Scotrail Class 385 Discussion

[Class 170101]

Assuming a long delay in introducing the 385s is the answer this:
Transfer the spare 365s to Greater Anglia but maintained at Hornsey. This releases 321s which go to Scotland as 3 cars, releasing 380s to cover. Simpler for Scotland and keeps the 365s where the expert staff are for maintenance.

Class 365s aren't cleared south of Broxbourne on West Anglia and have never been on the GE (except to Ilford Depot Bombardier Workshops) as far as I know.

The easiest thing might be to move the Class 387s to Scotland and put the Class 365s back in operation between Kings Cross and Cambridge / Kings Lynn / Peterborough assuming that a pair of Class 387s fit into Glasgow Queen Street.

 

[D365]

I am a lay person but I note that a Class 90 has visited Queen Street recently and wonder how this is possible in the absence of electro-magnetic testing that people seem to be saying is required before 365s can be brought in?

EMC testing is a Network Rail requirement, there's no getting around it. The Class 90s are DC motored, besides.

 

[gingertom]

Class 365s aren't cleared south of Broxbourne on West Anglia and have never been on the GE (except to Ilford Depot Bombardier Workshops) as far as I know.

The easiest thing might be to move the Class 387s to Scotland and put the Class 365s back in operation between Kings Cross and Cambridge / Kings Lynn / Peterborough assuming that a pair of Class 387s fit into Glasgow Queen Street.

I can't find any unit length info for the 387 so we can't say for certain if a pair would fit Glasgow Queen Street, but I do like the idea of 2250BHP per 4-car set and the 110mph top speed

 

[Domh245]

I can't find any unit length info for the 387 so we can't say for certain if a pair would fit Glasgow Queen Street, but I do like the idea of 2250BHP per 4-car set and the 110mph top speed

They're another nominal 20m unit like the 365s, so 80m for a 4 car, 160m for an 8 car.

 

[332 > 444]

In fact the 387 coaches are shorter than a 365: 80.77m vs 81.9m.

 

[gingertom]

They're another nominal 20m unit like the 365s, so 80m for a 4 car, 160m for an 8 car.

In fact the 387 coaches are shorter than a 365: 80.77m vs 81.9m.

so they will fit Glasgow Queen Street. But can they be maintained at any of the depots up here or is that what breaks any deal?

 

[d1672]

-I have heard that 10 class 365's are coming North and will be used on Ayrshire/Inverclyde services after appropriate training, thus releasing the required 380's for the E&G's.. There are a number of diagrams where a 4 car unit is required. My source also said that a further 5 class 365's could be available.

 

[D365]

My source also said that a further 5 class 365's could be available.

There's 21 units coming off-lease, so that's not a great secret.

 

[gingertom]

There's 21 units coming off-lease, so that's not a great secret.

right sort of quantity to be useful.

 

[170401]

-I have heard that 10 class 365's are coming North and will be used on Ayrshire/Inverclyde services after appropriate training, thus releasing the required 380's for the E&G's.. There are a number of diagrams where a 4 car unit is required. My source also said that a further 5 class 365's could be available.

They won't be used in Ayrshire as they do not have DOO equipment or SDO fitted.

 

[380101]

They won't be used in Ayrshire as they do not have DOO equipment or SDO fitted.

Technically we could use them on the Ayrshire lines as a 4 car. We would just revert to hanging out the window and/or stepping onto the platforms to check doors before departing. Lots of 4 or 3 car diagrams all day that we could use the 365s on to release 380s to the E-G.

 

[D365]

Is that a legal method of driver dispatch?

 

[170401]

Technically we could use them on the Ayrshire lines as a 4 car. We would just revert to hanging out the window and/or stepping onto the platforms to check doors before departing. Lots of 4 or 3 car diagrams all day that we could use the 365s on to release 380s to the E-G.

Not gonna be quite so popular when you replace a 7 with a 4 though in the peak times though.

 

[Domh245]

Not gonna be quite so popular when you replace a 7 with a 4 though in the peak times though.

But when the alternative is replacing 7 with nothing...

 

[SC318250]

There are 6 x 4 car 380 and 5 x 3 car 380 diagrams outwith North Berwick/Edinburgh, that are stand alone 4 car or 3 car operated throughout the day, that could be replaced by 365s on Ayrshire or Inverclyde

 

[380101]

Is that a legal method of driver dispatch?

Its the fall back procedure if the DOO cctv fails or if due to lighting conditions, so it must be.

 

[mcmad]

365s will be for the E&G, not Ayrshire

 

[LT3001]

Is that a legal method of driver dispatch?

Degraded dispatch, very much legal

 

[Starmill]

Not gonna be quite so popular when you replace a 7 with a 4 though in the peak times though.

There are a limited number of >4 car services. As others have pointed out, many diagrams are 3 car all day and these could be replaced happily with a 4 car 365.

I have no evidence that this is likely, of course. It seems to be just rumour for now.

 

[Starmill]

Its the fall back procedure if the DOO cctv fails or if due to lighting conditions, so it must be.

Degraded dispatch, very much legal

By definition, a degraded dispatch would not happen regularly.

There probably are locations where this is approved normally, but I would imagine that it would need to be risk assesed and approved at each new location where it were proposed, and may not pass.

 

[D365]

Is it acceptable as a primary dispatch method then, I wouldn’t have thought so.

 

[TEW]

Seems to be the normal dispatch method on many of the 314 operated routes in Scotland.

 

[hexagon789]

Seems to be the normal dispatch method on many of the 314 operated routes in Scotland.

Even at stations with monitors it always seems to be the done method with 314s.

 

[158722]

365s will be for the E&G, not Ayrshire

Which is what I've been told is being looked into - 15 units. At a guess, that would give 6 pairs to be diagrammed, leaving the other pair of E&G diagrams with 380s.

 

[Northhighland]

Which is what I've been told is being looked into - 15 units. At a guess, that would give 6 pairs to be diagrammed, leaving the other pair of E&G diagrams with 380s.

Awful lot of looking into and not much doing.

 

[Southsider]

Awful lot of looking into and not much doing.

Indeed. Scotrail’s reported target of the December timetable change seems less than challenging.

 

[mde]

Indeed. Scotrail’s reported target of the December timetable change seems less than challenging.

Perhaps a hint of realism though - May would have been better, but, these other units would need to be accepted by the maintenance staff first, otherwise, you are going to end up with a fleet that is unmaintainable and given the only TMDs with existing knowledge are down south, it'd be unsustainable to send the units down there for basic issues.

Of course, that could be complete wibble.

 

[Macwomble]

Indeed. Scotrail’s reported target of the December timetable change seems less than challenging.

Better to take time over things.....and get them right rather than rush and make a complete **** of it.

 

[Northhighland]

Better to take time over things.....and get them right rather than rush and make a complete **** of it.

Mmmm. Maybe this should apply to procurement as well?

 

[Southsider]

Better to take time over things.....and get them right rather than rush and make a complete **** of it.

So just let things slip? I get the feeling that's already the mantra for rail projects. A degree of urgency wouldn't go amiss, as I mentioned already we have very expensive (and late in completion) OLE being underutilised. No wonder Chris Grayling lost patience with the industry's inability to deliver; I'm beginning to come round to his way of thinking.