Govia get Thameslink Franchise

[A-driver]

365s don't even have cab air conditioning.

The plans have always been that kings Lynn will have nothing to do with the 700s-it has always been planned to leave 365s on that line. A leaked document about thameslink which came out in a staff side and management meeting stated that all current FCC driver depots would sign class 700s with the exception of kings Lynn. That was fairly recent and nothing to do with franchising/FCC. Unless new units are ordered it will be 365s (although the original plans for 365 refurb considered air con so it may be confusion from that).

 

[DarloRich]

A scrap yard...

Or Northern

 

[D6975]

The interactive maps show for Uckfield:


http://maps.dft.gov.uk/tsgn/index.html#

It does not show this message for any other locations. I would guess that this means that extra self-powered stock will be acquired but that the deal for them hasn't been completed yet.

Has someone else got their beady eyes on TP's 170s??

 

[physics34]

Not complaining about the current stock and indeed it does the job well and is a lot more comfortable that the elctric stock; I also can't see electricfication in the immediate future either. However the problem is overcrowding on the peak services, and there is a plan by Network Rail to lengthen platforms on the Uckfield Line to 10 coaches. However there's no point doing that unless there is additional rolling stock to run 10 coach trains!

Not a particular worry as most days I get a seat, but it would be good not to have to get to Londondon Bridge at 17.45 to be sure of a seat on the 18.08 departure!

dont understand why when London Midland ordered their 172s that they didnt order a couple more so they could release a couple of their 170s to southern.

 

[jon0844]

365s don't even have cab air conditioning.

They don't? I thought that was added when they got the new fronts?

 

[A-driver]

They don't? I thought that was added when they got the new fronts?

Not air con. It's cab cooling, but certainly not air con. It will reduce the temperature by a few degrees at a time but is fairly useless which is why so many 365s are either cancelled in the summer (due to excessive heat in cabs) or run with the front first class locked out of use so the driver can open the 1st class windows with cab door open to get some air circulating. The large windscreen makes them like a green house.

 

[jopsuk]

I always understood it that the 700s (ie Thameslink through services) would terminate at either Cambridge or Cambridge Science Park. As far as I know this will be a half-hourly "semi fast" service- trains far too long for the rural stations between Hitchin and Cambridge.

Which leaves in the short-medium term 365s on the Cambridge Express/Kings Lynn service (once the Ely junction works are done the other Express can go to Kings Lynn too) and presumably also on the "stopping" service?

 

[JonathanH]

I agree - already noted we get off-peak Thameslink services at Redhill from next timetable change although bit worried what that will do to 4x per hour London Bridge services which are very popular with Redhill travelers.

I'd be more worried about the loss of Victoria services from Redhill.

It looks like the Arun Valley trains will go via the Quarry line (since they are speeded up) and the Reigate trains will continue to go to London Bridge (since there is mention of journey time reductions). There is also mention of 4tph from Redhill to Thameslink (two of these from Horsham) so perhaps all six off-peak trains from Redhill will go to London Bridge.

With East Grinstead trains going to Thameslink destinations instead of Victoria, it appears that there may be no crossing movements north of Wivelsfield other than the Arun Valley trains crossing north of Gatwick.

 

[A-driver]

I always understood it that the 700s (ie Thameslink through services) would terminate at either Cambridge or Cambridge Science Park. As far as I know this will be a half-hourly "semi fast" service- trains far too long for the rural stations between Hitchin and Cambridge.



Which leaves in the short-medium term 365s on the Cambridge Express/Kings Lynn service (once the Ely junction works are done the other Express can go to Kings Lynn too) and presumably also on the "stopping" service?

I havnt read the full details from go ahead yet but the original thameslink plans were for Peterbourgh all stations to Stevenage then fast to Finsbury and Cambridge-royston-baldock-LGC-Hitchin-Stevenage- Finsbury trains to be absorbed into thameslink. No hard plans were ever made for the villages-discussions included keeping kings cross semi fasts there, running a shuttle camb-Royston like the old days, using SDO at the villages etc.

 

[physics34]

I'd be more worried about the loss of Victoria services from Redhill.

It looks like the Arun Valley trains will go via the Quarry line (since they are speeded up) and the Reigate trains will continue to go to London Bridge (since there is mention of journey time reductions). There is also mention of 4tph from Redhill to Thameslink (two of these from Horsham) so perhaps all six off-peak trains from Redhill will go to London Bridge.

With East Grinstead trains going to Thameslink destinations instead of Victoria, it appears that there may be no crossing movements north of Wivelsfield other than the Arun Valley trains crossing north of Gatwick.

I believe the peak time East Grinstead to LBGs are the only ones which will be going on to Cambridge/Kings Lynn etcetc. The Grinstead to Vics will remain.

 

[JonathanH]

I believe the peak time East Grinstead to LBGs are the only ones which will be going on to Cambridge/Kings Lynn etcetc. The Grinstead to Vics will remain.

The interactive map on the DfT website says, for East Grinstead, "2 trains per hour via East Croydon, London Bridge, Blackfriars, City Thameslink, Farringdon, St Pancras and the Midland Main LIne from May 2018". Unless you are expecting 4tph to East Grinstead, that appears to suggest that to existing off-peak service is diverted to London Bridge. I guess we will wait and see.

 

[W230]

Not air con. It's cab cooling, but certainly not air con. It will reduce the temperature by a few degrees at a time but is fairly useless which is why so many 365s are either cancelled in the summer (due to excessive heat in cabs) or run with the front first class locked out of use so the driver can open the 1st class windows with cab door open to get some air circulating. The large windscreen makes them like a green house.

Is it the same as the Class 319 "cab cooling" which basically does nothing but smell of fish?

What's happening with my TOC passes - that's what i'm interested in! Think my days traversing the country with First will be over!

 

[physics34]

The interactive map on the DfT website says, for East Grinstead, "2 trains per hour via East Croydon, London Bridge, Blackfriars, City Thameslink, Farringdon, St Pancras and the Midland Main LIne from May 2018". Unless you are expecting 4tph to East Grinstead, that appears to suggest that to existing off-peak service is diverted to London Bridge. I guess we will wait and see.

ah, maybe they are then mate, yep 4 years to find out

 

[Minstral25]

I'd be more worried about the loss of Victoria services from Redhill.

It looks like the Arun Valley trains will go via the Quarry line (since they are speeded up) and the Reigate trains will continue to go to London Bridge (since there is mention of journey time reductions). There is also mention of 4tph from Redhill to Thameslink (two of these from Horsham) so perhaps all six off-peak trains from Redhill will go to London Bridge.

With East Grinstead trains going to Thameslink destinations instead of Victoria, it appears that there may be no crossing movements north of Wivelsfield other than the Arun Valley trains crossing north of Gatwick.

I hope not as I for one will be very unhappy as will the large number of other passengers who use these trains daily - off-peak there is often 6 or 7 Redhill passengers per door on the Victoria trains which is around a hundred people every half-hour, which is a lot to force to change onto already overcrowded Victoria services at East Croydon.

However, the Arun Valley is in the process of a signalling upgrade so it is very likely that this will be the cause of faster services.

Of course you never know they may be giving Redhill it's own trains to Victoria (I think this would be a dream).

There is already huge dissatisfaction amongst passengers with the Arun Valley trains regularly skipping Redhill. In any case we need to see the detail.

 

[ModernRailways]

Or Northern

So a queue for a scrap yard?

 

[A-driver]

Is it the same as the Class 319 "cab cooling" which basically does nothing but smell of fish?



What's happening with my TOC passes - that's what i'm interested in! Think my days traversing the country with First will be over!

Never noticed the smell of fish, although the smell of the previous driver in some cases on a hot summers day can hide most other smells!

Problem is that the cab cooling only works with a key on so when you change ends the cab is back up to sweltering. Add to that that when going to Cambridge you are east-west, not north south so one cab is always in direct sunlight and they become fairly unbearable.

 

[A-driver]

Back on topic, interesting that the franchise map is still showing kings x-Peterbourgh and Cambridge trains alongside the st pancras etc - Peterbourgh and cbridge trains. I know they were still going to run peak trains to Peterbourgh but wonder if the map indicates plans to still keep kings x as an all day commuter station? The general vibe at work for the past 5 or so years has been that nothing except a few peak hour peterbourghs and the half hourly kings Lynn & Cambridge cruiser would use kings x.

 

[A-driver]

Also interesting that the dotted line on the map (indicating a service only running for part of the franchise) includes north if Stevenage on the moorgates. Looks like the new platform at Stevenage will go ahead then. Does anyone know why Hornsey and harringay stations are in bold? http://maps.dft.gov.uk/tsgn/index.html

 

[Deerfold]

Also interesting that the dotted line on the map (indicating a service only running for part of the franchise) includes north if Stevenage on the moorgates.

It's dotted, indicating it won't run for the whole length of the franchise. As it exists now that may mean it will be withdrawn during the franchise (though most of the dotted lines are for services which will be introduced).

 

[A-driver]

It's dotted, indicating it won't run for the whole length of the franchise. As it exists now that may mean it will be withdrawn during the franchise (though most of the dotted lines are for services which will be introduced).

I understand that but was commenting as there have been rumblings of a new bay platform being built at Stevenage to act as a terminating point for all Hertford trains.

 

[Deerfold]

I understand that but was commenting as there have been rumblings of a new bay platform being built at Stevenage to act as a terminating point for all Hertford trains.

Sorry - i was thinking it would be the other way round.

 

[Class377/5]

I understand that but was commenting as there have been rumblings of a new bay platform being built at Stevenage to act as a terminating point for all Hertford trains.

The bay platform was in the ITT document with all services via Hertford North terminating in new bay platform from May 2018.

Note the map on the DfT is the same one from the ITT with additional infomation about service changes from Govia's winning bid.

 

[SF-02]

Extremely long shot, but how feasible is it that some 442's could work long distance southeastern routes cascading some 375's to mid-distance lines now run using Class 465/9 networkers?

The 465/9 networkers could then move to metro London routes and utilise the recently completed 12 car platforms and strengthen services during the London Bridge rebuilding.

As it is few trains can use the newly lengthened platforms and the next trains to arrive will be 377's from southern in 3-4 years time.

 

[cle]

Extremely long shot, but how feasible is it that some 442's could work long distance southeastern routes cascading some 375's to mid-distance lines now run using Class 465/9 networkers?

The 465/9 networkers could then move to metro London routes and utilise the recently completed 12 car platforms and strengthen services during the London Bridge rebuilding.

As it is few trains can use the newly lengthened platforms and the next trains to arrive will be 377's from southern in 3-4 years time.

I don't think they're suitable for anything with too many stops, due to the tiny end doors and consequent dwell times.

Gatwick/Brighton is probably the best use for them, but then you have the luggage issue. Perhaps they're best sited at London Bridge and doing peak non-stop runs to Redhill/Reigate, Oxted/East Grinstead or Three Bridges/Crawley - but not stopping at East Croydon.

 

[A-driver]

So am I reading too far into this and is it just a misprint but does anyone know why harringay and Hornsey stations appear on the map in bold when numerous larger stations don't appear at all even in normal text?

 

[jon0844]

Harringay is the new terminus for HS2, while Hornsey will be the new arrivals station for Eurostar. There's then a travelator between the two.

Does that not show up on your interactive map??

 

[capital12]

Ah, who said anything about 442s?

More likely to be some Bombardier crap I expect!!

 

[JB25]

I work for Southern but two questions I am not sure of the answer to. When the full TSGN takes over next year will I:

1. Only be driving Southern routes?
2. Will I be driving around Southern routes in trains with Thameslink or Great Northern emblazoned across them or will the units be route specific?

 

[Vicpaul]

We get a new uniform don't worry about anything else

 

[JB25]

We get a new uniform don't worry about anything else

I doubt that will change much. Probably a new jumper and jackets with the new logo on. Shirts / trousers etc will probably stay the same.