The simplest solution would be to get rid of any 'premium' element of saving ~ 2 minutes on a non-stop service.
But Gatwick Airport don't want that, they want a 'premium' service for their premium airport, forcing passengers not wanting to pay the premium onto overcrowded 377s where the 442s roll around carrying fresh air.
But Gatwick Express is not a TOC...
But it is listed as one in the NRCoC...But Gatwick Express is not a TOC...
Go on then, what's the Company number? Do enlighten us!But it is listed as one in the NRCoC...
So, you disagree with the DfT, Southern, Companies House, us, and just about everyone apart from a handful of Southern revenue/gateline staff who pretend to work for this fictional Company.DfT said:...The Department has discussed the status of Gatwick Express with Southern who agree that there is no separate Gatwick Express franchise or Train Operating Company....
But it is listed as one in the NRCoC...
But it is listed as one in the NRCoC...
Irrelevant.Go on then, what's the Company number? Do enlighten us!
TBH, I couldn't give a monkey's whether people using a Southern Only ticket on a GatEx service get PF'd or not.I've been following this thread but now it is just going round in circles, however I must say that I admire transmanche's persistence in the face of overwhelming odds. Either transmanche is wrong and very stubborn or there is some substance to her/his argument. I wonder if we'll ever know.
The DfT already answered that question years ago. See my post above yours!I've been following this thread but now it is just going round in circles, however I must say that I admire transmanche's persistence in the face of overwhelming odds. Either transmanche is wrong and very stubborn or there is some substance to her/his argument. I wonder if we'll ever know.
22 posts in a thread where someone wants help appealing a PF for using a Southern Only ticket on Southern's GatEx service suggests you do give a monkeys about the matter, and are very keen on the person who requests help not receiving it. Well, the OP is getting the help he deserves and the OP will be successful.TBH, I couldn't give a monkey's whether people using a Southern Only ticket on a GatEx service get PF'd or not.
Irrelevant.
It matters not if it is officially/legally a TOC for licensing purposes. What matters for the purpose of interpreting the NRCoC it how that document defines a TOC. And as defined by the NRCoC (and solely for the purposes of the NRCoC), Gatwick Express is a TOC.
What concerns me is the attitude of people on here who know full well what is intended by the ticket and are prepared to use partial and selective interpretations of the rules in order to convince themselves and others that they are right. (I won't say 'pedantic', because apparently that is not allowed.) And even worse, to apparently encourage others to use a 'Southern Only' ticket on a GatEx train.
I too am in admiration transmanche's persistence. In wondering what the substance to his/her argument is I think DaleCooper has hit the nail on the head.I've been following this thread but now it is just going round in circles, however I must say that I admire transmanche's persistence in the face of overwhelming odds. Either transmanche is wrong and very stubborn or there is some substance to her/his argument. I wonder if we'll ever know.
No it's because it seems that some people are so unwilling to even consider the possibility that they could wrong, and thus resort to "sarcasm, insults and vitriol directed at me just because I don't toe the party line".22 posts in a thread where someone wants help appealing a PF for using a Southern Only ticket on Southern's GatEx service suggests you do give a monkeys about the matte
What then disappoints me is the sarcasm, insults and vitriol directed at me just because I don't toe the party line. That's quite sad. There are some contributors to this forum who I previously respected and held their opinions in high regard. But not any more.
I am also trying to keep an open mind but surely repeating the same thing is not wrong if it is a valid argument.
Is there any chance that you could be confusing the message with the messenger?Go on then, what's the Company number? Do enlighten us!
. . . . .
So, you disagree with the DfT, Southern, Companies House, us, and just about everyone apart from a handful of Southern revenue/gateline staff who pretend to work for this fictional Company.
I share your dissapointment. There appears to be a number of regular posters who will direct their passionate dislike for a policy or practice towards ther person who reports it - it appears to me that you are being attacked for exactly that error. [Shakespeare repeatedly tried to illustrate the folly and the temptation of confusing the messenger with the message, but despite the exceptional position that Shakespeare occupies in the nation's education, we still seem to struggle to separate the two correctly].What then disappoints me is the sarcasm, insults and vitriol directed at me just because I don't toe the party line. That's quite sad. There are some contributors to this forum who I previously respected and held their opinions in high regard. But not any more.
What then disappoints me is the sarcasm, insults and vitriol directed at me just because I don't toe the party line. That's quite sad. There are some contributors to this forum who I previously respected and held their opinions in high regard. But not any more.
I share your dissapointment. There appears to be a number of regular posters who will direct their passionate dislike for a policy or practice towards ther person who reports it - it appears to me that you are being attacked for exactly that error. [Shakespeare repeatedly tried to illustrate the folly and the temptation of confusing the messenger with the message, but despite the exceptional position that Shakespeare occupies in the nation's education, we still seem to struggle to separate the two correctly].
Hang on a sec.TBH, I couldn't give a monkey's whether people using a Southern Only ticket on a GatEx service get PF'd or not.
What concerns me is the attitude of people on here who know full well what is intended by the ticket and are prepared to use partial and selective interpretations of the rules in order to convince themselves and others that they are right. (I won't say 'pedantic', because apparently that is not allowed.) And even worse, to apparently encourage others to use a 'Southern Only' ticket on a GatEx train.
What then disappoints me is the sarcasm, insults and vitriol directed at me just because I don't toe the party line. That's quite sad. There are some contributors to this forum who I previously respected and held their opinions in high regard. But not any more.
The answer you get will depend on how you ask the question, and who you ask. I know of several people who were told it wasn't valid but as soon as they produced the Southern route map were "let off". This is only about the 4th or 5th case I know of where someone was actually charged. You're also more likely to be told yes if you're boarding at Brighton compared to Gatwick Airport.In any case I've sent them a message asking bluntly if its valid or not.
The answer you get will depend on how you ask the question, and who you ask. I know of several people who were told it wasn't valid but as soon as they produced the Southern route map were "let off". This is only about the 4th or 5th case I know of where someone was actually charged. You're also more likely to be told yes if you're boarding at Brighton compared to Gatwick Airport.
The fact that when challenged they seem to relent in all cases only reinforces this.
Southern knows full well what the position is. Just as private companies issue unenforceable parking tickets, but see (apparently) approximately 60% of them being paid, you can understand why Southern will continue to sell these tickets and trust that the vast majority of people will pay, and most will be happy too - as it's quite common and usual to take an airport express train into a city centre.
If Southern is trying to enforce a "rule" that is has no right to enforce, then the pendantry is right.
What you should be outraged about is one of the "big boys" (ie- a registered company) is pushing around the little guys (ie - us) to milk them for money which they have no right to.
At the risk of going off-topic, recent judgments suggest that private parking tickets are indeed enforceable.
Having looked at this thread several times I have come to the conclusion that Southern are definitely "at it" by deliberately exploiting the aforementioned ambiguities re validity of "Southern Only" tickets on GE.
If it's indeed a loop hole, would it not be reasonable to expect said loop hole to be closed once it has been discovered to prevent its 'abuse'?