Priv fares

[Frontera2]

Easy to say for you with your First Class Status pass eh...:roll:

That's irrelevant for the purposes of this debate

 

[LowLevel]

The day the management become bothered about this issue is likely to be the day hell freezes over. I could lose count of the number of managers working in and out of any railway city at commuting times from all operators who ask for lifts to various destinations. That's without the very many 'retired' status pass holders using their passes to come and go from consultancy work.

It is how it is, every few years someone gets irritated about it, and it carries on.

For the record, I generally buy tickets except where I don't have to.

 

[ComUtoR]

I'm not sure where I stand with NR getting free travel or priv rate cards etc but I would like further debate on it. The whole "free travel/Priv" system is unfair and unbalanced.

IF NR were to get travel privileges; which TOC should they get free travel for ?

eg. Should a foreign Welsh Level Crossing Signaler get free travel on a London Metro train ?

 

[Haywain]

My view is that all priv-entitled rail staff (of whom I am one) should travel in accordance with the facilities they are issued, whether that means filling out boxes or buying priv rate tickets. It is certainly the culture amongst the people I work with that you should do so.

It is sad to say that amongst some rail staff there is a culture that tends towards bullying about the "railway family", as if that is some sort of exemption to the rules that apply to the public. Now, you can't force someone to take your money, but you can try not to be in that position to start with, in the same way we expect Joe Public to act.

 

[455driver]

But then Mr fare dodger wont help the guard out in an emergency or help them assist a real fare dodger off the train, both of which I have done when travelling 'fraudulently'.

Some people don't like the fact that a lot of us still see fellow rail employees as family and treat them accordingly.

 

[Llanigraham]

Or buy a ticket under the generous staff discount scheme...

But not all rail staff get that!!
See previous comments re NR staff!!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The solution is to remove said discount from rail staff, who clearly don't appreciate it.

Why should I spend £100 on a return to Cornwall, paying the wages for fare dodgers who decide that they don't need to pay?

If someone in the council decides not to pay council tax, or someone in the bbc doesn't bother with the license, or someone working for powergen ignores their electricity bill, what happens?

Or is it simply the railways, who get massive subsidies from the uk public, are special?

I think it's time to petition to remove these enormous 75% discounts, let alone the culture of fare evasion. Austerity is hitting us all, why does one industry get a pass? When you cope without a subsidy you can have it back.

Shall you also remove the staff discounts the likes of employees of Tesco's or John Lewis get?
Or the free tickets British Airways and Virgin give their staff?
Or are you just going to pick on us railworkers?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I'm not sure where I stand with NR getting free travel or priv rate cards etc but I would like further debate on it. The whole "free travel/Priv" system is unfair and unbalanced.

IF NR were to get travel privileges; which TOC should they get free travel for ?

eg. Should a foreign Welsh Level Crossing Signaler get free travel on a London Metro train ?

Yes please!

 

[Hadders]

I do believe all railway staff should get the same staff travel discounts, including NR staff.

 

[Mag_seven]

That's without the very many 'retired' status pass holders using their passes to come and go from consultancy work.

My understanding is that "retired" facilities are for leisure use only.

 

[ComUtoR]

Yes please!

In all seriousness, Its my one sticking point. I'd love to support NR employees getting TOC priv travel but my concern is the regional aspects of it all. NR is a national company but TOC's are regional.

I would accept that it would apply to the full time employed and not the plethora of sub contractors and part time workers but NR employees getting TOC specific free privs becomes complicated.

You should get ATOC :/

What do NR have to reciprocate with ? ASLEF failed miserably with their recent attempts and should have started small with reciprocal agreements between TOCs but NR have nothing to offer. It becomes a one way benefit and TOC's will find that an impossible pill to swallow.

 

[Llanigraham]

In all seriousness, Its my one sticking point. I'd love to support NR employees getting TOC priv travel but my concern is the regional aspects of it all. NR is a national company but TOC's are regional.

I would accept that it would apply to the full time employed and not the plethora of sub contractors and part time workers but NR employees getting TOC specific free privs becomes complicated.

You should get ATOC :/

What do NR have to reciprocate with ? ASLEF failed miserably with their recent attempts and should have started small with reciprocal agreements between TOCs but NR have nothing to offer. It becomes a one way benefit and TOC's will find that an impossible pill to swallow.

Problem:
Which TOC?
It might be fine for me as I only "work" ATW, but what about (say) Birmingham who deal with several?

Personally I don't think it will ever happen; NR had suggested a discount card but removed that offer when our pay deal was rejected, and the RMT doesn't appear to be very interested in us signallers.

I just buy my tickets and hope that a nice guard might upgrade me to First when it is available.

 

[Frontera2]

I do believe all railway staff should get the same staff travel discounts, including NR staff.

With my business hat on, and this isn't necessarily my personal view, here's an analogy to consider.

If you were an air-traffic controller, would you expect to get a discount on British Airways? ( they don't, but NATS is the signaller of the skies )

If you worked for the highways agency maintaining the roads, controlling the cameras etc. would you expect to get a discount on National Express?

 

[fireftrm]

To follow that a devil's advocate response..... If you worked for British Airways would you expect a discount from Virgin Atlantic? That's the equivalent here.

 

[Andrew1395]

As a long standing rail employee with safeguarded travel, and a former manger of revenue protection staff; fare evasion by staff has never been tolerated. I cannot speak for new entrants favcilities, but know for a fact that safeguarded staff and pensioners sign a contract when the receive their staff facilities which says that that fare evasion can result in the withdrawal of facilities from the holder and all dependants and the dismissal of employees. I know of senior managers who have been dismissed for the misuse of free tickets handed out to friends when intended for BR business use and the loss of facilities when dependants misused priv and free travel. To say that the avoidance of paying or the misuse of priv and free travel is widespread and tolerated by the TOCS is not the case.

 

[matt_world2004]

Rail staff who travel free when they are not entitled to it are effectively stealing from their colleagues. That being said on services I pay to travel on even if it is for work related travel I will behave like a normal customer instead of a walking customer information point that I am when I am travelling on my own services.

 

[craigybagel]

Rail staff who travel free when they are not entitled to it are effectively stealing from their colleagues.

But how can it be stealing if they ask you first? Granted, if someone just jumped on my train without asking I would be annoyed, but that's never happened to me yet.

In the same way, I have also permitted various other people to travel without valid tickets. My employer and the rule book gives me the power to use discretion and that is what I do. I don't see how giving a colleague from another company a lift to work is any more harmful than allowing a passenger to travel an hour late on an advance ticket because of traffic, or let a schoolchild who I know is a regular but has lost their pass travel home.

 

[matt_world2004]

But how can it be stealing if they ask you first? Granted, if someone just jumped on my train without asking I would be annoyed, but that's never happened to me yet.

In the same way, I have also permitted various other people to travel without valid tickets. My employer and the rule book gives me the power to use discretion and that is what I do. I don't see how giving a colleague from another company a lift to work is any more harmful than allowing a passenger to travel an hour late on an advance ticket because of traffic, or let a schoolchild who I know is a regular but has lost their pass travel home.

You are deproving the train operating company of revenue that is used to pay your collegues. Also you are risking your collegues getting disciplinary action for allowing you on for free.

 

[LowLevel]

I will say that the number of priv tickets I've seen about has increased substantially since the new rules on off peak tickets were brought in.

 

[Shaggy]

I will say that the number of priv tickets I've seen about has increased substantially since the new rules on off peak tickets were brought in.

This doesn't surprise me in the slightest.

Having a walk up return fare of nearly £100 from London to Scotland is not much of a perk to use (I think I used this once). Now I can get a super off peak return for roughly £35. That is a perk and one I use a number of times throughout the year.

Also I think a lot of staff now think "what's the point". The new PRIV fares are so low most of the time that why bother with the fuss of trying to hitch a ride.

 

[158801]

To me, the problem with Network Rail staff getting free / priv travel is what do the TOC's get in return? Free or reduced signalling cable?

As with European travel. Portugal, for example, only offer free travel to active staff from Britain so we only offer free travel to active staff from Portugal.

I suppose with the current ATOC scheme, if Virgin Trains pull out of it then we wouldn't expect their staff still to be able to travel on other TOC's if we can't travel on their trains.

As a previous poster said, British Airways may offer reduced travel to easyJet staff but then easyJet staff should get reduced travel on BA.
However Air Traffic Control staff don't get anything - even though they're all in the aviation business.

Too many staff make the rules up themselves - which is not helpful - "I will never charge another member of rail staff" for example.

Imagine this attitude in a hotel or shop where staff decide to give freebies out and disregard the rules. The staff at the Tesco's for example, say " I always give free food out to other shop staff" I somehow dont think that they would be in a job for long.

I get free travel on my TOC and I'm very fortunate to get 75% off other companies - even though my employer really has nothing to do with them.

The people who speak and look through rose tinted glasses at the old BR days are not always right. I only received unlimited residential travel. Everything else was fill a "box" out or pay the priv rate. At least now I can make unlimited free journies on my TOC.

 

[davetheguard]

I will say that the number of priv tickets I've seen about has increased substantially since the new rules on off peak tickets were brought in.

ATOC's website says the new priv availability has been extended for another year. So another year of CDR's, SVR's etc.

Can anybody in the know make a judgement about whether this arrangement will ever become permanent; or will it always be viewed as a trial, to be extended one year at a time, while is stays profitable?

 

[tiptoptaff]

Slightly off topic - but now I'll be working for a TOC can I get a refund on my 3yr 16-25 railcard that I've only held for 4months?

 

[70014IronDuke]

As a long standing rail employee with safeguarded travel, and a former manger of revenue protection staff; fare evasion by staff has never been tolerated.
...

This. I'm quite shocked by what I read on this thread.

When I joined BR in 1969, it was made clear. No abuse of the priv card - in those days it was plain green, no photo - and I have vague memories of a clerk or someone at Derby receiving serious disciplinary action for lending one out.

It felt (at least to me) so serous that on leaving BR, I made sure i sent my priv card back to my home station promptly so that there would be no suspicion that I misused it. (I kept my international card, and footplate pass for momentos - still have 'em! - but I never used them illicitly)

And to whoever claimed staff used to travel free - this is nonsense. On duty, yes, but for leisure it was six free BR return tickets a year for most salaried staff after working one year. And BR's remit then was French/Belgian Ports to Irish ports.

The rest of your travel had to be on 1/4 priv.

Once you got to management grades and passes, different rules applied, I think.

IIRC, if you used the train to work, a season was free up to 8 miles from work, then you paid 1/4 rate.

Abroad, it was 2 free return tickets in NL, BE and FR. Other European countries was one free return. With the International card, it was 1/4 rate on FR and BE train, half rate elsewhere.

As regards the NR thing - of course, when it was a vertically integrated company, conditions were across the board, to signallers and pw staff and whoever.

My impression is that back in the day - say pre 1960, when car ownership was a not the norm and rail pay tended to be low anyway - priv travel + free tickets were a huge perk for many workers, but by the 70s many BR staff hardly used the possibilities - certainly not abroad.

 

[CyrusWuff]

Slightly off topic - but now I'll be working for a TOC can I get a refund on my 3yr 16-25 railcard that I've only held for 4months?

Railcards are non-refundable I'm afraid. Though don't forget that said Railcard gives you a discount on Advance tickets (both First Class and Standard), and in Seated accommodation on the Caledonian Sleeper, and tickets purchased with it mean you don't have to give up your seat if there are standing passengers...And those are just three things off the top of my head.

 

[matt_world2004]

This. I'm quite shocked by what I read on this thread.

When I joined BR in 1969, it was made clear. No abuse of the priv card - in those days it was plain green, no photo - and I have vague memories of a clerk or someone at Derby receiving serious disciplinary action for lending one out.

It felt (at least to me) so serous that on leaving BR, I made sure i sent my priv card back to my home station promptly so that there would be no suspicion that I misused it. (I kept my international card, and footplate pass for momentos - still have 'em! - but I never used them illicitly)

And to whoever claimed staff used to travel free - this is nonsense. On duty, yes, but for leisure it was six free BR return tickets a year for most salaried staff after working one year. And BR's remit then was French/Belgian Ports to Irish ports.

The rest of your travel had to be on 1/4 priv.

Once you got to management grades and passes, different rules applied, I think.

IIRC, if you used the train to work, a season was free up to 8 miles from work, then you paid 1/4 rate.

Abroad, it was 2 free return tickets in NL, BE and FR. Other European countries was one free return. With the International card, it was 1/4 rate on FR and BE train, half rate elsewhere.

As regards the NR thing - of course, when it was a vertically integrated company, conditions were across the board, to signallers and pw staff and whoever.

My impression is that back in the day - say pre 1960, when car ownership was a not the norm and rail pay tended to be low anyway - priv travel + free tickets were a huge perk for many workers, but by the 70s many BR staff hardly used the possibilities - certainly not abroad.

If you worked at multiple sites/had multiple booking on locations during BR Eg you were a CSA for a block of stations did you get free travel from your primary site/base? Because it would have put rail staff at a disadvantage when working at multiple locations if they couldnt by a season ticket.

 

[33056]

If you worked at multiple sites/had multiple booking on locations during BR Eg you were a CSA for a block of stations did you get free travel from your primary site/base? Because it would have put rail staff at a disadvantage when working at multiple locations if they couldnt by a season ticket.

As a relief signalman under BR I had a residential pass to my home station and a green duty pass to get me around the area I covered.

 

[miami]

Shall you also remove the staff discounts the likes of employees of Tesco's or John Lewis get?
Or the free tickets British Airways and Virgin give their staff?
Or are you just going to pick on us railworkers?

If the culture is truely one of "I never charge anyone", then that to me smacks of time to remove the priviliege.

As I said up thread, Tesco give staff 50% off, if their staff en-mass started to steal from tesco, I'd expect such perks to be removed almost instantly.

To follow that a devil's advocate response..... If you worked for British Airways would you expect a discount from Virgin Atlantic? That's the equivalent here.

I would expect that a BA member of staff would have to buy hotline tickets (at vastly reduced fares), but as a IAG shareholder I would be demanding action if there was a culture of cabin crew letting their mates, not only in BA, or Virgin, but also the guy who works in Smiths at T5, or the girl in ATC, or the chap in Airbus, fly for free.

In isolated cases a few P45s, and perhaps legal action, would be appropriate. If it was a normal situation then removing such perks across the board could well be appropriate too. Give an inch and their take a mile.

 

[tommo1097]

So how do we newbies get a Priv card for the 75% off?

 

[bb21]

So how do we newbies get a Priv card for the 75% off?

After one month's service (six months for SouthEastern staff), you will be sent one automatically by RSTL, to your home address. You do not need to do anything.

 

[craigybagel]

You remember that mountain of paperwork you did in your induction day? Part of the info you submitted then gets you your Priv (and anyone else whose eligible for one through you).

 

[grumblingalong]

You remember that mountain of paperwork you did in your induction day? Get used to it.

You missed a bit.