ScotRail HST Introduction - Updates & Discussion

[43 302]

He didn’t specify. I would assume 7 would be in there but just have to wait and see I suppose. https://twitter.com/alexhynes/status/1267930376334389249?s=21

Ah. Thanks for the link. I personally think Inter7City is a bit clumsy to say and would prefer a simple "ScotRail InterCity".

 

[Goldromans]

Ah. Thanks for the link. I personally think Inter7City is a bit clumsy to say and would prefer a simple "ScotRail InterCity".

I agree, however I don’t think ScotRail would want a discrepancy in the brand name.

 

[43 302]

I agree, however I don’t think ScotRail would want a discrepancy in the brand name.

Indeed, likely not.

 

[DannyMich2018]

Wabtec have certainly upped their game since the start of the year, with a delivery every three weeks or so.

They certainly have. So far I believe 7 sets have been delivered this year. A pair of PCs went south on 22 May as well so set 18 could be heading north very soon. Rather ironically for Scotrail they have plenty of HSTs now but not many needed due to reduced timetable, opposite of last year! also last sets for GWR and XC been done now so maybe even speed up more now.

 

[43 302]

They certainly have. So far I believe 7 sets have been delivered this year. A pair of PCs went south on 22 May as well so set 18 could be heading north very soon. Rather ironically for Scotrail they have plenty of HSTs now but not many needed due to reduced timetable, opposite of last year! also last sets for GWR and XC been done now so maybe even speed up more now.

There's still five more coaches for XC to be done at Wabtec.

 

[DannyMich2018]

There's still five more coaches for XC to be done at Wabtec.

Yes, these are spare but might have gone back by road so could have been missed but in the main Wabtec just concentrating on the Scotrail ones which look likely to have most of the 26 by end of this year (in 4-car anyway)

 

[hexagon789]

Alex Hynes has confirmed they’re working on labelling the HST services as ScotRail InterCity on departure boards, now that the classics have been withdrawn.

A welcome move, I'm sure even some non-enthusiast customers will appreciate being able to choose a "better" train when this is all over

 

[43 302]

Yes, these are spare but might have gone back by road so could have been missed but in the main Wabtec just concentrating on the Scotrail ones which look likely to have most of the 26 by end of this year (in 4-car anyway)

Is there anything confirmed about lengthening some/all to five coaches? And would this be a TGS or another TS as they already have a guards compartment now.

 

[Goldromans]

Is there anything confirmed about lengthening some/all to five coaches? And would this be a TGS or another TS as they already have a guards compartment now.

I believe all we know for sure at the moment is that once all 4-car sets are delivered, 17 of these will be extended to 5 coaches. Maybe someone in the know has more information on what have been confirmed (ie using TGS, all extended to 5 coaches)?

 

[DB]

A number of TGSs were reported as being taken to Doncaster a few months ago, which might suggest TGS - the bike space would be useful, and it would be cheaper as there would only be two power doors to fit, as opposed to four in a TS.

 

[Brissle Girl]

A minor disadvantage of the TGS is that dwell times can be increased, as twice as many passengers need to exit from the set of doors. It may not be much of an issue on Scottish services though, though it used to be noticeable on GWR services in the peak.

 

[fgwrich]

A minor disadvantage of the TGS is that dwell times can be increased, as twice as many passengers need to exit from the set of doors. It may not be much of an issue on Scottish services though, though it used to be noticeable on GWR services in the peak.

But a small price to pay in the grand scheme of things, as the TGS will allow them to use the van space for Bicycles / Ski's and other associated luggage that can and will otherwise clog up the luggage and cycle spaces in the TS's. However, I am starting to wonder if the TGS's will be used considering the number of Angel TGS that have gone to Newport, Eastleigh and Rotherham of late. Hopefully, of the 38 Angel TGSs with FGW, there will be enough left.

 

[43096]

But a small price to pay in the grand scheme of things, as the TGS will allow them to use the van space for Bicycles / Ski's and other associated luggage that can and will otherwise clog up the luggage and cycle spaces in the TS's. However, I am starting to wonder if the TGS's will be used considering the number of Angel TGS that have gone to Newport, Eastleigh and Rotherham of late. Hopefully, of the 38 Angel TGSs with FGW, there will be enough left.

By my reckoning there are 29 Angel TGS with GWR interior left, not spoken for. That excludes those gone for disposal (including one to Eastleigh today). Take three out of that for possible extra 2+4 sets for GWR and you have 26 left - same as the number of sets for ScotRail. Five are at Doncaster, apparently for parts recovery(?) - so the TGS boat may have sailed already.

 

[Goldromans]

Could the 5th TS coaches be fitted with two more bike spaces? Or is the space already spoken for?

 

[fgwrich]

By my reckoning there are 29 Angel TGS with GWR interior left, not spoken for. That excludes those gone for disposal (including one to Eastleigh today). Take three out of that for possible extra 2+4 sets for GWR and you have 26 left - same as the number of sets for ScotRail. Five are at Doncaster, apparently for parts recovery(?) - so the TGS boat may have sailed already.

Thanks for confirming it, you've saved me that job! We can only hope then that the 5 at Doncaster are being converted, otherwise the extra vehicle's won't be TGS's. I really do feel ScotRail are missing a trick here - you only have to see the amount of luggage carried on the LNER Services to see how versatile the van space can be, more so in Winter & late Spring when Ski season starts in the Cairngorms.

 

[43096]

Could the 5th TS coaches be fitted with two more bike spaces? Or is the space already spoken for?

There is a question that I haven't seen answered - what exactly is in the toilet that is taken out of use and not fitted with retention tanks? If that had been convertible to bike spaces they could have saved a whole load of bother with different vehicle types and had both more bike spaces and more toilets on the train.

 

[Clansman]

There is a question that I haven't seen answered - what exactly is in the toilet that is taken out of use and not fitted with retention tanks? If that had been convertible to bike spaces they could have saved a whole load of bother with different vehicle types and had both more bike spaces and more toilets on the train.

The only thing that has made me think of the TGS situation is that there is already a dedicated gaurds compartment on the refurb sets between the buffet and first class, as well as ScotRail's desire to shorten dwell times and improve accessibility. So in terms of the most cost effective refurb, the best accessibility for passengers with bikes, and making the most of the space - a TS with the toilets and luggage racked stripped out with a 156 style compartment (holding say 6 bikes) that's fully acccessible and with a public use door; perhaps sounds more attractive than a TGS in it's own right.

 

[scotraildriver]

1 of the unused toilets is fot the catering trolley, the other is the comms cupboard housing the WiFi equipment and lots of other gubbins. The set undergoing overhaul at Inverness is having a second bike space added, not sure of it's exact location.

 

[nat67]

There is a question that I haven't seen answered - what exactly is in the toilet that is taken out of use and not fitted with retention tanks? If that had been convertible to bike spaces they could have saved a whole load of bother with different vehicle types and had both more bike spaces and more toilets on the train.

Could they not use the power car luggage space for bikes?

 

[Goldromans]

Does anyone else thing not including electronic seat reservations was a missed opportunity? LNER added them to their HST’s so the capability is certainly there.

 

[David M]

Does anyone else thing not including electronic seat reservations was a missed opportunity? LNER added them to their HST’s so the capability is certainly there.

In my experience, many people don't notice the electronic version as they aren't looking up the way. Paper reservations work better in my view.

 

[Clansman]

Could they not use the power car luggage space for bikes?

Power cars would need to be accessed by a staff member, and this isn't suited to guards as it prolongs dwell times. Hence why they are only accessible for bikes at termini - though would really have benefitted being available at staffed stations. That, or a more extensive refurbishment for power cars to make the rear comparment accessible to the public via the Mk3 behind.

 

[Fuzzytop]

Does anyone else thing not including electronic seat reservations was a missed opportunity? LNER added them to their HST’s so the capability is certainly there.

I'm with you on that - LNER's electronic reservations are far from perfect but I like them. Judging by the speed with which they went up on the LNER sets, I suppose similar units would be fairly easy to retrofit at a later date.

 

[Scotrail88]

I'm with you on that - LNER's electronic reservations are far from perfect but I like them. Judging by the speed with which they went up on the LNER sets, I suppose similar units would be fairly easy to retrofit at a later date.

You would think that anything to speed up turnaround times would be welcomed. It can take an eternity for an Aberdeen to be ready for boarding at Queen Street. That’s if reservations are actually shown and not withdrawn

 

[DB]

In my experience, many people don't notice the electronic version as they aren't looking up the way. Paper reservations work better in my view.

I agree, and the electronic ones fail to work quite regularly.

Plus they encourage train operators to do stupid things like allow reservations to be placed while the train is on its journey.

 

[nat67]

I'm with you on that - LNER's electronic reservations are far from perfect but I like them. Judging by the speed with which they went up on the LNER sets, I suppose similar units would be fairly easy to retrofit at a later date.

Half the time they don't work though. Paper is just easier as you know it is there unless someone moved it or a set swap.

 

[43096]

That, or a more extensive refurbishment for power cars to make the rear comparment accessible to the public via the Mk3 behind.

You don't really want the public in there unsupervised given the amount of technical kit in there.

 

[Clansman]

You don't really want the public in there unsupervised given the amount of technical kit in there.

Hence why I said 'more extensive refurbishment' if it was even possible. How you'd do it would be a different story!

 

[43096]

Hence why I said 'more extensive refurbishment' if it was even possible. How you'd do it would be a different story!

Certainly no space for the Inergen tanks in the engine room or clean air! Not sure you'd find room for the MDEC box either? OTMR should be possible (the Arrowvale version is in the clean air) and parking brake kit is in the clean air for the later batches (43153-198), so could be done.

 

[fgwrich]

In my experience, many people don't notice the electronic version as they aren't looking up the way. Paper reservations work better in my view.

Does ScotRail accept reservations on the I7Cs at all?