Northern timetable plan for May 2018

[Chester1]

Will be hourly on Sundays from May

I certainly hope so!

There are no practical problems to introducing the planned extra Sunday services because plenty of rolling stock will be spare. When Northern can't introduce other service improvements they are an easy win and good PR.

 

[Eccles1983]

There are no practical problems to introducing the planned extra Sunday services because plenty of rolling stock will be spare. When Northern can't introduce other service improvements they are an easy win and good PR.

I can think of one practical problem.

The crew issue. Sundays outside on the ex fnw routes mean that all these sunday services will struggle.

A influx of drivers not being passed out on routes means that I expect a bucket load of cancellations of sunday services.

 

[scrapy]

There are no practical problems to introducing the planned extra Sunday services because plenty of rolling stock will be spare. When Northern can't introduce other service improvements they are an easy win and good PR.

There are improvements such as hourly Stoke to Manchester and Chester to Manchester which should have started in December 2017. Northern had the stock spare to introduce them then but chose not to deciding it would be easier for them to blaim infrastructure delays.

 

[northwichcat]

There are improvements such as hourly Stoke to Manchester and Chester to Manchester which should have started in December 2017. Northern had the stock spare to introduce them then but chose not to deciding it would be easier for them to blaim infrastructure delays.

Indeed. Northern decided it was too much effort to recast 'South Manchester' Sunday services in December 2017 and Mon-Sat services in May 2018.

 

[323235]

Yet they gave other areas better services on sundays in the December change, that already had far more services than the 5 a day we have on the Stoke line.

It's only thanks to TfGM (and Cheshire East) for starting the 2 daytime sunday services in each direction.

 

[stu99]

Suggested date for the new timetables being made available was 7th March. However, as mentioned in another thread the RDG have said full timetables for the May timetable change will only appear in journey planners 4 weeks before the change.

On the National Rail Enquiries website it "We expect correct information to be available from Saturday 7 April"
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/service_disruptions/184755.aspx

 

[47434]

Is there a summary of the changes somewhere - can't seem to find it.

 

[northwichcat]

Sounds like Lime Street crews are still being trained on 323s, Leeds crews on 156s and Barrow crews on 158s so I guess at least some of the proposed changes will still be going ahead in May.

 

[1D53]

Is there a summary of the changes somewhere - can't seem to find it.

Need a timetable first to summarise.

 

[berneyarms]

Is there a summary of the changes somewhere - can't seem to find it.

The publication of the new timetable has been deferred. We all have to wait that little while longer.

 

[Deerfold]

Northern seem not to do publicity apart from the occasional press release, so when extra trains have been added recently, they've not been added to the timetable or announced online, but there have been stories in local newspapers. If I wasn't on this forum I wouldn't know there the prospect of major changes in my local rail services.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Northern seem not to do publicity apart from the occasional press release, so when extra trains have been added recently, they've not been added to the timetable or announced online, but there have been stories in local newspapers. If I wasn't on this forum I wouldn't know there the prospect of major changes in my local rail services.

They have been that way for as long as I can remember, even back in Serco-Abellio days. The last major batch of improvements in December 2008 (the hourly 'fast' Manchester-Bradford services, upping Wigan-Liverpool to three an hour, etc.) passed with hardly a sound, and over the years the only way the likes of improved Sunday services and considerable frequency increases (see the lines via Darwen, Hyde Central et al.) have been broadcast is whatever snippets local and rail media pick up on. Compare and contrast to the likes of ScotRail or GWR who report practically every last timetable change.

 

[johntea]

I only noticed at Leeds today that some of the Northern Manchester Victoria services seem to have been extended to call at Deansgate and Manchester Oxford Road!

 

[Halish Railway]

I only noticed at Leeds today that some of the Northern Manchester Victoria services seem to have been extended to call at Deansgate and Manchester Oxford Road!

That was a December 2017 change.

 

[PaulC88]

Northern seem not to do publicity apart from the occasional press release, so when extra trains have been added recently, they've not been added to the timetable or announced online, but there have been stories in local newspapers. If I wasn't on this forum I wouldn't know there the prospect of major changes in my local rail services.

I too wasn't really aware of this major issue, only heard in news that there is a delay in the publish of the Summer timetable but didn't realize it was due to an issue in my local area. Having read more into it and come across this site I now know the 2% that has been mentioned it will effect the most includes myself!
I commute to Milton Keynes from Chorley on a Monday morning and try to book Advance tickets as soon as they become available. I have the option to travel from Preston which tends to be more expensive plus the added cost of a taxi but Chorley or Buckshaw Parkway are my preferred choice.

To add to the matter I am also holding back bookings as I should be eligible for the 26-30 railcard when it becomes available to the rest of the country sometime in Spring. Again I cant find anymore information regarding this since it and the trial was announced in the Autumn Budget. I'm hoping something will be said next Tuesday in the Spring statement.

 

[skifans]

It's obviously a little risky (esspecily as I think the exact date hasn't been confirmed, and it could always be delayed), but it's already possible to book tickets with the 26-30 discount on all trains throith tpes website (and possibly others) as long as you have the railcard by the time the ticket is needed to travel then it's valid. You don't need the railcard to book the tickets.

 

[PaulC88]

It's obviously a little risky (esspecily as I think the exact date hasn't been confirmed, and it could always be delayed), but it's already possible to book tickets with the 26-30 discount on all trains throith tpes website (and possibly others) as long as you have the railcard by the time the ticket is needed to travel then it's valid. You don't need the railcard to book the tickets.

Yea that is the risk as I read somewhere that the railcard may be delayed till Winter 2018 then I'd be in a bit of a mess having tickets I cant use.

 

[Bantamzen]

They have been that way for as long as I can remember, even back in Serco-Abellio days. The last major batch of improvements in December 2008 (the hourly 'fast' Manchester-Bradford services, upping Wigan-Liverpool to three an hour, etc.) passed with hardly a sound, and over the years the only way the likes of improved Sunday services and considerable frequency increases (see the lines via Darwen, Hyde Central et al.) have been broadcast is whatever snippets local and rail media pick up on. Compare and contrast to the likes of ScotRail or GWR who report practically every last timetable change.

The increased Sunday frequencies were well advertised along the Aire & Wharfe routes, with posters going up at most stations prior to the timetable change (and they are still there now), and an early ride out on one in the first couple of weeks had plenty of people using it where previous they would have had another hour to wait, so people knew about it.

 

[northwichcat]

A very small number of Northern services have appeared on OTT and RTT, most of them don't give much away and many stations are still showing no services at all but a 19:43 Barrow to Airport via Bolton service (given 158 timings) seems to suggest the plan is for Northern to run Cumbria services via Bolton.

 

[Mathew S]

A very small number of Northern services have appeared on OTT and RTT, most of them don't give much away and many stations are still showing no services at all but a 19:43 Barrow to Airport via Bolton service (given 158 timings) seems to suggest the plan is for Northern to run Cumbria services via Bolton.

Indeed. There are a very, very few of the via Wigan services on; including 1 Wigan NW to Lime Street, 1 Wigan NW to Alderley Edge, and 1 Soouthport-Leeds that I have seen. Doesn't reveal anything much, yet, though.

 

[Deerfold]

The increased Sunday frequencies were well advertised along the Aire & Wharfe routes, with posters going up at most stations prior to the timetable change (and they are still there now), and an early ride out on one in the first couple of weeks had plenty of people using it where previous they would have had another hour to wait, so people knew about it.

There were some posters - I'm not sure I'd describe them as well advertised. The only mention I can find on their website is half a bullet point on page 5 of this:

https://be803fe5c416e39d38ae-aa2108...nity/Northern_Customer-Report-web-version.pdf

Looking through the news section of their website it seems to be all strikes and new trains (at some point in the future). The news items aren't even dated. Wouldn't you think a doubling of frequencies would be worth shouting about?

 

[Darren R]

A very small number of Northern services have appeared on OTT and RTT, most of them don't give much away and many stations are still showing no services at all but a 19:43 Barrow to Airport via Bolton service (given 158 timings) seems to suggest the plan is for Northern to run Cumbria services via Bolton.

I wouldn't read too much into that - not quite everything was cancelled. A few trains survived the cull, including a few through Bolton (mostly from Blackburn/Clitheroe.) I don't think anything new has appeared.

 

[Mathew S]

I wouldn't read too much into that - not quite everything was cancelled. A few trains survived the cull, including a few through Bolton (mostly from Blackburn/Clitheroe.) I don't think anything new has appeared.

No, there is new stuff on there. Not much, but there is.

 

[northwichcat]

Indeed. The Barrow via Bolton service is new and there's a Piccadilly to Chester service in a xx:41 path when previously Greenbank services were in those paths.

 

[Bantamzen]

There were some posters - I'm not sure I'd describe them as well advertised. The only mention I can find on their website is half a bullet point on page 5 of this:

https://be803fe5c416e39d38ae-aa2108...nity/Northern_Customer-Report-web-version.pdf

Looking through the news section of their website it seems to be all strikes and new trains (at some point in the future). The news items aren't even dated. Wouldn't you think a doubling of frequencies would be worth shouting about?

I do, but as I said passengers seemed to know about it. It made the local news, it was talked about in the local community group I'm subscribed to, people were waiting for the extra trains on day one, so clearly the word was getting out there. I'm not sure what they should be doing if I'm honest, they do seem to be a company that's damned if they do and damned if they don't. No doubt had they launched an expensive advertising campaign they would have been criticised for wasting money. I know the web site needs work (I'm signed up to their regular customer e-feedback program so I do raise issues whenever I spot them), but in all honesty save checking their times & buying tickets, most punters aren't regularly visiting the site or reading the news feed. They are more likely to be using social media where Northern do seem to target more of this kind of information, and frankly this is rapidly becoming the medium of choice for many companies because a single thread or Tweet can get far more hits in a short space of time than an article on a webpage.

 

[northwichcat]

The new timetable was supposed to be made available to TfGM in advance of their meeting next Friday. Yet it's not included in the documents uploaded: https://www.greatermanchester-ca.go...19/transport_for_greater_manchester_committee and there's nothing to indicate there's a document still to upload.

 

[thejuggler]

I only noticed at Leeds today that some of the Northern Manchester Victoria services seem to have been extended to call at Deansgate and Manchester Oxford Road!

Correct. I used it in December. Very much a skeleton service at the moment, but useful.

 

[TUC]

Northern's Huddersfield to Wakefield Westgate service serves an important function in providing a quick link from stations such as Mirfield onto the ECML. Picking up discussion on the train, it was being said that Northern had intended from May to replace this with a service to Castleford instead, that would call at Wakefield Kirkgate but not Westgate, but that Northern were now revisiting this following adverse reaction. Does anyone know whether this is correct?

 

[yorksrob]

Northern's Huddersfield to Wakefield Westgate service serves an important function in providing a quick link from stations such as Mirfield onto the ECML. Picking up discussion on the train, it was being said that Northern had intended from May to replace this with a service to Castleforld instead, that would call at Wakefield Kirkgate but not Westgate, but that Northern were now revisiting this following adverse reaction. Does anyone know whether this is correct?

It's an interesting one. Personally, I'd love a direct train to Huddersfield, but I can sympathise with Huddersfieldians losing their Westgate connection. That said, haven't they promised that path to Pontecarlians ?

Whatever happens, they need to find some way of augmenting Normanton's currently inadequate hourly (worse on Sundays) service. Perhaps stopping one of the two Barnsley expresses might be an option - particularly as Elsecar seems to have bagged two trains an hour, in spite of having a lot fewer passengers than Normanton.

On the subject of direct Castleford - Huddersfield services, I, and I'm sure a lot of other potential passengers would be perfectly ecstatic with a decent connection at Kirkgate, as opposed to the current fifty + minute loiter, which makes the railway useless for that journey.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

It's an interesting one. Personally, I'd love a direct train to Huddersfield, but I can sympathise with Huddersfieldians losing their Westgate connection. That said, haven't they promised that path to Pontecarlians ?

Whatever happens, they need to find some way of augmenting Normanton's currently inadequate hourly (worse on Sundays) service. Perhaps stopping one of the two Barnsley expresses might be an option - particularly as Elsecar seems to have bagged two trains an hour, in spite of having a lot fewer passengers than Normanton.

On the subject of direct Castleford - Huddersfield services, I, and I'm sure a lot of other potential passengers would be perfectly ecstatic with a decent connection at Kirkgate, as opposed to the current fifty + minute loiter, which makes the railway useless for that journey.

Oy, don't you be trying to scupper the long-awaited improvement to Elsecar's services!

Elsecar isn't getting an extra train as such, it's just having its stop on the Sheffield-Huddersfield line reinstated a mere 14 years after it was bafflingly withdrawn, so we had the farcical situation where Sheffield-Huddersfield trains stopped at every station except Elsecar.

Elsecar and Normanton aren't really comparable anyway as, according to a work colleague who lives there, Normanton has a fast and frequent bus service to both Wakefield and Castleford, which runs every 10 minutes so and thus will connect with the train without too much of a wait. Yes, you could look at stopping some of the fast Barnsley expresses there, but once you start stopping fast trains at relatively minor stations, they cease to be express trains!