Island Line Railway - current state and the future

[Bletchleyite]

Diesel and battery power the prefered options! Just waiting for a proposal to dismantle the rail pier and upgrade the road pier to support mini buses....

It wouldn't need an upgrade for a lightweight vehicle or two to operate.

 

[Chris125]

Diesel and battery power the prefered options! Just waiting for a proposal to dismantle the rail pier and upgrade the road pier to support mini buses....

The road pier is a listed cast-iron structure owned by Wightlink, and I don't see anyone suggesting minibuses for loss making branches on the mainland. The idea they could replace trains consistently carrying 100+ people plus luggage/bikes/prams during the summer is laughable.

 

[Dougal2345]

The road pier is a listed cast-iron structure owned by Wightlink, and I don't see anyone suggesting minibuses for loss making branches on the mainland. The idea they could replace trains consistently carrying 100+ people plus luggage/bikes/prams during the summer is laughable.

Not to worry, I'm sure once the regular holidaymakers experience that for the first time, they won't come back the next year, so from then on the minibus, guided bus etc. will be more than adequate.

 

[Chris125]

It seems 006 is back in use today fresh from an overhaul and much needed coat of paint, first time since 2016?

 

[yorksrob]

The road pier is a listed cast-iron structure owned by Wightlink, and I don't see anyone suggesting minibuses for loss making branches on the mainland. The idea they could replace trains consistently carrying 100+ people plus luggage/bikes/prams during the summer is laughable.

Very true indeed.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

What percentage of the ferry service trade now arrives at Fishbourne?

 

[Chris125]

What percentage of the ferry service trade now arrives at Fishbourne?

The East Cowes and Fishbourne car ferries share the majority of vehicle traffic but carry very few foot passengers.

 

[Chester1]

The road pier is a listed cast-iron structure owned by Wightlink, and I don't see anyone suggesting minibuses for loss making branches on the mainland. The idea they could replace trains consistently carrying 100+ people plus luggage/bikes/prams during the summer is laughable.

Mini bus for the old, disabled and pregnant, everyone else could walk. It looks like you are wrong about maintaining third rail, seems like SWR is keen to promote diesel or battery power. Rail pier closure could be next for cost cutting.

 

[Chris125]

Mini bus for the old, disabled and pregnant, everyone else could walk. It looks like you are wrong about maintaining third rail, seems like SWR is keen to promote diesel or battery power. Rail pier closure could be next for cost cutting.

No one is proposing to close the railway pier and it doesn't feature in the consultation, indeed it clearly points out that NR are responsible for it's upkeep.

As for the third rail we will see; conventional diesel power seemed the most realistic alternative but one they don't appear keen about for obvious reasons.

 

[Chris M]

I don't think conventional diesel power is actually a realistic option in practice, given that allegedly none of the ROSCOs or major train manufacturers are presently interested in ordering/building new diesel trains to the UK mainline gauge, despite the current shortage, because of lack of guaranteed future use. The only other UK railway that operates with a gauge comparable to that of the Island Line at present is London Underground and they're never going to be interested in either diesel or second-hand trains (let alone a small fleet of them). While some of the same considerations would also apply to EMUs, a lot of the design work for tube-sized EMUs has already been done and any new work would have potential benefits when LU order their next fleet - which is simply not the case with DMUs.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I don't think conventional diesel power is actually a realistic option in practice, given that allegedly none of the ROSCOs or major train manufacturers are presently interested in ordering/building new diesel trains to the UK mainline gauge, despite the current shortage, because of lack of guaranteed future use.

Erm, are all those CAF DMUs on order for Northern, and the vast number of bi-modes also on order, a mirage?

Bombardier can't be bothered building DMUs, nor can Alstom - doesn't mean nobody will.

 

[DanNCL]

Building diesel trains to UK mainline gauge is one thing, however would it even be practical to build them to the even smaller loading gauge used on the Island line, for just a one off order of an absolute maximum of 10 trains (most likely less)? I think it's unlikely. I think it's more likely that we'll see either battery powered trains, or new third rail emus (if it's decided to renew the third rail).

 

[Bletchleyite]

Building diesel trains to UK mainline gauge is one thing, however would it even be practical to build them to the even smaller loading gauge used on the Island line, for just a one off order of an absolute maximum of 10 trains (most likely less)? I think it's unlikely.

Why? The roads are full of diesel vehicles which are smaller than trains.

 

[DanNCL]

Why? The roads are full of diesel vehicles which are smaller than trains.

Manufacturers most likely would not want to go through the process of designing a whole new type of diesel train just for a small order like this. At least with EMUs or battery trains, they have existing designs (London Underground) that fit within the loading gauge to work from.

 

[Dougal2345]

Why? The roads are full of diesel vehicles which are smaller than trains.

They could always convert it to a little narrow gauge railway, and buy some of the faux-steam diesels used in parks to haul some open carriages... That would seem to be the limit of the Isle of Wight's and SWR's ambition at the moment.

 

[johnnychips]

Probably been mentioned before, but without having to go back through all the thread, will 230s not fit?

 

[Chris M]

Probably been mentioned before, but without having to go back through all the thread, will 230s not fit?

Been mentioned several times, and the answer is no - the cars are too long, possibly too high and the floor is a different height to the current stock.
While I'm here I'll mention again that the DLR rolling stock that will be withdrawn shortly is even less suitable (the cars are too long, too heigh, too square, the floor is too high, and the power collection is currently physically incompatible. Driving cabs would also need to be added.)

 

[johnnychips]

Thanks for your informative answer Chris.

 

[philthetube]

Manufacturers most likely would not want to go through the process of designing a whole new type of diesel train just for a small order like this. At least with EMUs or battery trains, they have existing designs (London Underground) that fit within the loading gauge to work from.

It may also be impossible to fit the necessary emission control equipment in the space available.

 

[colchesterken]

How about second hand \LT battery locos push pull redundant tube stock
Or could Vivarail fix up some ex tube stock on the lines of D78 trains

 

[Stroud Valleys]

If london underground could be used on the island line, could swt not just add an order onto the next london underground stock order. Costly yes but at least thats new stock with a long life expiry.

 

[DanNCL]

London Underground stock, either secondhand or as a follow on build to a new order most likely will not be an option, as there will be no secondhand tube stock available until 1973 stock is replaced in the mid 2020s, and it will also not be until around then when the next new tube trains enter service.

 

[trash80]

Well there are many things which are possible, all comes down to money - of which there never seems to be any for the IoW.

The 95/96ts top-up order seems to have been killed off by the way so the next new tube stock will be from the Deep Tube Upgrade and thats next decade.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Despite all these expressions of problem solving from a personal perspective on this thread, what is the current OFFICIAL position regarding the railway and the rolling stock.

 

[Dougal2345]

Despite all these expressions of problem solving from a personal perspective on this thread, what is the current OFFICIAL position regarding the railway and the rolling stock.

Oh don't spoil the fun actually surely the only official thing we know about is that amateurish 'consultation' document that surfaced a few days ago?

Here's my latest problem solving suggestion... SWR should buy some preserved Class 03s, trim the cabs down, and use them to drag around the existing stock for the next 50 years... They won't be fast but no-one's in a hurry on the Island

 

[johnnychips]

Here's my latest problem solving suggestion... SWR should buy some preserved Class 03s, trim the cabs down, and use them to drag around the existing stock for the next 50 years... They won't be fast but no-one's in a hurry on the Island

I think you're onto something here Dougal...set yourself up as a consultant to SWR and claim your £50K!

This has been a very popular thread, but again, without me having to read it all again, is there an immediate crisis: are the trains are becoming really knackered; or are people looking into the medium/long term?

 

[pompeyfan]

They only have 3 (possibly 2 after one tried to bbq itself) working units. The 3rd rail has holes in it, the island can’t support the electricity needed to run 2x4 car (even if there was enough units).

The track bed is all over the show, the ballast needs replacing. Basically it needs a lot of money spent on it. It already leaks money like a sieve... basically it’s a money pit.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Oh don't spoil the fun actually surely the only official thing we know about is that amateurish 'consultation' document that surfaced a few days ago?

Perhaps I was a tad naïve and should have been guided by my amended mantra..."Do not ask for reality, as a refusal often offends"

 

[yorksrob]

They only have 3 (possibly 2 after one tried to bbq itself) working units. The 3rd rail has holes in it, the island can’t support the electricity needed to run 2x4 car (even if there was enough units).

The track bed is all over the show, the ballast needs replacing. Basically it needs a lot of money spent on it. It already leaks money like a sieve... basically it’s a money pit.

On any other route, such issues would have been alleviated by routine maintenance and track renewals, so perhaps we should be asking why the route was allowed to get into this state, and who is culpable.

Perhaps whatever organisation that is, should be forced to pay for the backlog.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

On any other route, such issues would have been alleviated by routine maintenance and track renewals, so perhaps we should be asking why the route was allowed to get into this state, and who is culpable.

Perhaps whatever organisation that is, should be forced to pay for the backlog.

How far back do you want to go in terms of apportioning blame? Some of those bodies are no longer in existence.