Northern to introduce evening peak restrictions

[Starmill]

No its not......and in fact removing the evening ranger also reduces the risk of a Condition 3 prosecution as one forumite will testify to.

And surely if I m right and it wont affect demand whatsoever, think of the extra commission me and you will get.

Maybe Northern can use all that extra money to retrain their staff to accept to be able to issue the correct tickets then!

 

[Moonshot]

Maybe Northern can use all that extra money to retrain their staff to accept to be able to issue the correct tickets then!

Which staff?

 

[Starmill]

Actually picc has been proven to be one of the best depots for revenue collection however your part of the airport line is soul destroying. Especially mauldeth road with numerous cards that decline we gave up.

As I said I'd get a free ride most days. Doesn't happen on loacal services at EMT / ATW / Scot Rail.

 

[razor89]

So if one of the effects of removing the dirt cheap tickets in the evenings is getting rid of the idiots who can intimidate some guards, isnt it true that the better atmosphere etc would also increase the well being of those such as women and children who also feel intimidated by such ?

Wishful thinking no? Personal experience tells me that those idiots usually fall into one of two groups; they're either fare evaders anyway, or they're not really bothered what the ticket costs.

 

[muz379]

So if one of the effects of removing the dirt cheap tickets in the evenings is getting rid of the idiots who can intimidate some guards, isnt it true that the better atmosphere etc would also increase the well being of those such as women and children who also feel intimidated by such ?

One minute your arguing that it wont make a difference because people who pay £4 a pint will pay more anyway ,

the next minute your saying putting the fare up will actually put them off travelling .

Which is it ?


Personally id be inclined to say anyone that would intimidate a guard has not got a ticket anyway and would probably be resorting to that over said guards request to buy a ticket . If that is the case then the price of the ticket is inconsequential to these people and they will still travel .

 

[Starmill]

Not really because a lot of guards will not put themselves at risk. Especially the 1st few months. A lot of people will be angry. Mix that with alcohol and you have a volatile mix.

But that's no different to now! If you don't check tickets you'll never know if anyone has a restricted one?
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Actually picc has been proven to be one of the best depots for revenue collection however your part of the airport line is soul destroying. Especially mauldeth road with numerous cards that decline we gave up.

And also wait a minute, do you seriously think Burnage is worse than Gorton?

 

[Merseysider]

Which staff?

I can count four occasions over the last few months where Northern staff have disputed the validity of a (valid) ticket I was attempting to buy, or had bought. I can provide the reference numbers if you wish.

 

[Moonshot]

Wishful thinking no? Personal experience tells me that those idiots usually fall into one of two groups; they're either fare evaders anyway, or they're not really bothered what the ticket costs.

No I was simply stating if that was one of the effects.....whether that happens or not I seriously doubt to be honest.
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I can count four occasions over the last few months where Northern staff have disputed the validity of a (valid) ticket I was attempting to buy, or had bought. I can provide the reference numbers if you wish.

Oh i daresay staff do make errors.....hardly suprising when you see the sheer complexity of the whole system both for staff and passengers. How many passengers do you hear of who have bought the wrong ticket etc....

 

[ANorthernGuard]

But that's no different to now! If you don't check tickets you'll never know if anyone has a restricted one?
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And also wait a minute, do you seriously think Burnage is worse than Gorton?

Obviously lol. Had more hassle at !urnage than Gorton over the years. The airport line has got worse than hadfields over recent years

 

[muz379]

I can count four occasions over the last few months where Northern staff have disputed the validity of a (valid) ticket I was attempting to buy, or had bought. I can provide the reference numbers if you wish.

Is this northern Guards and RPI's or STM staff working on behalf of northern out of interest ?


This is why if I am ever unsure of the validity of a ticket I will accept it as valid , then when I am back at depot or home check it out properly , if I ever see that ticket again I will then know

If It is valid no Harm done

 

[greatkingrat]

The new restriction code is ND

OUTWARD TRAVEL
Valid on trains timed to depart between 0930 - 1600 inc and from 1830 onwards.
RETURN TRAVEL
Any train the same day except those timed to depart between 1601 - 1829 inc

I note it doesn't say you can complete your journey if it involves a change and the second train departs after 1601.

 

[Merseysider]

Is this northern Guards and RPI's or STM staff working on behalf of northern out of interest ?


This is why if I am ever unsure of the validity of a ticket I will accept it as valid , then when I am back at depot or home check it out properly , if I ever see that ticket again I will then know

If It is valid no Harm done

It's been Northern clerks at Salford Crescent (x2) and Wigan Wallgate, along with a guard on a MCO - LIV working.

With evening prices going up next month, I can certainly see greater patronage of the buses between Stockport and Manchester, especially with the frequency of service available.

 

[muz379]

It's been Northern clerks at Salford Crescent (x2) and Wigan Wallgate, along with a guard on a MCO - LIV working.

With evening prices going up next month, I can certainly see greater patronage of the buses between Stockport and Manchester, especially with the frequency of service available.

Fair play

Ahh so can I , given that the bus is £12 a week to travel whenever ,

 

[razor89]

The new restriction code is ND

OUTWARD TRAVEL
Valid on trains timed to depart between 0930 - 1600 inc and from 1830 onwards.
RETURN TRAVEL
Any train the same day except those timed to depart between 1601 - 1829 inc

I note it doesn't say you can complete your journey if it involves a change and the second train departs after 1601.

What a joke. Could have just been standardised, for example, with the Merseyside area tickets which have restriction Y9 (Not valid 0631-0929 and 1601-1759). But no, let's create yet another restriction and make it even more complicated for the travelling public to understand.

 

[pemma]

So if one of the effects of removing the dirt cheap tickets in the evenings is getting rid of the idiots who can intimidate some guards, isnt it true that the better atmosphere etc would also increase the well being of those such as women and children who also feel intimidated by such ?

Over the next few weeks why don't you announce your theory over the PA before doing ticket checks after every major station?

And what about the men who get intimidated by groups of drunk middle aged women?

 

[Moonshot]

Over the next few weeks why don't you announce your theory over the PA before doing ticket checks after every major station?

And what about the men who get intimidated by groups of drunk middle aged women?

Do you get intimidated by groups of drunk middle aged women ?

 

[ANorthernGuard]

I'm not that lucky lol

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Not sure what fares you would expect Northern to change in "ATW territory"
Been happening on other lines for years, don't know what makes Chester-Warrington-Manchester so special.

If you want Warrington BQ-Manchester you will travel on an ATW service - although it's an NT-set fare.
It just happens to be my regular line.
Folk don't comprehend obscure TOC boundaries and rules.
Hopefully "Rail North" will sort it all out...

 

[Starmill]

You must really hate your customers.

Too right.
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But hey , as has been stated on the " North isnt getting a good deal thread " , we want a railway but are not prepared to pay the true cost of a ticket.

OK, so with the doubling of fares for most evening travellers in Greater Manchester, will there be double the number of trains running?

Where is the service improvement this huge fare increase will be paying for... ?

Or will we get higher prices, fewer staff and the same services. Perfect argument for nationalisation, expect the RMT to be on to this.

 

[Moonshot]

Too right.
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OK, so with the doubling of fares for most evening travellers in Greater Manchester, will there be double the number of trains running?

Where is the service improvement this huge fare increase will be paying for... ?

Or will we get higher prices, fewer staff and the same services. Perfect argument for nationalisation, expect the RMT to be on to this.

Well I m glad you agree with me about cutting out the options.

 

[Starmill]

That situation already exists elsewhere. "Let's just make rail fare more confusing for everyone."

I don't think the objective is to confuse, just to rip off.
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Oh i daresay staff do make errors.....hardly suprising when you see the sheer complexity of the whole system both for staff and passengers. How many passengers do you hear of who have bought the wrong ticket etc....

If a passenger makes an error because they are confused by the system they risk being charged an excess, being forced to buy a new (higher priced) ticket, charged a penalty fare, accused of fare evasion, issued an £80 'fine', have to make an expensive out of court settlement or be prosecuted.

If a member of staff makes a mistake it's the passenger's fault they have the wrong ticket.
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Obviously lol. Had more hassle at !urnage than Gorton over the years. The airport line has got worse than hadfields over recent years

My God I'm surprised you're a Manc then.

 

[Cletus]

Staff Brief came out today, the following changes will happen from 7th September 2014:

Off-Peak Day tickets for travel wholly within the South Yorkshire area will not be valid from 1601 to 1829 inclusive Monday to Friday (except Bank Holidays).

Off-Peak Day and Duo tickets for travel wholly within the TfGM area, GM Rail Rangers and Daysavers (TM, TB, TBM) will not be valid from 1601 to 1829 inclusive Monday to Friday (except Bank Holidays). These restrictions will also appear on routes into the TfGM ticketing area from Alderley Edge, Burscough Bridge, Buxton, New Mills Central and Warrington (Bank Quay and Central)

GM Evening Rangers and Cheap Evening Returns will be withdrawn.

Off-Peak Day and Duo tickets for travel wholly within the West Yorkshire area, WY Day Rovers, WY Family Rovers and WY Train Day Rovers will not be valid from 1601 to 1829 inclusive Monday to Friday (except Bank Holidays) These restrictions will also appear on routes into West Yorkshire from Skipton and Knaresborough.

Off-Peak Day and Duo tickets for travel on the Hexham-Newcastle line (but not wholly within the Nexus ticketing area) will not be valid from 1601 to 1759 inclusive Monday to Friday (except Bank Holidays).

:?
So, for example, will the following be affected?

NR Day Rangers - Cheshire, Lancashire, South Pennine
TFGM/System One - Train & Tram Day Saver

 

[JonathanH]

That's some hefty restrictions.

Stealth fare rise anyone?

It isn't just a fare rise though is it? It is not as if there is a peak version of many of the day tickets. West Midlands, London, Tyne and Wear and South Yorkshire have all day rovers valid in the morning peak. There must be a price point at which these could be offered in Merseyside, Manchester (although I note nothing about the Wayfarer was included in the brief) and West Yorkshire.

 

[bb21]

It isn't just a fare rise though is it? It is not as if there is a peak version of many of the day tickets. West Midlands, London, Tyne and Wear and South Yorkshire have all day rovers valid in the morning peak. There must be a price point at which these could be offered in Merseyside, Manchester (although I note nothing about the Wayfarer was included in the brief) and West Yorkshire.

So one needing to make multiple journeys end up having to pay separately (and probably more)? Sounds like fare rise to me.

 

[JonathanH]

So one needing to make multiple journeys end up having to pay separately (and probably more)? Sounds like fare rise to me.

You missed the word *just*. It is definitely a fare rise and someone making multiple journeys who doesn't have a season ticket now can't practically make multiple journeys without paying for each one.

You could raise revenue by offering a peak version of the ranger / rover tickets getting restricted.

 

[yorksrob]

isnt it true that the better atmosphere etc would also increase the well being of those such as women and children who also feel intimidated by such ?

If those women and children are using the cheaper fares at the moment, they may be the ones put off by the increase.

This is nothing more than meddling by clueless bureaucrats in London.

 

[Moonshot]

If those women and children are using the cheaper fares at the moment, they may be the ones put off by the increase.

This is nothing more than meddling by clueless bureaucrats in London.

Dont know about London.......this has " Made in the North " written all over it.

 

[Solent&Wessex]

But no, let's create yet another restriction and make it even more complicated for the travelling public to understand.

In the vast majority of cases, most passengers will do the same off peak journey, so won't be quite so baffled by the different restrictions as you think. It is the staff, especially those who work trains in all the different PTE areas, who have difficulty with the plethora of restrictions. In many cases now people expect there to be an evening restriction and often ask me what times they can come back, and seem surprised when I say "whenever".

Of course, I totally agree with all the points that say that people who are used to the cheap evening returns and the West Yorkshire Day Rovers will not be impressed with the changes.

I would say there should be plenty of publicity in advance to minimise staff conflict, but knowing how things actually work, I expect there will be none at all.

 

[Moonshot]

So one needing to make multiple journeys end up having to pay separately (and probably more)? Sounds like fare rise to me.

Does to me as well.

 

[yorksrob]

Dont know about London.......this has " Made in the North " written all over it.

Couldn't be further off the mark.

This has been brewing since the McNulty drivel. Remember that consultation telling us how we have to have a consistant fares policy a couple of months ago? (No prizes for guessing what direction fares will be harmonised in. Clue - extortionate fares on TPE won't be changed).

This whole thing is a product of DaFT.