ScotRail HST Introduction - Updates & Discussion

[Clansman]

Does ScotRail accept reservations on the I7Cs at all?

Not at the moment IIRC as there was too much and still is to a certain extent, an unpredictability over what stock works what service right up until the last minute. Mostly due to the issues re Classic HSTs and the unreliability of both Classics and Refurbs when they were first introduced.

It was often the case that a classic HST or Refurb with reservations was getting subbed for 158s and 170s on an adhoc basis when things went pear shaped, so passengers were feeling entitled to a seat on the subbed unit/set that never existed and thus couldn't be enforced. Lot of confusion, lot of full and standings, and a lot of complaints. If anybody remembers late 2018 early 2019, this was the norm for a good couple of months.

Going forward when there's enough stability, they will reintroduce reservations, as per the situation pre HST.

 

[fgwrich]

Not at the moment IIRC as there was too much and still is to a certain extent, an unpredictability over what stock works what service right up until the last minute. Mostly due to the issues re Classic HSTs and the unreliability of both Classics and Refurbs when they were first introduced.

It was often the case that a classic HST or Refurb with reservations was getting subbed for 158s and 170s on an adhoc basis when things went pear shaped, so passengers were feeling entitled to a seat on the subbed unit/set that never existed and thus couldn't be enforced. Lot of confusion, lot of full and standings, and a lot of complaints. If anybody remembers late 2018 early 2019, this was the norm for a good couple of months.

Going forward when there's enough stability, they will reintroduce reservations, as per the situation pre HST.

That's fair enough, hopefully once the full I7C fleet will be up and running, the reservation system can be re-introduced. I personally feel sticking with the paper system for this would be better, rather than going full electronic like VTEC / LNER, but we shall see. Let's get the fleet up and running first.

 

[northernbelle]

What's the current estimate for having the full fleet into use?

We're now 13 months beyond the original plan for the full fleet being into use.

 

[Steven_G]

What's the current estimate for having the full fleet into use?

We're now 13 months beyond the original plan for the full fleet being into use.

if you work on 3 week intervals between deliveries and there are 8 left.....24 weeks. It would suggest end of the year

 

[Scotrail88]

As a side to the HSTs (sorry if not allowed) but with each additional HST that arrives, do we see an increase in capacity on other services as the 158s & 170s are released.

Has all the 158s & 170s that are due to leave now left ScotRail?

 

[59CosG95]

As a side to the HSTs (sorry if not allowed) but with each additional HST that arrives, do we see an increase in capacity on other services as the 158s & 170s are released.

Has all the 158s & 170s that are due to leave now left ScotRail?

The 158s have all left, yes. Only 2 (IIRC) 170s remain to leave for EMR.

 

[route101]

That's fair enough, hopefully once the full I7C fleet will be up and running, the reservation system can be re-introduced. I personally feel sticking with the paper system for this would be better, rather than going full electronic like VTEC / LNER, but we shall see. Let's get the fleet up and running first.

I thought Scotrail was going towards a counted place system . I do notice they tend to put all the seat reservations in one coach.

 

[DB]

The first GWR set in green (the one used for the launch of the new brand, and so far as I'm aware the only standard-class carriages to get the new colour scheme inside as well as outside) all moved away from GWR when the full-length sets stopped, and some went to Scotrail, initially as a slam-door set but some later had another interior refurbishment into their colours and power-door fitment. The set was: 44040, 42301, 42299, 42351, 42579, 42300, 40715, 41146.

Vehicles 42300, 42299 and 41146 (now 40621) are in set HA21. Can anyone confirm the whereabouts of the others? Are any of the other TSs remainng with Scotrail long-term?

Thanks

 

[fgwrich]

The first GWR set in green (the one used for the launch of the new brand, and so far as I'm aware the only standard-class carriages to get the new colour scheme inside as well as outside) all moved away from GWR when the full-length sets stopped, and some went to Scotrail, initially as a slam-door set but some later had another interior refurbishment into their colours and power-door fitment. The set was: 44040, 42301, 42299, 42351, 42579, 42300, 40715, 41146.

Vehicles 42300, 42299 and 41146 (now 40621) are in set HA21. Can anyone confirm the whereabouts of the others? Are any of the other TSs remainng with Scotrail long-term?

Thanks

Ah, the dreaded LA16. 42351 is now in Wabtec Doncaster having arrived up as part of a rake last Friday afternoon.

 

[CC 72100]

Ah, the dreaded LA16. 42351 is now in Wabtec Doncaster having arrived up as part of a rake last Friday afternoon.

The set that received the green interior was LA15. One of the first rakes to go off lease.

 

[fgwrich]

The set that received the green interior was LA15. One of the first rakes to go off lease.

Ah, thank you. LA 15/16 were easily confused as they both went green around the same time.

40715 I believe is still in Ely. I cant work out if 44040 is either in Ely or Doncaster I'm afraid. @43096 May have more of an idea?

 

[DB]

The set that received the green interior was LA15. One of the first rakes to go off lease.

Yes, it was LA15. From what I recall LA16 was repainted shortly afterwards, but didn't have the interior done. Many further carriages were done subsequently, and all of the first class sections had recently been refurbished in the new colours anyway, but so far as I know all other standard class slam-door carriages (and the standard half of composites) remained blue until the end.

Those coaches remaining with GWR and fitted with sliding doors received green interiors at the same time as the doors were done - the same as LA15 apart from the seat covers being (sensibly) made of moquette rather than the flat fabric used in LA15.

 

[43096]

Ah, the dreaded LA16. 42351 is now in Wabtec Doncaster having arrived up as part of a rake last Friday afternoon.

Of the others in LA 15 not so far mentioned:
40715 - stored at Ely
42301 - in Scotland (I believe), awaiting call to works for conversion for ScotRail
42351 - Doncaster, but not on lease. Parts or something else?
42579 - at Wabtec for conversion for ScotRail
44040 - Doncaster. Parts or something else?

 

[47271]

I thought Scotrail was going towards a counted place system . I do notice they tend to put all the seat reservations in one coach.

It's less counted place as no reservations whatsoever, or at least it was when I stopped travel in late March.

I think the counted place idea might have come from them saying that there would always be space for everyone regardless of whether reservations are in place. True enough now, you can have the whole coach to yourself, but at the time a bit of a laugh.

 

[northernbelle]

Ah, thank you. LA 15/16 were easily confused as they both went green around the same time.

LA15 entered traffic in green on the launch day of the GWR rebrand on 20th September 2015.
LA16 returned to Laira from Kilmarnock in green on 18th June 2016

 

[route101]

It's less counted place as no reservations whatsoever, or at least it was when I stopped travel in late March.

I think the counted place idea might have come from them saying that there would always be space for everyone regardless of whether reservations are in place. True enough now, you can have the whole coach to yourself, but at the time a bit of a laugh.

Yeah there was a spell of no reservations . I think the seat reservations should be only if you want one, eg elderly , joining en route. From origin i prefer getting on early and you can get a seat .

 

[ER158715]

42301 is at Doncaster and due to be part of HA11

 

[Steven_G]

Who are the drivers for these? Power cars down there for a week or so before driving north so can’t imagine same drivers hanging about.

 

[Carntyne]

ROG

 

[43096]

42301 is at Doncaster and due to be part of HA11

Thanks! Do you know when it moved to Doncaster?

 

[ER158715]

Thanks! Do you know when it moved to Doncaster?

Sorry, I don’t. I’m just working from a list of formations I was given.

 

[Drumtochty]

Just looking at the set deliveries over the last 5 sets and they are taking nearer 26 days to complete between sets.


It was less before that in January and February 2020.

Using 26 days per set and adding 10 days for the Xmas and New Year break that suggest the last 4 car set arrives mid-January 2021.

The 19 missing cars for the 5 car sets will we assume be delivered on the same 26 day 4 car basis basis. Therefore, it would be late May 2021 to get these cars to Scotland.

If the remaining 9 off 4 car sets are made into 5 car sets, that would stretch the project completion until mid July 2021.

Let's hope the timescale can be reduced.

 

[PG]

Just looking at the set deliveries over the last 5 sets and they are taking nearer 26 days to complete between sets.


It was less before that in January and February 2020.

Might this be related to recent events (covid-19) causing the delay as staff may have had to adjust their way of working?

If so then there is hope that at some future point the rate of production can be increased.

 

[InOban]

I was surprised but pleased that they were still delivering any sets during lockdown.

 

[Drumtochty]

Yes, talking to some tradesmen who have been working in other industries over the current period. It is the widget manufacturer who has produced these parts for the last 20 years who is on furlow that is holding up say 200 completed assemblies leaving the factory that was never an issue in the past. Similarly a company that had a specialist process that finishes certain component are producing a similar brick wall to delivery or a longer waiting period for parts.

 

[Killingworth]

Yes, talking to some tradesmen who have been working in other industries over the current period. It is the widget manufacturer who has produced these parts for the last 20 years who is on furlow that is holding up say 200 completed assemblies leaving the factory that was never an issue in the past. Similarly a company that had a specialist process that finishes certain component are producing a similar brick wall to delivery or a longer waiting period for parts.

I'm reminded of the childhood poem of how the kingdom was lost all for the sake of a horse shoe nail!

We'll be hearing of a lot of knock on effects resulting from this virus.

A friend tells me his business has revived far better than he expected, busier than ever, but some customers are still petrified with fear about any contacts and are postponing orders.

 

[Goldromans]

The 19 missing cars for the 5 car sets will we assume be delivered on the same 26 day 4 car basis basis. Therefore, it would be late May 2021 to get these cars to Scotland.

i would think these extra coaches would be quicker to do since they're only TS coaches, so no cafe or accessible toilet to install.

 

[hexagon789]

i would think these extra coaches would be quicker to do since they're only TS coaches, so no cafe or accessible toilet to install.

My expectations were that every 4 would be done in about the same time as a set (ideally quicker but we'll say that) and they'd be delivered north in sets of 4.

 

[SC318250]

Path in for Monday from Doncaster To Haymarket Depot

 

[hexagon789]

18th set, assuming that's what the path is for. Does feel now as though they are finally getting somewhere with the deliveries.