Potential Labour Party split (Split now happened).

[PR1Berske]

First Tory MPs to cross the floor in something like 15 years, iirc.

 

[DarloRich]

A really big step for 3 Tories to bail. Tories never bail.

For now. There's no guarantee they will be re-elected, though on the face of it I like their initial go at a set of high level principles so I might well vote for one were one in my constituency.

As might I!

 

[Cowley]

And me...

 

[GusB]

In previous years, I would have expected the LibDems to be the natural refuge for disaffected Labour or Conservatives MPs - can we now consider the LibDems to be a spent force?

 

[Geezertronic]

Quite. He's as far left a mainstream politician as the UK has had in quite a long time, but I can see no evidence whatsoever to suggest that he proposes to rescind democracy or anything quite so ridiculous as that.

Just reminded me of John Hurt's performance as High Chancellor Adam Sutler in the film "V for Vendetta", there is a likeness to Corbyn wouldn't you say?

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

A really big step for 3 Tories to bail. Tories never bail.

Yes, that was my thought exactly, most unusual...yet of course they are joining others who have voted and will presumably continue to vote for all the Austerity measures since 2010, Heidi Allen has been outspoken on the effects of Austerity recently.
Just listened to her resignation speech and she concentrated almost entirely on the effects of the Government's Austerity programme....not mentioned of course by any of the Labour defectors

 

[Bletchleyite]

Just reminded me of John Hurt's performance as High Chancellor Adam Sutler in the film "V for Vendetta", there is a likeness to Corbyn wouldn't you say?

Not seen it, I'm afraid

 

[Bletchleyite]

In previous years, I would have expected the LibDems to be the natural refuge for disaffected Labour or Conservatives MPs - can we now consider the LibDems to be a spent force?

I think they could well be, yes.

 

[433N]

In previous years, I would have expected the LibDems to be the natural refuge for disaffected Labour or Conservatives MPs - can we now consider the LibDems to be a spent force?

Rightly or wrongly, I voted for them in 'that' election because on paper they had the most left wing policies. To then be slapped in the face like they did by going into bed with the Tories without even talking to Labour was beyond the pail.

You can wibble all you like about the rights and wrongs of doing that but in my view, they should rot in hell. Some things can't be forgiven.

I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels that way.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels that way.

There are also those of us who feel the opposite. Until this potential new slightly left of centre party, the coalition has been the closest to representing my politics of any UK Government in my lifetime. (Blairite Labour, minus the warmongering and nanny stateism, would also be close, though I am also very strongly against the direct involvement of Trade Unionism in Government).

I have voted Lib Dem but find them too far left on some things, though as a single party they are probably the closest.

That doesn't mean I'm opposed to Trade Unionism in itself, I feel they play an important role, however Government is not that role. To me their role is to manage the relationship between employer and employee in those industries where that being managed on a direct, individualised basis doesn't by the nature of that industry work well, as well as to provide good advice to their members on how to deal with related matters.

 

[bramling]

A really big step for 3 Tories to bail. Tories never bail.

Carswell, Reckless?

 

[bramling]

Rightly or wrongly, I voted for them in 'that' election because on paper they had the most left wing policies. To then be slapped in the face like they did by going into bed with the Tories without even talking to Labour was beyond the pail.

You can wibble all you like about the rights and wrongs of doing that but in my view, they should rot in hell. Some things can't be forgiven.

I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels that way.

Surely it can be seen that the natural place to start a coalition discussion is with the party who came first in the election?

I really don't get the logic behind ditching the Liberal Democrats on the basis they went into a coalition with the Conservatives, the result of which was then a majority Conservative government! I'm sure I remember Portillo making a point that Liberal Democrat voters are often a confused bunch.

 

[furnessvale]

Corbyn is a fair way left, but I think suggesting he is Marxist is along the same lines as suggesting the Tories are fascist.

Who mentioned Corbyn? He is just a puppet who would be brushed aside should the people of the UK ever be silly enough to vote that way.

People like McDonnell are the ones to watch.

 

[WelshBluebird]

Who mentioned Corbyn? He is just a puppet who would be brushed aside should the people of the UK ever be silly enough to vote that way.

People like McDonnell are the ones to watch.

Again any evidence that an elected MP is a would be dictator? Thought not.

 

[overthewater]

First Tory MPs to cross the floor in something like 15 years, iirc.

Thats because the other two had by elections for UKIP.

 

[overthewater]

Yes i do believe the elections in Venezuela were 100% legit. It is all the western propaganda media (like BBC CNN FOX etc) making up lies saying they were not. The voting systems in place were very secure and made it almost impossible to fraud the system. Also there were many international observers there who confirmed that everything was fair and legit. Something that they don't tell you is that the opposition (including far right terrorist and USA puppet Juan Guaido and his team) actually asked the UN and international observers not to attend. They didn't want them attending because they knew that Nicolas Maduro was running fair legitimate elections and they knew that it would make it harder to lie and say that they were rigged. So the elections in Venezuela were actually 100% legit.

Many western so called democratic countries have had far more questionable elections. Including in the USA and many western European countries which have had some rather dodgy elections..

Alas the turnout was so dire, because the voters didn't believe in the vote. They did not want to engage with what there saw was a corupte election.

 

[DarloRich]

Carswell, Reckless?

they went to UKIP. That is just Tory +

(TBH I forgot about them)

 

[krus_aragon]

Not seen it, I'm afraid

Here's a few clips of the character in question:

 

[Howardh]

Carswell, Reckless?

I thought that - did they simply switch from Tory to UKIP as sitting MP's or did they resign and stand again in their seats? overthewater alludes to the latter?

 

[telstarbox]

They both resigned and won the by-elections as UKIP candidates.

 

[Basher]

In previous years, I would have expected the LibDems to be the natural refuge for disaffected Labour or Conservatives MPs - can we now consider the LibDems to be a spent force?

I agree thank goodness.

 

[Ken H]

Carswell, Reckless?

they were honourable and forced a by-election to get a mandate. no sign of that from this sorry bunch. All elected on a 'leave EU' ticket and now seeking to overturn a referendum.

 

[Ken H]

I thought that - did they simply switch from Tory to UKIP as sitting MP's or did they resign and stand again in their seats? overthewater alludes to the latter?

stood again

 

[433N]

I really don't get the logic behind ditching the Liberal Democrats on the basis they went into a coalition with the Conservatives, the result of which was then a majority Conservative government!

Perfectly logical if you hate everything the Tories stand for, I would have thought. I'm not sure what there is to 'not get'.

I'm sure I remember Portillo making a point that Liberal Democrat voters are often a confused bunch.

Yeah, well, Portillo is a pompous git who is wrong about alot of things.

 

[mmh]

And than to remember this has nothing or just partly to do with brexit? I hope i am right or just get punished by you on this forum!

For once, it has everything to do with Brexit. It's the only thing they have in common, which is why they're doomed to failure as a "new movement" - collectively, there's nothing they are in favour of.

 

[mmh]

But they've just done something one of whose most likely effects is to sacrifice their own careers. You may disagree with them but 'self-serving career' describes the very opposite of what they've just done.

Which is what they would love everyone to think. The Brexit Martyrs. If they were so principled we'd be preparing for eleven by-elections.

 

[bramling]

Perfectly logical if you hate everything the Tories stand for, I would have thought. I'm not sure what there is to 'not get'.

What I don't get is why someone would hate something so much that they vote in such a way that they end up getting a far worse version of what they claimed to hate.

 

[bramling]

Which is what they would love everyone to think. The Brexit Martyrs. If they were so principled we'd be preparing for eleven by-elections.

The reality is that most or all of them were effectively finished in their own party for one reason or another, so little to lose by doing a runner. In the case of the Labour ones they were heading for deselection, and in the case of the Conservative ones heading for rest of career on the backbenches. I don't think they've sacrificed anything, especially if no by-elections take place.

Soubry's electoral position is in any case dodgy as she's a heavily pro-remain MP in a marginal leave-majority constituency.

 

[433N]

What I don't get is why someone would hate something so much that they vote in such a way that they end up getting a far worse version of what they claimed to hate.

Nah. You've lost me.

 

[433N]

they were honourable and forced a by-election to get a mandate. no sign of that from this sorry bunch. All elected on a 'leave EU' ticket and now seeking to overturn a referendum.

They were elected on a 'ticket' for many things and in their press conference they did explain this and that they were also leaving because no progress were being made on those ; allegedly pertaining to making life better for the disenfranchised , disadvantaged etc... which May herself had promised too.

It wasn't a 'one policy' general election.