Help please nr trying to prosecute

[Wath Yard]

Murderers get off on technicalities .. Food for thought

The only food for thought is you were 100% in the wrong, in all respects - not having a ticket and then giving the incorrect origin station.

As several people have said, if you stop feeling sorry for yourself and making out you are the victim and accept you are unlikely to just get away with it you have a much better chance of getting the least bad outcome.

 

[Greenback]

By actually going to purchase a ticket have i not shown i am not intending to evade a fare.. Simply that i made a mistake.. Ive never been in any trouble before at all .. Why for a matter of a few pounds would i do it? It was simply that i board from bolton so often that the first thing that popped in my mind was bolton.

Look i know im wrong and would agree to pay a reasonable amount but 400 quid seems extortionate

Murderers get off on technicalities .. Food for thought

Not really. Because your not buying a ticket before starting your journey has caused staff to be suspicious.

I doubt you'd be surprised to hear that not everyone is honest, and some people deliberately do not buy beofre getting on the train, then pretend to be asleep when the guard comes around, hoping that they will be able to get out of their destination station without encountering any sort of barrier.

Of course, if they are challenged at any time, these dishonest people will simply say 'I intended to buy a ticket all the time'. Incredibly, they sometimes even lie about where they got on, so that they hope that if they do have to pay something, it will be less than they should have.

The only way that someone can tell whether a perosn has made a genuine, honest mistake or is a chancer is probably through some sort of psychic ability. So the result is that honest people are not always believed.

In your case, all you have to do is to wait until you receive the court summons, and hope that you convince the court that you are one of the honest people, and not one of the chancers. It's up to you!

 

[Urban Gateline]

By actually going to purchase a ticket have i not shown i am not intending to evade a fare.. Simply that i made a mistake.. Ive never been in any trouble before at all .. Why for a matter of a few pounds would i do it? It was simply that i board from bolton so often that the first thing that popped in my mind was bolton.

Look i know im wrong and would agree to pay a reasonable amount but 400 quid seems extortionate

Murderers get off on technicalities .. Food for thought

So, what price do you put on a criminal record? £400 is cheap compared to the lifelong damage of a criminal record plus the court fine on top!

You say it was an honest mistake, whether it actually was honest we do not know, you could have done this before. Now you must own up to your actions and take the punishment, there is no "get out of jail free card"! Hopefully you'll be more careful next time.

Also that mention of murderers is a very general comment, it doesn't relate to, nor help your case!

 

[student99]

Youre right they would argue that .. Have no clue what to do now i just really want to get this out the way being my last year in uni ive got my dissetation and projects due but just cant get this off my mind

Will the fact that i emailed them straight away not go in my favour either?

 

[Greenback]

Youre right they would argue that .. Have no clue what to do now i just really want to get this out the way being my last year in uni ive got my dissetation and projects due but just cant get this off my mind

Will the fact that i emailed them straight away not go in my favour either?

Who can say. If you have no previous record, and if you offer a sufficient amount of cash to make it worth their while not going to court, the chances of a settlement will greatly increase.

I would advise you to be very apologetic, which is more likely to help than being quick to respond.

 

[pemma]

Look i know im wrong and would agree to pay a reasonable amount but 400 quid seems extortionate

Could be more than £400 if it goes to court:

RAIL passengers caught avoiding to buy tickets for as little as £2.90 have been given huge court fines.

Northern Rail brought prosecutions against seven people from Bolton yesterday.

They were among 16 from across the region who had been caught using public transport without valid tickets.

None of the defendants attended court and five were found guilty in their absence. They were fined £350 and ordered to pay £100 costs. Two pleaded guilty by letter and were given a reduced fine.

Andrew McDonough, aged 21, of Ashness Close, Horwich, travelled on a railway in Bolton and failed to pay £3.20 fare on August 3 last year.

Me Mohammed Patel, aged 21, of St Helens Road, Bolton, travelled from Bolton to Blackburn without paying the £5.10 fare on July 9 last year.

Daniel Paxford, aged 23, of The Pewfist, Westhoughton, went from Westhoughton to Bolton and failed to pay the £4.50 fare on August 16 last year.

Pekun Philips, aged 34, of Blackshaw House, Bolton, travelled from Bolton to Manchester Piccadilly without paying the £2.90 fare on August 16 last year.

Marc Wayne, aged 36, of Chorley Old Road, Bolton, failed to pay £11.10 when he travelled from Poulton Le Fylde to Bolton on September 8.

Joseph Peatfield, aged 22, of Alderley Avenue, Bolton, pleaded guilty by letter to travelling from Salford Crescent to Bolton and failing to pay the £3.20 fare on September 1. He was fined £65.

Keith Ribchester, aged 31, of Wingates Grove, Westhoughton, pleaded guilty by letter to failing to pay £2.10 for a trip from Westhoughton to Bolton on June 30 last year. He was fined £135.

A spokesman for Northern Rail said: “Fare evasion costs the rail industry over £400 million every year, money that would otherwise be invested in improving services.

http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/news/5030017.Rail_fare_dodgers_fined_by_court/

Although, don't take that figure as what it will be as your case is different.

If your planning to graduate and look for a job soon it's worth noting that those fare evaders where the cases have gone to court have seen their names published by the press - hardly what you want a prospective employer to see, so it will be worth your while to try and arrange an out-of-court settlement.

 

[student99]

So i have to offer them the amount or just the willingness to settle out of court ?


If i have to offer the amount any guidelines?

 

[Tibbs]

Youre right they would argue that .. Have no clue what to do now i just really want to get this out the way being my last year in uni ive got my dissetation and projects due but just cant get this off my mind

Will the fact that i emailed them straight away not go in my favour either?

Whether it's fair or not, they've got you. All you can do now is throw yourself on their mercy and hope for the best.

Expecting fairness in any legal process speaks to your optimism, but not to your acceptance of reality I'm afraid!

 

[Greenback]

So i have to offer them the amount or just the willingness to settle out of court ?


If i have to offer the amount any guidelines?

My advice is to contact them, apologise for what happened and for the trouble you have caused and indicate that you are willing to pay the money owed for the fare, plus the administrative costs that have been incurred in dealing with your case, plus a compensatory element for the time and trouble.

They should then reply either indicating an amount that would be acceptable, or refuse and proceed to court.

 

[mrbond009]

Dear Student 99

I can understand your situation. I was in a similar situation few weeks back. Luckily I was out with a 100 quid fine. I advice you to be calm and easy untill u get that letter. You should get in less than 3 weeks from the date However the rail companys say its upto 6 weeks. My personal advice is stop sending emails or letters or any means of communication to the relavent departments of that rail company.

 

[student99]

Mr bond can u explain what happened with ur case an what it was about pls

 

[Tibbs]

It's this one:

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=71168

 

[student99]

I completely understand im in the wrongin the eyes of the law even if my intentions were innocent .. im just lost now on how to settle this asap an hopefully without a court appearance

 

[reb0118]

So does the truth not matter?

Yes, the truth matters. Look at this from the other sides perspective. The RPI wasn't there - he can only go on what you told him. The magistrate (if the matter goes that far), also, did not directly witness the events. He can only pronounce on the evidence put before him.

I genuinely made a mistake when saying bolton..

This may prove to be a costly mistake however if you admit to this error, and you have no record, then Northern Rail may settle out of court. NB they do not have to do this as in my opinion this mistake has given them grounds to pursue a RoRA 1889 Section 5 offence.

I had other things on my mind ..

Unfortunately these other things are usually seen as irrelevant to those in authority - they've heard them all before so many times! Stick concisely to the facts.

No i was under no pressure at that point..

Then why state "Bolton" as your origin?

If i asked you your age and u got it wrong is that not a genuine mistake .. Mistakes do happen!

Yes true, but if you got your age wrong in relation to a question about an age related product e.g. alcohol then you could also be in serious trouble.

Yeah i totally accept I'm at fault for it but to go and say I'm fare evading or even attempting it is wrong

It is a fact however that by not purchasing a ticket at Preston you have committed a byelaw offence (Section 18 (1) of the Transport Act 2000) and by stating "Bolton" as your origin you have given grounds for a much more serious offence (Regulation of Railways Act 1889 Section 5), as you have shown intent to avoid the correct fare. Again you must see this from the prosecution's side to understand the situation that you are in. How can you "prove" that you made a mistake? This may sound harsh but it is a fact that you boarded at Preston without a ticket and also a fact that you stated "Bolton" when questioned with regard to your origin station. By your own admission you have stated these facts to be true - what more do the prosecution have to do?

Seriously anyone who travelled from Preston will know that when u enter from that side entrance there are no signs whatsoever saying tickets or anything and if you're travelling from there for the first time what do you expect?

Preston is a major stop on the West Coast Main Line between London & Glasgow I would find it unlikely that any reasonable person would think that it was not possible to purchase tickets prior to travel from there. Did you make enquiries from fellow passengers and/or members of staff? I find that most non regular travellers are of the opinion that they must purchase tickets prior to travel - it is only when they become more au fait with the system that they realise that they can purchase on board. If Bolton is your regular station I'm sure that you are aware of that fact.

My advice is simple, when the time comes state the facts of your case clearly & concisely (avoid calls for sympathy and waffle), apologise for your errors, ask for an out of court settlement.

Good luck.

 

[ainsworth74]

I think we're getting ahead of ourselves, until the you get a letter from Northern I think you best bet is to wait. Once you've got that then it will be easier to decide how to proceed. You might not like to play the waiting game but I think it would be for the best.

Also I would suggest that you don't send more emails as I fear that the email you've sent will simply have incriminated you further and might actually help make Northern proceed with the prosecution rather than settle (if you've made it even more of an easy win).

 

[bb21]

I completely understand im in the wrongin the eyes of the law even if my intentions were innocent .. im just lost now on how to settle this asap an hopefully without a court appearance

As has already been pointed out, there is very little you can do apart from waiting for the letter in the first place. It can be stressful during this period of time however without it, we simply don't know what Northern's intentions are.

All you can do for now is calm down, and try not to think about it too much. Whatever damage has been done is done, and you can't change that by losing sleep over it. Of course I understand that it is easier said than done.

 

[student99]

I said bolton as an instinct like a reflex action i just wasnt thinking


Yep i can see how im guilty in the eyes of the law and my intentions are regardless in this case

Any pointers on how to write the letter at all?

 

[reb0118]

So i have to offer them the amount or just the willingness to settle out of court ?

Not only have you to be willing to settle out of court but just as important you must also be able to settle. i.e. Have the money ready.

This is a general question to the forum: Do TOCs accept out of court settlements by installments? Personally I don't think so but I'm willing to be corrected.

 

[student99]

The email i sent is. Basically saying what ive wrote on this thread? Mistake?

 

[ainsworth74]

The email i sent is. Basically saying what ive wrote on this thread? Mistake?

Quite possibly. I certainly don't think it will have helped your case in any way. Again as I and others have said, as difficult as it maybe, you should wait until Northern send you a letter before taking further action. I accept that this is difficult but I think it's for the best.

 

[bb21]

The email i sent is. Basically saying what ive wrote on this thread? Mistake?

Not necessarily a mistake, however when people do that without seeking help beforehand, they can incriminate themselves (further), although in your case I would think that it is unlikely more damage could be done since you have already effectively admitted guilt.

 

[Ferret]

Well, all I think the email has done is reinforce the perception that Northern Rail already have - that this is an easy prosecution. I doubt it has made them less likely to accept an out of Court settlement.

 

[6Gman]

I completely understand im in the wrongin the eyes of the law even if my intentions were innocent .. im just lost now on how to settle this asap an hopefully without a court appearance

Wait for the letter! Hard as it is - you want the matter settled asap - that really is all you can do in relation to Northern Rail.

 

[snail]

Seriousl anyone who travelled from preston will now that when u enter from that side entrance there are no signs whatsoever saying tickets or anything and if youre travelling from there for the first time what do you expect?

I travel from there regularly. I'm guessing you caught your train from Platform 5 or 6. This is a photo of the steps down to that platform (from http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/stations/sjp/PRE/plan.html):

I think you would have a hard time explaining that there are no signs indicating Preston has a ticket office.

 

[cuccir]

The email i sent is. Basically saying what ive wrote on this thread? Mistake?

You will have to wait for the letter to arrive before anything else can be done about it.

Wait for the letter to come: you'll then find out what action they intend to take. These letters can take a few months to arrive. As your story is fairly weak - even if you did genuinely forget the station that you used (which is a common claim), this still isn't likely to be considered a good enough reason not to prosecute - you'll not get too much sympathy.

Wait for the letter to arrive. There is very little you can do before that. Unfortunately it will be a stressful few months, however without knowing Northern Rail's intention how can you plan the next move?

One question from before remains unanswered. Why did you not get a ticket at Preston before boarding the train?

I think we're getting ahead of ourselves, until the you get a letter from Northern I think you best bet is to wait. Once you've got that then it will be easier to decide how to proceed. You might not like to play the waiting game but I think it would be for the best.

Also I would suggest that you don't send more emails as I fear that the email you've sent will simply have incriminated you further and might actually help make Northern proceed with the prosecution rather than settle (if you've made it even more of an easy win).

It might work out for you - it's a big risk though as it might provide Northern with all the evidence they need for an easy prosecution. I hope it works out for you but if it doesn't then maybe next time you ask for advice you'll consider listening to it.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

This is a general question to the forum: Do TOCs accept out of court settlements by installments?

With a bit of skill in the negotiation, yes, it has been done.

 

[student99]

Thank you for all the advice i will wait for the letter now and keep the forum updated

Any tips on how to reply to the letter? And is there a time limit on when the letter should be sent back?

When should i be expecting this letter?

 

[island]

Legally they have six months from the date of an alleged offence to commence the prosecution. The letter normally arrives around four weeks from the alleged offence but can be sooner or later, and we have seen a case of it taking three months.

When the letter comes, let us know in general terms what it says and we can advise you further. They normally ask you to reply within 14 days.

 

[SWTCommuter]

...and got a bolton ticket instinctively as that is where i normally travel from.

Do you have anything that you could use as evidence to demonstrate that you usually travel from Bolton, such as tickets purchased at Bolton ticket office before travelling?

 

[oddiesjack]

It seems to me that your explanation would sound more likely if you have a Bolton home address. If the address you gave them was a Preston one, that would naturally trigger warning bells with anyone dealing with this matter.