverted away from London Bridge but the extra replacement services don't seem to start to December 2015, leaving a void in service during 2015?

Is this intentional, an oversight or a typo

 

[Class377/5]

Canal Tunnel passenger service starts in May 2018.

What is going to happen in January 2015, all the Thameslink trains will be diverted away from London Bridge but the extra replacement services don't seem to start to December 2015, leaving a void in service during 2015?

Is this intentional, an oversight or a typo

Nothing. The London Bridge diversions start 21st December 2014 the 4tph Bedford - Brighton becomes

2tph Bedford to Brighton via Elephant
2tph Bedford to Elephant
2tph Brighton to London Bridge

In December 2015 you get an extra 2tph Brighton - Victoria which are extended Gatwick Express services using the new stock.

 

[Blindtraveler]

I'm curious how GoVia winning this will affect things for First. They've lost FCC and not gained anything.

Yet - they will in my opinion be no loss at this franchise, good riddence to bad rubbish. It does however leav them open to win East Coast which I think is likely, retain GW, again likely and iether retain Scotrail and/or win the new sleaper franchize, for me the latter would be the best option, assuming Nat X didnt get there hands on Scotrail again!↲

 

[TEW]

Canal Tunnel passenger service starts in May 2018.



Nothing. The London Bridge diversions start 21st December 2014 the 4tph Bedford - Brighton becomes

2tph Bedford to Brighton via Elephant
2tph Bedford to Elephant
2tph Brighton to London Bridge

In December 2015 you get an extra 2tph Brighton - Victoria which are extended Gatwick Express services using the new stock.

Doesn't it only work out as an extra 1tph? The plans suggest there will be 4tph: 2tph Gatwick Express and 2tph semi-fast. Currently there are 3tph Off Peak: 2tph Brighton Express and 1tph semi-fast.

 

[Class377/5]

Doesn't it only work out as an extra 1tph? The plans suggest there will be 4tph: 2tph Gatwick Express and 2tph semi-fast. Currently there are 3tph Off Peak: 2tph Brighton Express and 1tph semi-fast.

Yes, off peak its an extra 1tph, something FCC stopped Southern doing before.

It clearly states on DfT its 8tph from Brighton from Dec 2015, formed of

4tph go Victoria, 2tph Gatwick Airport extension trains and 2tph semi-fast
2tph to Bedford via Elephant
2tph to London Bridge (TL)

http://maps.dft.gov.uk/tsgn/index.html# and click on Brighton

Current its 7tph with the TL trains added.

 

[TEW]

I was just talking about the Victoria services. It will be interesting to see what the proposed stopping patterns are. Presumably the Gatwick Express extensions will be Victoria-Gatwick-Brighton only but it isn't clear what stopping pattern the other 2tph will have.

 

[jopsuk]

ah, hadn't realised the map worked like that. So presumbaly (and I may be repeating what was already said) the Cambridge service will be, based on current services:
2x Kings Lynn, running CBG-KGX fast. Using 365s, with possibility of an "upgrade" to 800s
2x Cambridge-Brighton, running something like Cambridge-Royston-Baldock-Letchworth-Hitchin-Stevenage-Finsbury Park-TL Core
2x Cambridge-Tattenham Corner, calling all station Cambridge-Hatfield, then Potters Bar, Finsbury Park, TL Core

 

[Bedpan]

No-one noticed the reduction in off peak services between Luton and St Albans from 6tp today to 4tph?

Don't forget that we still haven't got the full info for Blackfriars as I think SE is supposed to be running 8tph into the bays including 12 cars from Medway Towns.

I assume the 2tph terminating at Gatwick Airport off peak which replace (capacity wise) the 2tph GatEx now going to Brighton? However it seems this service is the all stations via Redhill and Purley service from today's announcement.

Not only that, but only 2 trains an hour to Brighton instead of 4 although probably not too much of a hardship due to the current stopping patterns, and the ability to change trains on the way.

It is a bit of a disappointment thereafter all these wonderful journey opportunities were intimated at the outset - and in fact all we will get off-peak from my local station are two trains to Brighton and two to Gatwick.

I wonder what the stopping patterns will be north of London. It will be a retrograde step not having a direct service from Luton to intermediate stations south of St Albans, and it will also be retrograde step if there were only half the number of fast trains from St Albans to London.

It's a pity that we have never got back to the mid-1990s service pattern of 2 tph to Brighton, fast from St Albans to London - 2tph to Guildford, semi-fast St Albans to London. and 2 tph to Sevenoaks, or stations St Albans to London.

 

[A-driver]

ah, hadn't realised the map worked like that. So presumbaly (and I may be repeating what was already said) the Cambridge service will be, based on current services:
2x Kings Lynn, running CBG-KGX fast. Using 365s, with possibility of an "upgrade" to 800s
2x Cambridge-Brighton, running something like Cambridge-Royston-Baldock-Letchworth-Hitchin-Stevenage-Finsbury Park-TL Core
2x Cambridge-Tattenham Corner, calling all station Cambridge-Hatfield, then Potters Bar, Finsbury Park, TL Core

Does it actually say that Cambridge stoppers will run to tattenham? The map also shows a Cambridge stopping/semi service into kings x along with a peterbourgh-kings x service. As far as I know the villages won't get Thameslink service due to short platforms and level crossing locations making SDO unavaliable on the down road.

Also, it's very unlikely that IEP will be used on Lynn trains now, that was shelved it seems.

 

[Saint66]

Hold on, are they cutting off peak services from my local St Albans then? Uh-oh!

 

[Manchester77]

Sorry if it's already been discussed but is there any word on how they plan to increase capacity to Uckfield?

 

[Bedpan]

Yes, but only as far as 6 trains per hour to Harpo, Luton Airport Parkway and luton will be reduced to 4. other than the fact that instead of 4tph to Brighton, there will be 2 to Brighton and 2 terminating at Gatwick Airport.

But at the moment th Wimbledon loop trains run from Luton to St Albans via the loop, in future they will only run St Albans to St Albans.


(in reply to Saint 66)

 

[Stats]

Deleted

 

[Saint66]

Yes, but only as far as 6 trains per hour to Harpo, Luton Airport Parkway and luton will be reduced to 4. other than the fact that instead of 4tph to Brighton, there will be 2 to Brighton and 2 terminating at Gatwick Airport.

But at the moment th Wimbledon loop trains run from Luton to St Albans via the loop, in future they will only run St Albans to St Albans.


(in reply to Saint 66)

Oh right, okay.

 

[jopsuk]

Does it actually say that Cambridge stoppers will run to tattenham?

From the map:

On Kings Lynn, it still has that as going to Kings Cross. It's safe to assume this will still be the Cambridge Express service.

It would seem a sensible assumption that the longer distance Brighton services would be semi-fasts.

So that leaves slows to connect to Tattenham- would be a fairly sensible combination.

That is of course an additional stopper and semi-fast every hour. If instead the Tattenham services were to be semi-fast, that would be four of those every hour!

 

[westcoaster]

Hold on, are they cutting off peak services from my local St Albans then? Uh-oh!

How and could this tie into the electrified Corby services say stopping at St pancras , St. Albans, luton parkway, luton, Bedford, wellingborough, kettering and Corby.

 

[Carlisle]

I'm curious how GoVia winning this will affect things for First. They've lost FCC and not gained anything.

With the conservative approach to franchising by the DFT since the west coast fiasco , this was always the most likely outcome, Southern like Virgin were fairly popular ,have mostly new trains and was the largest of the incumbents (less re branding costs),so this was easily the most politically correct and least controversial decision for DFT in this particular competition .

 

[Chrisgr31]

Sorry if it's already been discussed but is there any word on how they plan to increase capacity to Uckfield?

Not as far as I know, additional stock from somewhere, following Goblin electrification possibly.

 

[NSE]

My views are pretty similar to how they've always been. I still see it as a waste of time. Two tracks through the center of London with no scope for recovery? Thats gonna be fun. I'll still take the Kings Cross non-stop and change Victoria line to Victoria for my journeys from Cambridge to Croydon. Ironic as I often travel from Cambridge to Coulsdon Town, which will now be direct. I like Southern though, so I'm pleased Govia have it. Though I'm hoping they change their mind and rebrand the whole thing as Southern.

 

[OxtedSignaller]

There's still plenty of time for changes to the service pattern baring in mind that the proposed service pattern is probably the minimum obligations for the serviced and Govia will probably be able to introduce more services if they like

Hopefully the East Grinstead thameslink service will be all day, because surely it is warranted and they could just divert the Uckfield service to Victoria or just run 2x London Bridge one from Uckfield and one from East Grinstead and then a Victoria from EG or even 2x Victoria and 2x to LBD

 

[Skimble19]

To any current Southern (or any Govia franchise for that matter) employees: do you have an internal rewards site with things like Cineworld tickets etc. on?

 

[Yabbadabba]

There's still plenty of time for changes to the service pattern baring in mind that the proposed service pattern is probably the minimum obligations for the serviced and Govia will probably be able to introduce more services if they like

Hopefully the East Grinstead thameslink service will be all day, because surely it is warranted and they could just divert the Uckfield service to Victoria or just run 2x London Bridge one from Uckfield and one from East Grinstead and then a Victoria from EG or even 2x Victoria and 2x to LBD

They can't run the diesels to Victoria (Central side) without turning the fire alarms off first as the smoke extractors were placed to deal with the old thumpers not the new turbostars.