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Middle lane driving: your views?
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Gotcha on that one, as I wasn't using it to support any argument...just dropping it in there
Ploughman
Established Member
Many times I have seen a totally clear motorway at 03.00 in the morning toddling along in lane 1 minding my own, not dawdling, not speeding.
You pass a junction and someone joins the motorway ahead and goes straight out to lane 3.
Why?
Or you have the real pain in the A###.
On a single carriageway road you have the sunday walker. Toddling along at 40.
You are about 30 back in the queue. You get to a stretch of Dual Carriageway and the slow one at the front speeds up to over 80 gets to the end of the DC stretch and slows back down to 40.
How many get past, not many. Irritating Yes.
Illegal no except for the speed
Will this law change affect it No.
You pass a junction and someone joins the motorway ahead and goes straight out to lane 3.
Why?
Or you have the real pain in the A###.
On a single carriageway road you have the sunday walker. Toddling along at 40.
You are about 30 back in the queue. You get to a stretch of Dual Carriageway and the slow one at the front speeds up to over 80 gets to the end of the DC stretch and slows back down to 40.
How many get past, not many. Irritating Yes.
Illegal no except for the speed
Will this law change affect it No.
transmanche
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Again, it's worth reiterating that there has not been any change in the law. Merely that the police can now issue fixed penalty notices for some offences, which previously could only be reported for summons.
GearJammer
Member
Quite often....
i ignore it all the time when in my 44 tonner, in fact i did it this week, just as i got to the bottom of the hill the truck up front (which to my disapointment was also from my firm) was driving at 50mph, three other trucks had backed up behind him but i dropped a gear selected power mode and roared up the hill passing all 4 of them before id even got to the top!
I fail to see why the 7.5 tonne weight limit is there, theres no structures there that are at risk and i fail to see why i should be confined to driving in lane one just because im in an HGV, a fully freighted HGV with average power will drop to anything as low as 20-30mph going up that hill, the same truck with a light load or empty will power up it flat out, so why should an empty HGV have to slow to 20-30mph due to not being allowed to overtake? So as not to increase journey times for car drivers? Thats what the sign stated when it was just a trial period, im sorry but since when did car drivers journey times take priority over HGV journey times?
Im sorry but ive just read this whole thread, i spend 5 days a week, week in week out living and driving on the roads, i see the good and mostly bad in drivers and as you've probably guessed i don't class myself as no angel, i also fail to understand why certain rules are in place and why there are no rules in place for other things.
Its not peoples driving that stinks, its peoples attitudes, from drivers to cyclists to pedestrians even down to the idiots that design roads and put the rules in place, everyones out for themselves and everyone thinks their right, or just don't think at all.
I drive to my abilities given the conditions at the time, ive had my truck up to 80mph and my car up to 150mph....... and all on a squeaky clean licence.
Nothing will ever change....... happy motoring people.
I saw a cyclist today, in full racing gear and helmet (so presumably part of a cycling club) that was going around a roundabout the wrong way.
This was not a mini roundabout, but a large roundabout with three dual carriageway exits and one 'normal' road, with a 40mph limit.
What the hell he was thinking I do not know, but I am amazed he wasn't wiped out by a car that could have come around and smacked into him head on - unless he was actively trying to kill himself.
This was not a mini roundabout, but a large roundabout with three dual carriageway exits and one 'normal' road, with a 40mph limit.
What the hell he was thinking I do not know, but I am amazed he wasn't wiped out by a car that could have come around and smacked into him head on - unless he was actively trying to kill himself.
Personally, I'd much rather briefly sit behind an empty wagon swiftly overtaking a loaded (and slow) one on the hill than be stuck behind the same combination on the flat when there's not much difference between them. Unfortunately I'd suggest that it's the behaviour of a tiny minority of drivers who really do take the biscuit (once followed a couple of HGVs, alongside each other for five or six miles - they still weren't done after that, but fortunately there was a lane gain at that point so I could get on with my journey in a more timely manner) that irritates the general public sufficiently to ultimately result in this sort of silly restriction.
And the Germans like to comply with their rules. A few years ago I was heading east on the A6 near Nuremburg when the radio TP burst into life announcing that there were 20km tailbacks ahead. Lorries were not permitted to overtake on that section of the (3 lane!) autobahn, and one had broken down in lane ein. The lorry behind him decided he couldn't overtake the failure, and so did the next bloke, and then like dominoes every lorry behind just stopped, not able to disobey the regulations. For 20 km.
Brilliantly a Hungarian lorry driver risked it, and he looked like he was running for the border....
Nice story!
JohnB57
Member
And here you have the problem perfectly encapsulated. People who believe laws don't apply to them - their skills and needs are above everything else.
Bravo.
notadriver
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And this person wants to be a train driver ?!
GearJammer
Member
I don't believe ive ever said i want to be a train driver!
the sniper
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Can you really not see that you're one of these people?
Anyway, you must be a little foolish, because if you are caught doing 150mph you will be looking at an extended driving ban. For many people this would be an inconvenience, but for you it would be unemployment. I guess you view this as an expectable risk, but I personally wouldn't chance it if my livelihood relied upon me keeping my license.
I can't say I'm a complete slave to speed limits, very few people are, but personally I find 100mph+ speeds on public roads pretty unjustifiable. I've also yet to meet anybody who admits to committing such an offence and doesn't come across as an absolute arse in the process.
notadriver
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GearJammer
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BestWestern
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Completely agree with you on that one
I am absolutely adamant that there are a significant number of drivers who have absolutely no idea at all what the national speed limit sign means, or what that limit is. I'm not a prat behind the wheel, but I'm afraid I do find it unacceptably antisocial to drive at 40mph-ish on a clear road with a limit of 60mph with a column on traffic slowly building up behind you. Many A roads offer little opportunity to overtake safely, and a pleasant journey can become incredibly frustrating as you sit behind a plodder trying to get your head around why they are so unaware of their speed/the speed limit/other people stacking up behind them. Grrrrr.....
lynni
Member
Completely agree with you on that one
I am absolutely adamant that there are a significant number of drivers who have absolutely no idea at all what the national speed limit sign means, or what that limit is. I'm not a prat behind the wheel, but I'm afraid I do find it unacceptably antisocial to drive at 40mph-ish on a clear road with a limit of 60mph with a column on traffic slowly building up behind you. Many A roads offer little opportunity to overtake safely, and a pleasant journey can become incredibly frustrating as you sit behind a plodder trying to get your head around why they are so unaware of their speed/the speed limit/other people stacking up behind them. Grrrrr.....
And these are the ones that inadvertently cause accidents as other drivers overtake out of pure frustration
On the other hand, a lot of people don't realise that the HGV speed limit on a single carriageway road is 40 mph. So if you have an HGV in front of you, that is the effective speed limit, although many HGVs speed. You can't rely on doing 60 mph on a single carriageway because of that.
60 mph is actually quite generous for a single carriageway speed limit. Many countries have a speed limit of 80 km/h. The 60 mph speed limit has a high compliance rate because of the difficulty in getting to that speed.
60 mph is actually quite generous for a single carriageway speed limit. Many countries have a speed limit of 80 km/h. The 60 mph speed limit has a high compliance rate because of the difficulty in getting to that speed.
As long as we don't opt to just lower it on a blanket level simply because there are many places and/or times where you can't reach the limit.
Even on rural country roads, single lane with passing places, has occasional stretches that allow you to speed up even if you are usually crawling at 20mph or less around blind bends. It had been suggested to reduce country road speed limits because it was rarely safe to do 60, but that misses the point as you don't just do 60 regardless. Or shouldn't.
But when the road allows you to do the limit, you should aim to do so. Sod the 'it's a limit not a target' argument as that isn't anything you are taught, but seems to be an argument/defence used by those who are too scared to do above 35...
I'd like to see more variable speed limits though, but they're expensive to implement.
Even on rural country roads, single lane with passing places, has occasional stretches that allow you to speed up even if you are usually crawling at 20mph or less around blind bends. It had been suggested to reduce country road speed limits because it was rarely safe to do 60, but that misses the point as you don't just do 60 regardless. Or shouldn't.
But when the road allows you to do the limit, you should aim to do so. Sod the 'it's a limit not a target' argument as that isn't anything you are taught, but seems to be an argument/defence used by those who are too scared to do above 35...
I'd like to see more variable speed limits though, but they're expensive to implement.
They may have been alongside each other for 5 or 6 miles because of speed limiters, once you commit to overtake what else can you do? If another truck was overtaking me and struggling to get past I would normally slow and let it in.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I've had a truck up to 70mph but I think 80mph is pushing your luck a bit........and 150mph in a car
theageofthetra
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On many roads in the US in mountainous or scenic areas there are strict rules on RV's (big motor homes) & trucks having to pull in at the next available layby if a car is behind them. The only time I have ever seen this not followed (a big fine being an incentive) is from the rented RV's most likely driven by British drivers! Saw 3 being ticketed by cops on a road in Colorado once. I have driven in most European countries, US, Canada, Mexico, Egypt, Thailand, Jordan & Turkey and the worse place by miles for mid lane hogging and other selfish driving habits is the UK. Truck drivers in the the likes of Turkey and Jordan will actually pull over and help you pass them. In Sweden & Norway where you have hundreds of miles of 2 lane "motorway" slower drivers & trucks will pull into the wide hard shoulders to allow you to pass. When didyou last see someone in the UK do that! I really hope these laws are passed and soon though it is sad that in other countries their residents have the courtesy and intelligence to do this without the threat of a fine.
Northern Ireland has single carriageways with hard shoulders so it does occur in a small part of the UK! Similarly in the Republic of Ireland.
theageofthetra
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Do slower drivers pull over automatically without hesitation though?
I remember being surprised by it happening, but I haven't done much driving in Ireland and it was a long time since I did it. Maybe some locals can comment.
In Sweden, even foreign cars (yes, even those on GB plates) usually pull in to the widened hard shoulder (not sure it's actually a hard shoulder, mind). Not sure how they all knew, unless they simply thought 'that's a clever idea' when seeing others do it.
However, they're gradually changing those road layouts into a three lane road (two one way, one the other) and even though we have some roads like this in the UK - we usually just rely on paint to mark them - which is potentially dangerous, especially when it swaps over or when both sides become one lane in each direction to allow people to use a newly created middle lane/island to turn. I am sure we've all seen people that don't pull back in and now drive over these ghost islands - and we've all heard of really nasty head-on smashes.
In Sweden, they put up crash barriers to make it perfectly safe - and instead of turning left by stopping in lane 1 or 2, you turn off to the right, loop around and the cross over - reducing or eliminating the chance of being rear ended by someone not paying attention (as well as keeping the traffic flowing).
I am not aware of us 'going that extra mile' here, which would of course design out accidents instead of just relying/hoping that motorists pay extra attention. But that's how we do so many things here. I mean, we can build a new bypass and have a speed camera on it from the day it opens to protect a junction. WTF?!
It's also interesting that Sweden, which is so safety conscious, has actually been increasing speed limits on motorways in recent years. Not by much, just 10kph, but they acknowledge that speed in itself isn't always dangerous. This is then contrasted by ever decreasing speed limits in towns, where speeding isn't always dangerous but you have to consider other factors, like a child running out - and where it's all about your ability to stop quickly.
Personally I think that when you're fair on speed limits, people respect them. If we'd merely had speed cameras installed over the last 10-20 years, it wouldn't have been as big an issue as when we saw the police and councils deciding to lower limits to make it easier to catch people who weren't law breakers before that point. Now we have blanket 20mph limits in entire boroughs and towns, so I wonder when people will say enough is enough. When motorways are down to 30mph?
However, they're gradually changing those road layouts into a three lane road (two one way, one the other) and even though we have some roads like this in the UK - we usually just rely on paint to mark them - which is potentially dangerous, especially when it swaps over or when both sides become one lane in each direction to allow people to use a newly created middle lane/island to turn. I am sure we've all seen people that don't pull back in and now drive over these ghost islands - and we've all heard of really nasty head-on smashes.
In Sweden, they put up crash barriers to make it perfectly safe - and instead of turning left by stopping in lane 1 or 2, you turn off to the right, loop around and the cross over - reducing or eliminating the chance of being rear ended by someone not paying attention (as well as keeping the traffic flowing).
I am not aware of us 'going that extra mile' here, which would of course design out accidents instead of just relying/hoping that motorists pay extra attention. But that's how we do so many things here. I mean, we can build a new bypass and have a speed camera on it from the day it opens to protect a junction. WTF?!
It's also interesting that Sweden, which is so safety conscious, has actually been increasing speed limits on motorways in recent years. Not by much, just 10kph, but they acknowledge that speed in itself isn't always dangerous. This is then contrasted by ever decreasing speed limits in towns, where speeding isn't always dangerous but you have to consider other factors, like a child running out - and where it's all about your ability to stop quickly.
Personally I think that when you're fair on speed limits, people respect them. If we'd merely had speed cameras installed over the last 10-20 years, it wouldn't have been as big an issue as when we saw the police and councils deciding to lower limits to make it easier to catch people who weren't law breakers before that point. Now we have blanket 20mph limits in entire boroughs and towns, so I wonder when people will say enough is enough. When motorways are down to 30mph?
Easy really - either the overtaking vehicle eases off a bit to pull back in behind the first vehicle, or the first vehicle eases off a bit to let the other one get past more quickly. I accept that neither vehicle wants to lose momentum, and that a slight difference in speed can make quite a difference over a long journey, but spending six or seven minutes trying to overtake, with a long queue of potentially faster traffic behind, is thoroughly discourteous.
Buttsy
Established Member
It's a bit like trucks indicating to move out and expecting others to drop anchor so they can pull out and so save themselves having to lose momentum or brake. Heavan forbid having any courtesy to drivers who are doing 70 and are feet from the rear of their trailer...
Indeed - I'll generally go to great lengths to accommodate those lumbered with such a large or heavy vehicle, so it's frustrating when I then end up sitting behind another two (the minority, I suspect) who clearly have little regard for the desire of others to make reasonable progress! Still, that's not as frustrating as following a Micra (other makes and models are available) around decent (NSL) country roads in good weather at 40mph - especially when we come to a village with a 30mph limit and the Micra merrily sails through at 40mph!
transmanche
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That's also indicative (sorry!) of the number of drivers who use indicators to inform you that they have actually started a manoeuvre; rather than the proper use of letting you know they intend to make a manoeuvre.
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