Scotrail Franchise - Abellio

[me123]

Personaly I feel customer service improved alot under First so I wouldn't want National Express.

Agreed. First have been pretty good on the whole and service is generally very good. You get a few numpties, but you get a few numpties everywhere.

Abellio's bid is certainly interesting, though. Im not a fan of 320s, but 321s will be nice as additional capacity. No idea where they'll work though. Would be interesting if North Berwick got them, and a definite downgrade for the rather vociferous passengers from East Lothian. Perhaps Lanark is more likely, now that they're going to be running limited stop to the High Level?

On that note, with rolling electrification, we will continue to have a surplus of DMUs. We could very well be thinking about transferring 158s down to England I would think? (156s still have their place on the WHL to consider).

HSTs to Aberdeen and Inverness will be great IF they're refurbished to a good standard. They need to feel like-new. 170s do a good job on the whole, but luggage capacity is always an issue on these trains and HSTs seem like the way forward. Getting Intercity style service will be a big boon for the routes as well. First class service needs to be more than a headrest, a cup of coffee and a newspaper, for example. The increased capacity offered by the HSTs (even though shortened) will be needed in due course and the line to Aberdeen in particular is always well used, even at times you'd think it should be quiet. I've seen plenty of people standing for 2+ hours regularly on Sunday mornings, for example. To that end, I hope the cheap advance fares are delayed until the additional capacity is brought in!

On the whole; looks good, hope that service levels are at least maintained though. As ever, nothing will happen overnight, but it's good to see a franchise with strong investment plans for Scotland's railways.

 

[Gadget88]

Seemingly they want to phase out paper tickets:

http://www.scotsman.com/news/transport/new-scotrail-operator-will-phase-out-paper-tickets-1-3610330

Like I say I am glad National Express never got it but Abellio may not be great either seemingly many of the profits will go to them too. Plus many say they will just refurnish existing trains for 4-5 years anyway.

They may bring prices down that's the main thing but I reckon First keeping it would have been better.

 

[ADRboy]

Looking like Rail powers being transferred to Scottish Parliament so public ownership could be on the cards at the end of current franchise.

 

[Simon11]

Seemingly they want to phase out paper tickets:

http://www.scotsman.com/news/transport/new-scotrail-operator-will-phase-out-paper-tickets-1-3610330

All bidders would have wanted to phase out paper tickets, however I'm not sure why it will take them 6 years to get up to 67% of passengers on smart?

 

[thealexweb]

My Scotrail smart card arrived yesterday and I am yet to use it. If my train is delayed how easy is it to claim travel vouchers without physical tickets?

 

[Gadget88]

All bidders would have wanted to phase out paper tickets, however I'm not sure why it will take them 6 years to get up to 67% of passengers on smart?

So what's the advantage of smart cards? Do more people in say London use Oyster over paper tickets?

 

[The Ham]

My Scotrail smart card arrived yesterday and I am yet to use it. If my train is delayed how easy is it to claim travel vouchers without physical tickets?

It is likely to result in no claiming and no travel vouchers. As (if others are anything to go on) that it would all happen automatically (as they'll know when you swiped in and swiped out so will know the likely train that you used).

Although it will result in more claims being paid out (especially if they shorten the delay before a claim is paid out on) they will likely save money in the long run by not needing staff to manually authorise and then issue claims (and the reduction in staff time required to issue tickets in the first place).

 

[Scotrail84]

Agreed. First have been pretty good on the whole and service is generally very good. You get a few numpties, but you get a few numpties everywhere.

Abellio's bid is certainly interesting, though. Im not a fan of 320s, but 321s will be nice as additional capacity. No idea where they'll work though. Would be interesting if North Berwick got them, and a definite downgrade for the rather vociferous passengers from East Lothian. Perhaps Lanark is more likely, now that they're going to be running limited stop to the High Level?

On that note, with rolling electrification, we will continue to have a surplus of DMUs. We could very well be thinking about transferring 158s down to England I would think? (156s still have their place on the WHL to consider).

HSTs to Aberdeen and Inverness will be great IF they're refurbished to a good standard. They need to feel like-new. 170s do a good job on the whole, but luggage capacity is always an issue on these trains and HSTs seem like the way forward. Getting Intercity style service will be a big boon for the routes as well. First class service needs to be more than a headrest, a cup of coffee and a newspaper, for example. The increased capacity offered by the HSTs (even though shortened) will be needed in due course and the line to Aberdeen in particular is always well used, even at times you'd think it should be quiet. I've seen plenty of people standing for 2+ hours regularly on Sunday mornings, for example. To that end, I hope the cheap advance fares are delayed until the additional capacity is brought in!

On the whole; looks good, hope that service levels are at least maintained though. As ever, nothing will happen overnight, but it's good to see a franchise with strong investment plans for Scotland's railways.

170s will eventually work the WHL.

Turbos are crap for Aberdeen and Inverness runs. Horrendous overcrowding especially on fridays. Need at least a five car on Aberdeens and Inverness. How many coaches will the hsts have?

If all this wiring goes up then there's plenty of spare dmu lying about. I'd make the turbos into 4 and 5 car sets using the MOS centre cars.

 

[Brian Aylott]

On that note, with rolling electrification, we will continue to have a surplus of DMUs. We could very well be thinking about transferring 158s down to England I would think? (156s still have their place on the WHL to consider).

156s on the WHL in future? - why, when 158s are going to work the services
Are the 156s going to be stored on the WHL then?
Brian

 

[Ground Frame]

170s will eventually work the WHL.

What makes you say that?

 

[SpacePhoenix]

If all this wiring goes up then there's plenty of spare dmu lying about. I'd make the turbos into 4 and 5 car sets using the MOS centre cars.

Given the nationwide shortage of DMUs any sets freed up by the wiring would more then likely be already spoken for

 

[Scotrail84]

170s will eventually work the WHL.

What makes you say that?

Because they can fit the required retb units in the cabs where the mitrac screens should be. Already been discussed.

 

[Ground Frame]

Because they can fit the required retb units in the cabs where the mitrac screens should be. Already been discussed.

Can't see it ever happening. Refurbished 158s for the foreseeable future

 

[northwichcat]

170s will eventually work the WHL.

Will they? What DMUs will Abellio release then? The numbers they provided in the franchise agreement seem to suggest they'll release all their 170s by the end of 2018 as a result of electrification and receiving HSTs from FGW. They've also made reference to both 156s and 158s remaining. So it has to be either all the 170s released, or a mixture of Sprinters and 170s released, with all the 170s going seeming the most probable.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Well the 170s woant be missed by me however I wonder how dwell times on Fife Circle and Dundee and Perth Semi Fasts will do with the door layout of 158s? Yes I know they used to and often still do work these turns however the 170s do a lot more of them and although they have there faults are able to swallow a platform of pax at a station like Markinch far quicker than a 158.

 

[Scotrail84]

Well the 170s woant be missed by me however I wonder how dwell times on Fife Circle and Dundee and Perth Semi Fasts will do with the door layout of 158s? Yes I know they used to and often still do work these turns however the 170s do a lot more of them and although they have there faults are able to swallow a platform of pax at a station like Markinch far quicker than a 158.

Perth semi fasts are almost exclusively operated by 158s the only exception I can think of is the 06:33 from edinburgh and the 22:43 perth - edinburgh whic are both diagramed for 170 traction.

Inverness services are usually 170s bar the 1036 from edinburgh

 

[Blindtraveler]

Yes its nice to have the luxury of that 4 car 158 on the 10.36, far better for the route than a 170 any day! it would be nice to see 170s on the wHL and GSW, Although I wonder how they would cope on the former? The latter could give a 5 minute decrease in journey times on the Carlisle services I would have thought?

 

[Class 170101]

170s are unlikely to decrease journey times due to their poorer acceleration over 158s, unless there are any significant stretches between 90 and 100mph

 

[Blindtraveler]

Gretna Junction to Carlisle is on the WCML. Unsure how much of the rest of line could be run at 75 plus?

 

[CallySleeper]

Because they can fit the required retb units in the cabs where the mitrac screens should be. Already been discussed.

Ok, what about route clearance? 158s and 170s are banned from the WHL. And what about the pointless higher top speed?

 

[59CosG95]

Ok, what about route clearance? 158s and 170s are banned from the WHL. And what about the pointless higher top speed?

Surely 158s are planned TO be cleared as part of the "Scenic" initiative?

 

[swt_passenger]

I'd say so. The word 'banned' is regularly used in these forums, but it has also been regularly explained that NR only clear stock when needed. Lack of an entry in sectional appendices etc is not a 'ban', it just means the stock is not yet cleared.

 

[Chrism20]

I'm assuming the issue is the plug doors similar to the GSW. Does anyone know how many stations would be affected, I'm guessing some of them will be ok and that modifications will be needed at the remainder.

 

[TheEdge]

I'd say so. The word 'banned' is regularly used in these forums, but it has also been regularly explained that NR only clear stock when needed. Lack of an entry in sectional appendices etc is not a 'ban', it just means the stock is not yet cleared.

I'm sure I've heard the WHL "ban" of 158s and 170s is actually based on clearance issues with platforms and the plug doors hence the use of 156s with sliding doors.

 

[CallySleeper]

I'd say so. The word 'banned' is regularly used in these forums, but it has also been regularly explained that NR only clear stock when needed. Lack of an entry in sectional appendices etc is not a 'ban', it just means the stock is not yet cleared.

The official term used is 'prohibited', call it what you will. "Vehicles requiring to operate will require specific approval in accordance with the appropriate industry standards."

 

[WatcherZero]

Essentially yes, rather than permission having been actively refused its never been sought in the first place.

 

[northwichcat]

Looking back it seems ASLEF and the SNP wanted the 170s off certain Scotrail routes:

SCOTRAIL drivers are shunning their own trains because they are too cramped and uncomfortable.

Members of the drivers’ union Aslef have chosen to travel by intercity train to a conference in Inverness next month because they say ScotRail’s trains are not good for longer journeys.

The delegation to the STUC annual congress will make the 180-mile trip from Edinburgh via Stirling in a 35-year-old East Coast train – Scotland’s oldest – rather than ScotRail’s more modern rolling stock. Kevin Lindsay, Aslef’s Scottish secretary, said he had booked seats for the three-and-a-half hour journey with East Coast because its trains were more comfortable.

He described ScotRail’s class 170 Turbostar trains, used on routes between the central belt and Inverness and Aberdeen, as more suited to commuter journeys.

“I know they are not comfortable, to the point that we have got a conference in Inverness in a couple of weeks’ time and we have already booked seats on the East Coast train. That’s train drivers choosing to go that way. I think that speaks volumes.”

The drivers’ decision follows criticism from SNP backbench MSP Maureen Watt, who described the ScotRail carriages as “horrible”.

Among the complaints most often levelled at ScotRail trains are lack of leg room, badly designed seats, limited luggage space, and cramped toilets.

The operator’s Turbostar carriages also have their engines underneath, which critics say make them noisier, less spacious and less comfortable. By contrast the locomotive-hauled high-speed trains, operated by East Coast, which have been running on the Inverness and Aberdeen to London route since the 70s, offer a smoother, quieter journey in roomier carriages, passengers claim.

Lindsay called for new ScotRail trains suitable for longer journeys, which make passenger comfort a priority.

He said the problem was caused by ScotRail using the same type of train on a variety of routes, and added: “It’s more of a commuter sort of train ScotRail are running to Aberdeen, and as such it’s not as popular.

Watt, convener of Holyrood’s infrastructure committee and MSP for Aberdeen South and North Kincardine, said: “Why can’t we be urging ScotRail to say, ‘Actually from Aberdeen and Inverness to Edinburgh and/or Glasgow it has to be a different type of train that’s more comfortable and more suitable for a longer journey.’ Because, quite frankly, the type of carriages they’re running at the moment are horrible.”

Lindsay, who was giving evidence to the committee on the next ScotRail franchise from 2014, said its trains on the Glasgow-Mallaig line, voted one of the most scenic rail journeys in the world, were even worse. “The West Highland line is one of the most beautiful you are ever going to take in Scotland and it’s one of the most uncomfortable,” he said.

A ScotRail spokesman said Lindsay’s comments were disappointing because “he is fully aware we deliver a contracted service which requires the company to maintain the specified fleet of rolling stock.

“Any changes to the contracted service, including rolling stock, must be decided by Scottish ministers.”

The Scottish Government acknowledged in its consultation on the new franchise that the trains “are not perceived by some passengers as appropriate for these longer journeys”.

It stated: “We are currently considering what options there could be for improving this situation, and will be looking for bidders for the next franchise to put forward some solutions.”

http://www.scotsman.com/news/transp...ramped-and-uncomfortable-conditions-1-2195176

 

[Rhydgaled]

Looking back it seems ASLEF and the SNP wanted the 170s off certain Scotrail routes:



http://www.scotsman.com/news/transp...ramped-and-uncomfortable-conditions-1-2195176

Wow. Those regulars on here who take note of who says what know that I strongly object to stock such as the 170s, with wide 1/3, 2/3 doors, being used on long-distance (semi)fast services, but I dread to think what language they would use to describe 150s and Pacers if they call a 170 'horrible'.

 

[Chrism20]

Interesting that the post notes that they will make the journey in a thirty five year old East Coast train - Scotland's oldest

These being the same model that will replace the 170s.

I think it's great that comfier rolling stock is being sourced but if these are not really reliable I have a feeling the public will eat Abellio and the Government alive for allowing it

 

[Carlisle]

I think it's great that comfier rolling stock is being sourced but if these are not really reliable I have a feeling the public will eat Abellio and the Government alive for allowing it

I agree, over the years I've been on quite a few HSTs with only one working power car that has added quite a bit to overall journey time