MG11 issued, please help

[Darandio]

It wouldn't exactly be hard to have the signs say this is only 1st class if it is at the front of the train, not if it is at the back, or whatever the situation is.

This wouldn't even be foolproof in my experience. I've lost count of the number of times people have boarded a train before spending considerable time working out between themselves which direction the train is going despite being at the bufferstops. Then they somehow still get it wrong and switch seats when the train departs.

If they cannot work this out then i'm unconvinced they can figure out which is front or back.

 

[jumble]

If the bank card is in your name, lending it to your wife could also get you both in trouble.

In theory yes as I have no doubt that it is against the Banks T and Cs and they could withdraw the card but I would imagine that the likelyhood of anyone actually doing anything if the OP lends his card to his wife and does not claim she used it fraudently as being close to zero.

In the very early days of Chip and Pin the bank having authorised the transaction a girl in Sainsburys tried to confiscate my card because she did not like the worn appearance of the signature strip which in my view had no relevance to said transaction whatsoever.
She was not at all amused when i asked her if I could have a closer look so see what she meant and then i stuffed it into an inside pocket and invited her to try and retrieve it if she still wanted to take it.
I wanted to withdraw some money from the cashpoint outside and saw no need for someone to stop me.

Jumble

 

[Mag_seven]

This wouldn't even be foolproof in my experience. I've lost count of the number of times people have boarded a train before spending considerable time working out between themselves which direction the train is going despite being at the bufferstops. Then they somehow still get it wrong and switch seats when the train departs.

If they cannot work this out then i'm unconvinced they can figure out which is front or back.

Its just as well none of them reverse "en-route".

 

[Mem]

In theory yes as I have no doubt that it is against the Banks T and Cs and they could withdraw the card but I would imagine that the likelyhood of anyone actually doing anything if the OP lends his card to his wife and does not claim she used it fraudently as being close to zero.

In the very early days of Chip and Pin the bank having authorised the transaction a girl in Sainsburys tried to confiscate my card because she did not like the worn appearance of the signature strip which in my view had no relevance to said transaction whatsoever.
She was not at all amused when i asked her if I could have a closer look so see what she meant and then i stuffed it into an inside pocket and invited her to try and retrieve it if she still wanted to take it.
I wanted to withdraw some money from the cashpoint outside and saw no need for someone to stop me.

Jumble

as stated before my bank card is a joint account, my wife left hers at her mums or what ever she did, she needed to go shopping, i only needed lunch , so i gave her my card, she is named on it so no issues there

 

[Mem]

@Mem - I hope you haven't been put off by the brusque manner of many of the replies - most posters here aren't deliberately trying to be confrontational, we just want to you to see how your case will look to a hardened member of the revenue protection team. It doesn't, to continue the somewhat harsh tone, look good.

However, there's no reason to abandon hope. As @NSB2017 and a few others have pointed out, TOCs generally are receptive to settle rather than prosecute if they believe that the passenger has learned from their mistake and genuinely wants to make restitution. When you receive the letter, reply as succinctly as you can with an acknowledgement that you were in 1st without a valid ticket, that you will take more care in future to ensure it doesn't happen again and offer to reimburse them for the costs involved in dealing with the matter.

If you want, we're more than willing to proof-read anything that you want to send.

apptreciate it thank you

 

[Mem]

just quickly i am thankful for everryones help and i am not intentially trying to be awkward

 

[Hadders]

Isn’t there a requirement to pay on the spot at least the fare to the next station at the time a Penalty Fare issued, with the balance being able to be paid within 21 days?

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Isn’t there a requirement to pay on the spot at least the fare to the next station at the time a Penalty Fare issued, with the balance being able to be paid within 21 days?

That disappeared with the change in Regulations.

 

[gray1404]

I think you had an honest belief that you were travelling with a valid ticket, as you thought first class was not in operation in the section you were travelling in. Plus you were going to meet you wife so saw no reasonable need to have a payment method (cash/card) on you at that time as you thought you had a valid ticket for travel on the train and she had your card (and that is your business between you and her).

It sounds like when you were aware of your mistake you offered to do what you and others may say is the reasonable thing by move into standard class and you attempted to do so. However, the member of staff physically prevented you from doing so. That may cause any reasonable person to panic and not react in the way they normally would.

Furthermore, it then sounds like you were not informed of the full and correct information. It is totally wrong that you are told you must pay £40 there and then. That then led to a conversation about having no money on you. Had it been explained to you that you have 21 days to pay it or appeal then you may have accepted that. It is worth noting that only Authorised Persons can issued a Penalty Fare. Therefore, they need to do so correctly to take into account their additional training, not call them fines and demanding full payment on the spot as a basis of offering one.

 

[gray1404]

Which two stations were you travelling in between when you were asked for your ticket. I am trying to work out where this £40 figure came from.

 

[221129]

I think you had an honest belief that you were travelling with a valid ticket, as you thought first class was not in operation in the section you were travelling in. Plus you were going to meet you wife so saw no reasonable need to have a payment method (cash/card) on you at that time as you thought you had a valid ticket for travel on the train.

It should like when you were aware of you mistake you offered to do the reasonable thing by moving into standard class and attempted to do so. However, the member physically prevented you from doing so. I believe that may cause any reasonable person to panic and not react in the way they normally would.

Furthermore, it then sounds like you were not informed of the full and correct information. It is totally wrong that you are told that you have to pay £40 there and then. That then led to a conversation about having no money on you. Had it been explained to you that you have 21 days to pay it or appeal then you may have accepted that. It is worth noting that only Authorised Persons can issued a Penalty Fare. Therefore, they need to do so correctly to take into account their additional training, not calling them fines and demanding full payment on the spot as a basis of offering one.

None of this is relevant as it's no longer a penalty fare matter.

 

[Mem]

Isn’t there a requirement to pay on the spot at least the fare to the next station at the time a Penalty Fare issued, with the balance being able to be paid within 21 days?

i would of taken this if the offer was put to me and it wasnt

 

[Mem]

Which two stations were you travelling in between when you were asked for your ticket. I am trying to work out where this £40 figure came from.

he fined 2 people before he spoke to me and he never asked any of us where we were going, jjust straight £40 fines for everyone

i was going from luton to blackfriers and then home again

 

[Mem]

I think you had an honest belief that you were travelling with a valid ticket, as you thought first class was not in operation in the section you were travelling in. Plus you were going to meet you wife so saw no reasonable need to have a payment method (cash/card) on you at that time as you thought you had a valid ticket for travel on the train.

It should like when you were aware of you mistake you offered to do the reasonable thing by moving into standard class and attempted to do so. However, the member physically prevented you from doing so. I believe that may cause any reasonable person to panic and not react in the way they normally would.

Furthermore, it then sounds like you were not informed of the full and correct information. It is totally wrong that you are told that you have to pay £40 there and then. That then led to a conversation about having no money on you. Had it been explained to you that you have 21 days to pay it or appeal then you may have accepted that. It is worth noting that only Authorised Persons can issued a Penalty Fare. Therefore, they need to do so correctly to take into account their additional training, not calling them fines and demanding full payment on the spot as a basis of offering one.

i did think i had a valid ticket yes, it was onl;y when it was brought to my attention that it was no longer declassified i tried to move, i apologized, informed him of my mistake and offered to move, he said its 40 pouind payable now, i told him that i had no money on me and was meeting the wife after, also asked if there was an option for me to take a slip of some kind and pay at the station that day?
clearly this was an option hence the 21 day thing, this was not offered, if it was i would of taken that option

when he stopped me from moving to another part of the train it did bring back memoriews of when i was assulted by there staff in November, this assult is on the record
its not a good reason to give a wrong adress but i panicked, i quickly however did make this better by informing him as explained

not ideal i know but thats how it happened

what i was hoping to do is communicate with the said department because what i didnt want to happen is i wait 14 days for there letter and seem like someone that dont care or was trying to avoid the fare

 

[Mem]

That disappeared with the change in Regulations.

so whats the regulation now then?
this is only bringing more light to the situation, wont be using it in my case but its good to know others are not clear either

 

[Mem]

None of this is relevant as it's no longer a penalty fare matter.

this is my popint, it should be a penalty matter, a mg11 should not of been issued and thameslink think so as well when i called them and owned up last night
again probably wont help me but at least they agreed, and they have just sent me an email with notes to the affect of opur conversation so i can prove it actually happened, nice of them to be fair

 

[Darandio]

It was a penalty fare matter until you refused it.

 

[Mem]

It was a penalty fare matter until you refused it.

i did not refuse it
i wasnt offered the 21 day thing
i said many times that i would of paid, so no i did not

 

[Darandio]

i did not refuse it
i wasnt offered the 21 day thing
i said many times that i would of paid, so no i did not

You did refuse it, you said so in your very first post.

I did say to him it's ridiculous and I wasn't going to pay 40 pound for a misunderstanding.

You only offered to pay once it moved to an MG11 and you realised things were serious.

 

[AlterEgo]

i kind of agree in a way, let it be known though my attitude was very polite, i did not swear or get the hump, i was polite and spoke in a normal tone of voice, so im failing to understand how my attitude was unaceptable

If you can’t see how calling the penalty fare ridiculous, not paying it - for whatever reason - and lying about who you are and where you live, are an unacceptable attitude, I really give in.

 

[najaB]

this is my popint, it should be a penalty matter, a mg11 should not of been issued and thameslink think so as well when i called them and owned up last night

A penalty fare can only be issued on the spot - I'm not aware of any way that they can be retrospectively applied. Once you refused/declined to pay any part of the £40 "fine" (which would have settled the matter there an then), the RPI was correct in filling out a MG11.

 

[Mem]

You did refuse it, you said so in your very first post.

refused to pay an on the spot fine yes, as you are aware i have 21 days and couldnt pay with what i didnt have, he was told all this

You only offered to pay once it moved to an MG11 and you realised things were serious.

erm no! i said all along i will pay when he gives me a slip like he was meant to, i have no issue paying the fine

 

[The_Train]

erm no! i said all along i will pay when he gives me a slip like he was meant to, i have no issue paying the fine

I did say to him it's ridiculous and I wasn't going to pay 40 pound for a misunderstanding.

Doesn't sound to me like you 'said all along that you would pay'

 

[gray1404]

You are saying that the member of RPI staff told you that the £40 had to be paid there and then on the spot? If so, that is very concerning!

Secondly, you are saying that he issued penalty fares also of £40 to two other people without asking them where they were going? Is that correct?

Did the other two people pay him £40 there and then? Sounds like this RPI thinks that it is £40 or double the Anytime Single fare. Nevertheless this should not be happening and needs acting upon promptly to prevent other customers being mistreated.

 

[furlong]

(A first class single to St. Albans is £20, so £40 would be twice that)

 

[Clip]

And he was going Luton To Blackfriars

 

[Mem]

You are saying that the member of RPI staff told you that the £40 had to be paid there and then on the spot? If so, that is very concerning!

Secondly, you are saying that he issued penalty fares also of £40 to two other people without asking them where they were going? Is that correct?

Did the other two people pay him £40 there and then? Sounds like this RPI thinks that it is £40 or double the Anytime Single fare. Nevertheless this should not be happening and needs acting upon promptly to prevent other customers being mistreated.

yes i am telling you all the above happened, to my joy he was wearing cctv and i have reqwuested with thameslink that they look at this

 

[Mem]

(A first class single to St. Albans is £20, so £40 would be twice that)

didnt ask me or the other 2 people he fined where they were going and fined everyone the same

 

[najaB]

yes i am telling you all the above happened, to my joy he was wearing cctv and i have reqwuested with thameslink that they look at this

Don't expect much. Unless you were threatening him or otherwise being abusive it is highly unlikely that the recording was kept.

 

[Mem]

Don't expect much. Unless you were threatening him or otherwise being abusive it is highly unlikely that the recording was kept.

i was not abusive nor did i threaten him, i was well mannered did not swear at all and was speaking in a normal tone of voice