Overground/Crossrail takeover of Greater Anglia inners

[MikeWh]

(Im surprised AGA haven't kicked up a stick though as I doubt they get any revenue from Brentwood any longer).

Well they might do. It's a long standing concession to allow people to double back via Shenfield from the time that they stopped the fast services calling at Brentwood. At one stage there was a slightly higher (than the Brentwood) fare for doing this, but Oyster explicitly allows it so the fare was withdrawn AFAIK.

 

[Mojo]

And for paper tickets, there is an easement that allows customers from Brentwood travelling towards London to go via Shenfield anyway:

''Customers travelling from Brentwood via Gidea Park in possession of tickets routed "Any Permitted" may travel via Shenfield. They may not leave the station. This easement applies in both directions.''

 

[EM2]

There's already a petition taking TfL to task for their performance:
https://www.change.org/p/get-east-l...ish&utm_term=des-lg-share_petition-reason_msg

The standard of service on the Lines recently taken over by London Underground has fallen to a level beyond unacceptable. As commuters we are outraged by the drop in service the moment that TFL took over. We feel the need to remind TFL that commuters have responsibilities at work or simply need to get to get to their destination.

Particularly, the Chingford to Liverpool Street Service has suffered disruption, however, Enfield to Liverpool Street is suffering too.

Also affected are commuters further up the line as they simply cannot board overfull, short trains. Trains are full to capacity as near as one stop away from the beginning of the line, you are not likely to board if you are at Highams Park, Wood Street and no chance if you are at Bethnal Green or Hackney Downs. Simply put battery hens would not be allowed to be transported in the conditions we are subjected to. As a quick win, it would help if the TFL told train drivers to turn the heating off in JUNE! Doors should open. A service comparative to the volume of passengers would negate what appears to be numerous Health and Safety problems and risk to passenger safety and health.

Many Mums are having to pay daily late fees to childcare. People on trains have obligations and places they need to be! London Overground took over a fairly reliable service on 31st May, since then thousands of working Londoners have not managed to get to or from work on time and the service is being poorly managed in terms of timings and reduced carriages. We are paying passengers who deserves accountability and a better service.

Particularly, we fund this service and in no other sector would a company be allowed to behave so irresponsibly with customers needs being ignored.

Simply put - we DEMAND our train line to be run efficiently.

PS - I wrote this all and set this page up whilst sitting on a train that was cancelled. Then reduced in length. Then late. After which I got sworn at for asking which platform I would be best at. This gave me the time and inclination to see how much support we passengers can drum up.

Feel free to blame yourselves for bringing untrained staff and dismissing all the agency staff on day one rather than making a commercial decision to have a transition period. You might also like to pay some attention to your harassed front line staff who are now succumbing to workplace stress.

 

[jopsuk]

Oh, a change.org petition. TfL will be quaking in their boots at that /sarcasm

 

[AM9]

Oh, a change.org petition. TfL will be quaking in their boots at that /sarcasm

It might have a bit more weight if the grammar, spelling and word use was better. The inaccuracies don't help much either.
Never write anything that might hang around to haunt you, when in a rage.

Hardly front page news (except in Metro of the Evening Standard) is it:
"Horror, commuters rant about their service".

 

[Deerfold]

It might have a bit more weight if the grammar, spelling and word use was better. The inaccuracies don't help much either.
Never write anything that might hang around to haunt you, when in a rage.

Hardly front page news (except in Metro of the Evening Standard) is it:
"Horror, commuters rant about their service".

Lol. "Beyond unacceptable" - er, that'd have to be "acceptable", wouldn't it?

 

[TheNewNo2]

I was at North Greenwich today and heard an interesting announcement. LO services were suspended between Enfield Town and Edmonton Green due to a faulty train, but was otherwise running a good service. This is interesting because if there's no Enfield services, surely that means there's only half service running to Edmonton Green, unless there's a turnback there?

 

[toadoverload]

....Ive driven the same trains for one, nx, ga and now lorol and I can tell you that the units that have emerged after a lorol dressing down are almost like new trains. I know its not much of a consolation to passengers, and shortforms are a pain in the proverbial, but the state they were in underneath was unbelievable, dont be fooled by the GA shiny white repaint with red doors, they may aswell not have bothered.

If they (lorol) continue to service the fleet the way they have been and contiune the internal refreshes the short forms I'm sure will calm down considerably....

I'm a regular user of the Enfield Town service. I had the opportunity today whilst waiting to cross the Lincoln Road Level crossing to see a 317 come through and had a great view of the underside (railway is at higher level than the road, I wasn't lying on my back on the track!) the front unit looked like it was mid refresh paintwise and had clearly had some attention, underneath it looked new.

This was in contrast to the rear unit where the underside was looking very tired.

Overall I've found the transition to be positive and the staff on every platform can only help to create a better atmosphere at stations like Bruce Grove and Stoke 'muggers paradise' Newington.

Having lived in Bruce Grove 10 years ago the bus was often the better option as the station appeared abandoned.

However you can feel a simmering anger at Seven Sisters when a short formation turns up in the peak!

 

[Domh245]

That may have been the system telling you that the other LO lines (goblin/ell/nll/wll) are operating fine

 

[MCR247]

There's already a petition taking TfL to task for their performance:
https://www.change.org/p/get-east-l...ish&utm_term=des-lg-share_petition-reason_msg

that must be the first time I've ever heard a commuter describe AGA as a 'fairly reliable service' hock:

 

[christopher]

Not a good evening on the GEML thanks to 90016, Stratford was chaos!

The extra TfL staff making people move down inside and to stand clear of the doors really make a difference at Stratford - It's a shame that it was spoilt by someone being rather over the top announcing people to move down the platform every minute....

 

[306024]

I was at North Greenwich today and heard an interesting announcement. LO services were suspended between Enfield Town and Edmonton Green due to a faulty train, but was otherwise running a good service. This is interesting because if there's no Enfield services, surely that means there's only half service running to Edmonton Green, unless there's a turnback there?

No turn back at Edmonton Green but you can simply divert the Enfield services to Cheshunt to maintain a 15 minute service between Liverpool St and Edmonton Green. The Enfield services have longer turnrounds so there is time to get to Cheshunt and back.

 

[devon_metro]

Not a good evening on the GEML thanks to 90016, Stratford was chaos!

The extra TfL staff making people move down inside and to stand clear of the doors really make a difference at Stratford - It's a shame that it was spoilt by someone being rather over the top announcing people to move down the platform every minute....

You could argue that it's necessary to drum it into the people at Stratford who are seemingly incapable of standing clear of doors or keeping left in the subway. Platform 8 in the evenings is a truly horrible place!

It is nice that TfL have more staff to encourage this, however i've noticed some more 'tube-style' running of the trains. I was travelling into Liverpool Street from Stratford the other morning and found the driver to be closing the doors as people were still boarding (the train wasn't particularly busy so it wasn't as if people were cramming on last minute). Passengers wishing to join the train shouldn't be left behind because it takes 2 minutes to get everyone off! Unfortunately for said driver, the 315 doors aren't particularly powerful :roll:

 

[MrPIC]

The AM peak aga trains that go via edmonton and sisters are mega rammed! Guess its better to wait for a faster aga train than an all stations LOROL

edit re above comment: Both the metro platforms at Stratford are CD/RA if I remember correctly, so would be the platform staff not driver trying to squash people!

 

[ScotGG]

Overall I've found the transition to be positive and the staff on every platform can only help to create a better atmosphere at stations like Bruce Grove and Stoke 'muggers paradise' Newington.

Having lived in Bruce Grove 10 years ago the bus was often the better option as the station appeared abandoned.

However you can feel a simmering anger at Seven Sisters when a short formation turns up in the peak!

Quite. Southeastern metro routes feel similar to pre-LO Anglia metro services to me in terms of an air of neglect to many stations and trains. I was in a Southeastern metro networker train off-peak the other day; it was not only filthy as hell with rubbish and etched/marked surfaces but there was some dodgy characters about. Most stations looked unstaffed of course. It doesn't bother me so much but I did think how someone who was not a regular user would feel, and many would not return for a second trip given the general mood and feel of the train and platforms. This is off-peak I stress.

SE metro is miles off LO in terms of staffing and the feeling of safety, as well as the tube and buses. And that is no doubt putting people off, and one reason LO takeovers have worked so well (amongst many other reasons)

 

[JaJaWa]

The extra TfL staff making people move down inside and to stand clear of the doors really make a difference at Stratford

I was very impressed with the TfL Rail staff at Stratford. They were helping push loose bags into the train (Japanese style!), helping the doors to slide closed, and helping people plan journeys on their new iPads. Well done!

 

[blotred]

Quite. Southeastern metro routes feel similar to pre-LO Anglia metro services to me in terms of an air of neglect to many stations and trains. I was in a Southeastern metro networker train off-peak the other day; it was not only filthy as hell with rubbish and etched/marked surfaces but there was some dodgy characters about. Most stations looked unstaffed of course. It doesn't bother me so much but I did think how someone who was not a regular user would feel, and many would not return for a second trip given the general mood and feel of the train and platforms. This is off-peak I stress.

SE metro is miles off LO in terms of staffing and the feeling of safety, as well as the tube and buses. And that is no doubt putting people off, and one reason LO takeovers have worked so well (amongst many other reasons)

This is what I find crazy.
Southern's metro services are usually clean, the stations in pretty good condition and stations staffed... Govia run both, yet there is a massive difference!

(Regular Southern Metro user here, on trains to/from Victoria)

 

[christopher]

I was very impressed with the TfL Rail staff at Stratford. They were helping push loose bags into the train (Japanese style!), helping the doors to slide closed, and helping people plan journeys on their new iPads. Well done!

It's quite amazing how much it helps, Trains get away much quicker now

 

[450.emu]

I'm a regular user of the Enfield Town service. I had the opportunity today whilst waiting to cross the Lincoln Road Level crossing to see a 317 come through and had a great view of the underside (railway is at higher level than the road, I wasn't lying on my back on the track!) the front unit looked like it was mid refresh paintwise and had clearly had some attention, underneath it looked new.

This was in contrast to the rear unit where the underside was looking very tired.

Overall I've found the transition to be positive and the staff on every platform can only help to create a better atmosphere at stations like Bruce Grove and Stoke 'muggers paradise' Newington.

Having lived in Bruce Grove 10 years ago the bus was often the better option as the station appeared abandoned.

However you can feel a simmering anger at Seven Sisters when a short formation turns up in the peak!

I too am an ex-resident of Bruce Grove, having fled for civilzation in SW London, I still pass by Bruce Grove to fix the ticket machine from time to time... I've yet to see the Overground effect - they need to still do the signage outside, but overall the area doesn't look as grim... I want to see if they've polished the turds that are Maryland and Rectory Road :roll:

 

[VauxhallandI]

I too am an ex-resident of Bruce Grove, having fled for civilzation in SW London, I still pass by Bruce Grove to fix the ticket machine from time to time... I've yet to see the Overground effect - they need to still do the signage outside, but overall the area doesn't look as grim... I want to see if they've polished the turds that are Maryland and Rectory Road :roll:

They have managed to scrub what was a permanent smell of **** from the stairs at Theobalds Grove.

Also cleared the mass of spiders webs from inside the roof of Seven Sisters.

Now that wasn't too hard AGA was it.

 

[matt_world2004]

When crossrail takes over the Great Western Suburban are the overnight suburban services to Paddington going to remain because if they don't that is going to be a pretty big service reduction, particularly for the night airport workers and whenever I have rolled off an late turn the FGW's always seem full.

 

[jon0844]

They have managed to scrub what was a permanent smell of **** from the stairs at Theobalds Grove.

Also cleared the mass of spiders webs from inside the roof of Seven Sisters.

Now that wasn't too hard AGA was it.

While I am sure AGA could and should have done a lot of things, I assume it comes down to money.. and TfL is spending rather a lot on doing things its way. Meanwhile, the GA franchise didn't include spending money on stations (especially once it was known that TfL was taking over some services).

Now, I know that a lot of people moan about what they get for the money they pay on their season tickets, but I assume that TfL has to get its money from somewhere too? I am sure someone will point out that TfL has actually cut some fares, but my point still stands - someone is paying for all of these improvements.

Don't get me wrong, I do like the LO way of doing things. Clean stations, staff from start to finish of service etc - but it isn't free. It reminds me a bit of when Homer Simpson was put in charge of sanitation and spent his whole budget in a matter of days - but, boy, did people have a great rubbish collection service for that time!

 

[VauxhallandI]

While I am sure AGA could and should have done a lot of things, I assume it comes down to money.. and TfL is spending rather a lot on doing things its way. Meanwhile, the GA franchise didn't include spending money on stations (especially once it was known that TfL was taking over some services).

Now, I know that a lot of people moan about what they get for the money they pay on their season tickets, but I assume that TfL has to get its money from somewhere too? I am sure someone will point out that TfL has actually cut some fares, but my point still stands - someone is paying for all of these improvements.

Don't get me wrong, I do like the LO way of doing things. Clean stations, staff from start to finish of service etc - but it isn't free. It reminds me a bit of when Homer Simpson was put in charge of sanitation and spent his whole budget in a matter of days - but, boy, did people have a great rubbish collection service for that time!

Oh indeed I am not getting out the bunting yet!

It's just the lack of transparency, I was told eighteen months or so ago that the line manager would look into the station. This was repeated again again when chased. I knew fine well what the truth was but its the being treated like a chump that is a bit annoying.

Someone somewhere is paying.

 

[hassaanhc]

While I am sure AGA could and should have done a lot of things, I assume it comes down to money.. and TfL is spending rather a lot on doing things its way. Meanwhile, the GA franchise didn't include spending money on stations (especially once it was known that TfL was taking over some services).

Now, I know that a lot of people moan about what they get for the money they pay on their season tickets, but I assume that TfL has to get its money from somewhere too? I am sure someone will point out that TfL has actually cut some fares, but my point still stands - someone is paying for all of these improvements.

Don't get me wrong, I do like the LO way of doing things. Clean stations, staff from start to finish of service etc - but it isn't free. It reminds me a bit of when Homer Simpson was put in charge of sanitation and spent his whole budget in a matter of days - but, boy, did people have a great rubbish collection service for that time!

Oh indeed I am not getting out the bunting yet!

It's just the lack of transparency, I was told eighteen months or so ago that the line manager would look into the station. This was repeated again again when chased. I knew fine well what the truth was but its the being treated like a chump that is a bit annoying.

Someone somewhere is paying.

How long before removal of point-to-point seasons and everyone is forced to use travelcards like on the NLL? I predict 2017 :P

 

[matt_world2004]

While I am sure AGA could and should have done a lot of things, I assume it comes down to money.. and TfL is spending rather a lot on doing things its way. Meanwhile, the GA franchise didn't include spending money on stations (especially once it was known that TfL was taking over some services).

Now, I know that a lot of people moan about what they get for the money they pay on their season tickets, but I assume that TfL has to get its money from somewhere too? I am sure someone will point out that TfL has actually cut some fares, but my point still stands - someone is paying for all of these improvements.

Don't get me wrong, I do like the LO way of doing things. Clean stations, staff from start to finish of service etc - but it isn't free. It reminds me a bit of when Homer Simpson was put in charge of sanitation and spent his whole budget in a matter of days - but, boy, did people have a great rubbish collection service for that time!

TfL are not getting any additional taxpayers money for running the greater anglia services, If anything the reduction of the block grant means they are getting less money. They are getting additional ticket and travelcard income that would have otherwise gone to greater Anglia, It is quite likely that the high level of specificity in service standards for TfL concessionaire contracts mean that a concessionaire is more likely to keep the stations clean and maintain the rolling stock. To avoid penalty clauses in the contract.

 

[jon0844]

But if TfL doesn't get any more money, and the costs outweigh the income, then there will be cuts somewhere.

I obviously hope this won't be the case, and wholeheartedly believe in LO and would quite like LO to start running on the ECML and Hertford Loop, but it all sounds too good to be true.

I guess that given LO has only been around since 2007 and it has nice new stations and trains, the real 'test' is how things will look in 20 years or so when the stations aren't quite so shiny, and the trains are getting on...

 

[matt_world2004]

But if TfL doesn't get any more money, and the costs outweigh the income, then there will be cuts somewhere.

I obviously hope this won't be the case, and wholeheartedly believe in LO and would quite like LO to start running on the ECML and Hertford Loop, but it all sounds too good to be true.

I guess that given LO has only been around since 2007 and it has nice new stations and trains, the real 'test' is how things will look in 20 years or so when the stations aren't quite so shiny, and the trains are getting on...

Do you know that costs outweigh the income? As so far as I am aware, the concessionaire is paid a fixed amount to run the services with additional percentage bonuses for going above the agreed targets set by TfL if that is the case, and the Concessionaire has bid to low too run the contract(Which I doubt with MTR TBH) then it would be the concessionaires responcibilty to shoulder the risk of underbidding.

TfL are getting more money, they are getting the ticketing and travelcard revenue that would have previously gone to Greater Anglia.

 

[jon0844]

If TfL can not lose anything and it falls on the operator then perhaps that's okay then, unless one day the operator hands back the keys?

I guess the issue will be what happens with future contracts, if the costs start to rise and it's deemed acceptable to cut back on things. As the years go on, there will presumably be some hefty bills.

 

[ScotGG]

TfL take the philosophy that you have to spend money to make money. Spend a modest amount cleaning trains and stations and more people will feel safe and comfortable using them. And given the record on every line they've taken over so far that's been proven correct.

As I said earlier, Southeastern and other some TOCs don't seem to grasp this, thus the trains and stations are sometimes disgusting and feel unsafe, and this puts off some from travelling. First impressions count, and the state of too many services mean repeat business is not happening, unlike on LO.

It's not the only factor of course, and there's lots of other things at play like the DfT not specifying cleaning standards or short term franchises, but still, too many TOCs havn't bothered even with 6/8 years left. They lack the nous and imagination it seems to work out a better environment equals more passengers. TfL do, and take the risk to reap the rewards.

 

[Busaholic]

Rode a train from seven sisters to enfield town today. It appeared clean and I got rpi'd at enfield town.Which is definitely LOROL telling fare evaders there is a new kid on the block. At seven sisters I accidentally walked into a staff area thinking it was a waiting room. I also accidentally touched out on the behind barrier oyster validators at seven sisters which could have caused problems had I not been travelling under a concessionary ticket. I noticed several people who were old enough to have a freedom pass travelling on paper tickets.

The problem for some of us old enough to have freedom passes is that we don't qualify through not being resident in Greater London! It's a bugbear of mine - my bus pass may be valid but if I'm being charged up to the Oyster cap on train services I haven't in effect enjoyed any free bus travel that day.