ScotRail HST Introduction - Updates & Discussion

[InOban]

Looking at previous posts, I think that the last delivery was No 16.

 

[hexagon789]

Looking at previous posts, I think that the last delivery was No 16.

Yes, on the 5th

 

[DannyMich2018]

A pair of Power Cars ran south two weeks ago so set no 17 should be going north any day now.

 

[fgwrich]

Unfortunately the withdrawn "classic" set stored at Slateford (HA33) has already become a victim of the graffiti "artists" with two of the 4 Mk3s tagged (42289 / 44037). A small saving grace is that these are being used for spares recovery at least.

 

[scotraildriver]

Unfortunately the withdrawn "classic" set stored at Slateford (HA33) has already become a victim of the graffiti "artists" with two of the 4 Mk3s tagged (42289 / 44037). A small saving grace is that these are being used for spares recovery at least.

Does this set still have power cars attached to it?

 

[fgwrich]

Does this set still have power cars attached to it?

It does, 43177 & 139 are still attached to it at Slateford. Luckily, I believe the power cars are unaffected.

 

[InOban]

Delivery path on Friday

 

[computerSaysNo]

Does this set still have power cars attached to it?

It does, 43177 & 139 are still attached to it at Slateford. Luckily, I believe the power cars are unaffected.

Are the power cars still running, to avoid the engine hours penalty you get when you cold start them?

 

[PG]

Are the power cars still running, to avoid the engine hours penalty you get when you cold start them?

If they are then they'll have to take a trip to Haymarket every now and then to refuel.

 

[Goldromans]

Delivery path on Friday

Realtime Trains - 564C 1321 Doncaster Works Wabtec to Haymarket Depot

Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[InOban]

Realtime Trains - 564C 1321 Doncaster Works Wabtec to Haymarket Depot

Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

That's how I knew! I assumed that everyone on this forum used RTT regularly..

 

[Brissle Girl]

That's how I knew! I assumed that everyone on this forum used RTT regularly..

If you signpost a delivery path, it’s helpful to attach the details, so others who are interested don’t have to trawl through looking for it. So Goldromans was very helpfully providing it for us prior to it running, for which many thanks.

 

[Paul Kerr]

I saw posted on scot-rail.co.uk that the 17th refurb set is coming north tomorrow. Consist is reported as:

HA 07 40607[41136],42207,42574,42288

 

[InOban]

As with the last delivery, it's scheduled as a 125 service, probably the last time the power cars will exceed 100mph.

 

[Stathern Jc]

As with the last delivery, it's scheduled as a 125 service, probably the last time the power cars will exceed 100mph.

There are probably significant wider issues which may have been covered earlier. But on the face of it the 100mph limitation does look like a missed opportunity to have some scope for recovery in places (given necessary attention to track etc, which wouldn't have been economical for just a handful of LNER services), even if not built in to timings.

 

[hexagon789]

As with the last delivery, it's scheduled as a 125 service, probably the last time the power cars will exceed 100mph.

Is all the servicing done in Scotland then? Nothing for them to head back south at all for?

 

[hexagon789]

There are probably significant wider issues which may have been covered earlier. But on the face of it the 100mph limitation does look like a missed opportunity to have some scope for recovery in places (given necessary attention to track etc, which wouldn't have been economical for just a handful of LNER services), even if not built in to timings.

I think 125 would be difficult without significant infrastructure improvements, even 110 would be pushing it I think from what I recall of many of the signal spacings.

 

[Stathern Jc]

Was wondering if there might be some suitable spots where 110 could be considered, anything further likely to be an overambitious thought. I'm not up to date with the coverage of the latest signalling, or what is installed from scratch when moving to the centralised control centres or what is possible when that's done. Maybe some scope in places such as the faster stretch between Aviemore and Kingussie? Seem to be reasonable lengths of sections there.

 

[DB]

Is all the servicing done in Scotland then? Nothing for them to head back south at all for?

And do they have full facilities in Scotland for everthing up to engine changes? If not, it seems likely that there will be trips back south in the future.

 

[hexagon789]

Was wondering if there might be some suitable spots where 110 could be considered, anything further likely to be an overambitious thought. I'm not up to date with the coverage of the latest signalling, or what is installed from scratch when moving to the centralised control centres or what is possible when that's done. Maybe some scope in places such as the faster stretch between Aviemore and Kingussie? Seem to be reasonable lengths of sections there.

Iirc the 100 section north of Kingussie is only 3.5mi I believe even the HSTs can only just about touch that before having to break so that wouldn't be worthwhile increasing to 110 unless you could make the overall section longer.

 

[hexagon789]

And do they have full facilities in Scotland for everthing up to engine changes? If not, it seems likely that there will be trips back south in the future.

That's exactly what I was thinking - the really heavy stuff such as engine swaps

 

[Brissle Girl]

Was wondering if there might be some suitable spots where 110 could be considered, anything further likely to be an overambitious thought. I'm not up to date with the coverage of the latest signalling, or what is installed from scratch when moving to the centralised control centres or what is possible when that's done. Maybe some scope in places such as the faster stretch between Aviemore and Kingussie? Seem to be reasonable lengths of sections there.

Just remember that 110mph saves a massive 3.3 seconds per mile over 100mph. So if there is any additional cost other than replacing the middle digit with a 1 on the line speed board then it's going to take a lot to justify it, for the lengths we are talking about. And don't forget that from the time the driver passes the board, he has to accelerate up to 110 before even that benefit starts kicking in.

 

[hexagon789]

Just remember that 110mph saves a massive 3.3 seconds per mile over 100mph. So if there is any additional cost other than replacing the middle digit with a 1 on the line speed board then it's going to take a lot to justify it, for the lengths we are talking about. And don't forget that from the time the driver passes the board, he has to accelerate up to 110 before even that benefit starts kicking in.

Perhaps looking at how much time was saved when the MML went from 100 to 110 in the early 1990s. Some of those 110 sections seemed relatively short (though not as little as 3.5mi).

 

[scotraildriver]

That's exactly what I was thinking - the really heavy stuff such as engine swaps

Haymarket depot does everything on the HSTs including engine changes. A new crane was installed for that very purpose.

 

[Brissle Girl]

According to Wikipedia (which is also my recollection), 110mph was introduced with the introduction of HST's in 1983, and was from 90mph, which gives a more creditable 7.3 seconds per mile. Still, without digressing onto that route, the maths says that its 3.3 seconds per mile, so any saving is unlikely to be of any consequence on the Highland line.

 

[43096]

That's exactly what I was thinking - the really heavy stuff such as engine swaps

Craigentinny is in Scotland but suspect Hitachi aren’t interested!

 

[InOban]

Left 20 early according to RTT.

 

[Goldromans]

According to Wikipedia (which is also my recollection), 110mph was introduced with the introduction of HST's in 1983, and was from 90mph, which gives a more creditable 7.3 seconds per mile. Still, without digressing onto that route, the maths says that its 3.3 seconds per mile, so any saving is unlikely to be of any consequence on the Highland line.

I think an increase in the speeds right across the HML would be more beneficial than focusing on just one stretch. Surely there's places which can be increased to 90/100mph?

 

[fgwrich]

Craigentinny is in Scotland but suspect Hitachi aren’t interested!

Unless it’s born from them of course, then indeed. They certainly don’t seem as interested in looking after something not made by them at all.

 

[hexagon789]

Haymarket depot does everything on the HSTs including engine changes. A new crane was installed for that very purpose.View attachment 78636

Thanks, so no real reason for them to go south while still in traffic

According to Wikipedia (which is also my recollection), 110mph was introduced with the introduction of HST's in 1983, and was from 90mph, which gives a more creditable 7.3 seconds per mile. Still, without digressing onto that route, the maths says that its 3.3 seconds per mile, so any saving is unlikely to be of any consequence on the Highland line.

The MML went from 90 to 100 first (4 sections of 100mph running were authorised initially), then later to 110 from the early 1990s.

Craigentinny is in Scotland but suspect Hitachi aren’t interested!

What's that to do with HST engine swaps? Genuine question or is that related to how the 80x are maintained?