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Scotrail HSTs - 4-5 years in
- Thread starter BRX
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Taking my first Scotrail HST and my first HST since their withdrawal from the Great Western.
It's nice to be on an old friend but it does feel proper, proper tired, like being on a mk1 slammer circa 2001 or similar, everything's rattling and looking quite worn out or just plain filthy.
It's nice to be on an old friend but it does feel proper, proper tired, like being on a mk1 slammer circa 2001 or similar, everything's rattling and looking quite worn out or just plain filthy.
chuff chuff
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Gee you should have seen some of the 'classics ' when we got them.
hexagon789
Veteran Member
I haven't yet had one that's been tired or dirty, but I've had several very tired Series 1 'Express' 170s (and the odd mucky 156, but strangely not 158 which seem pristine inside and out) this year, mostly subbing for HST sets funnily enough.
BRX
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Same, I have been on some scotrail 170s that feel more tired/dirty than the HSTs.
What's unfortunate about the HSTs is the issue with the vestibule doors; with these stuck open of course all the noise from the carriage connections is more audible and in the colder months it means breezes can blow through.
What's unfortunate about the HSTs is the issue with the vestibule doors; with these stuck open of course all the noise from the carriage connections is more audible and in the colder months it means breezes can blow through.
hexagon789
Veteran Member
Still feel it far less than on 170s/380s/385s I find.
Stathern Jc
Member
And not as noticeable as in the days when someone had left the window open when they opened the door to get out.
(There may be mixed thoughts here on their replacement with the sliding doors. I'd looked out many a time at an unscheduled stop to see what was happening)
(There may be mixed thoughts here on their replacement with the sliding doors. I'd looked out many a time at an unscheduled stop to see what was happening)
I've lost count of the number of times I've been the only person in First Class between Edinburgh and Aberdeen. The HST First is now a complete waste of space, unused for much of the day. Unless of course when it gets invaded by standard passengers who won't move.
I travel regularly between Aberdeen and Edinburgh/Glasgow and when that's on a ScotRail HST in First, I find it a pleasant place to be.
It is usually quiet (but not empty).
It's common to see ScotRail staff travelling between duties situate themselves in First (it must be in their T&C, Standard is clearly not suitable for them?).
The catering is rather sad - cans of (Welsh) water and some biscuits - if the catering crews at the terminus stations have bothered to replenish them.
They hadn't done so - or cleaned the coach from the previous journey - on the Glasgow to Aberdeen HST I was on last night, despite it being sat at GLQ for nearly 30 minutes after its previous journey.
Given that pretty much any ticket can be upgraded to First for £15 any day of the week, it's a no-brainer to me to get a more comfortable seat, a table and - usually - some peace and quiet.
The catering is a total shambles. As you say, the biscuits are rarely replenished but I believe that this is because of a chronic lack of catering staff. In my opinion the First Class coaches are being hauled around all day long carrying very few passengers.
The cafe bar again taking up a quarter of the space. Let's face it, they will never be used. A complete and utter waste of money and space.
The cafe bar again taking up a quarter of the space. Let's face it, they will never be used. A complete and utter waste of money and space.
BRX
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There is a thread here for the purpose of airing opinions on what they should have been or should be replaced with:
Scotrail HST alternatives?
I'm assuming the 5-car EMU would be using 23m coaches. Does this effectively rule out Stadler's FLIRT? They haven't specified what length or how many cars per unit yet, only the expected total number of cars and units across the whole phase 1 order. Often the tender will specify length and...
www.railforums.co.uk
Travelling last week on several sets and I would say their in good condition apart from the vestibule auto doors which ScotRail appear to have given up on, must have been every other one was isolated and open. Mentioned above, it's going to get cold in the winter months.
Re First Class usage. On one of the journeys a couple sat opposite to me and when the guard came they asked for the £15 upgrade. They had bought tickets from the station ticket office earlier in the week and been advised First wasn't always available so best to buy Standard and then upgrade onboard if First was available. This sounds like the ticket offices are tired of complaints of no First and then having to do refunds. Credit to the guard who worked out a First Rtn was marginal cheaper than £15 upgrades each way so he refunded the Standards and issued new First tickets instead.
Re First Class usage. On one of the journeys a couple sat opposite to me and when the guard came they asked for the £15 upgrade. They had bought tickets from the station ticket office earlier in the week and been advised First wasn't always available so best to buy Standard and then upgrade onboard if First was available. This sounds like the ticket offices are tired of complaints of no First and then having to do refunds. Credit to the guard who worked out a First Rtn was marginal cheaper than £15 upgrades each way so he refunded the Standards and issued new First tickets instead.
Has the HST reliability taken another nosedive? I passed Haymarket yesterday and counted at least a dozen rakes of coaches and power cars in various locations, and this was during the day. Passing Cadder I noted another 3 sets and finally one set sitting at Eastfield which was still there several hours later.
Today there are various HST failures, replaced by 170s and 158s. I'm interested to hear if anyone has any insight into why there seem to be so many HSTs lying around. Perhaps Aberdeen and Inverness have the same issue.
Today there are various HST failures, replaced by 170s and 158s. I'm interested to hear if anyone has any insight into why there seem to be so many HSTs lying around. Perhaps Aberdeen and Inverness have the same issue.
The Puddock
Member
Wheel flats account of many of the sets. It has been like this each autumn since they arrived with their very good WSP and no sanders. The tyres can only be reprofiled at Shields, which can fit a maximum for four vehicles (including powercars) at a time or Inverness.
chuff chuff
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Yeah flats on top if the usual stuff,saw a pair of power cars leaving haymarket depot yesterday I assume for shields.
43096
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The power car WSP equipment is the 1976 vintage original and isn’t great. Autumn 2024 should be much better as the new KnorrBremse WSP should be fitted by then.
However there are plenty of spare Power Cars that can be put on the coaches. Doubt they all have maintenance or wheelflat issues. Even at least another 10+ coaches at Slateford that have yet to earn a living.
Training should also not now be an issue.
You get the impression that ScotRail have given up using the HSTs after the vast amounts of money spent on upgrades and leasing charges.
hexagon789
Veteran Member
The stored fleet wil be gradually brought them back up to standard for re-entering service. The in-service fleet gets the WSP mods first, then the stored vehicles.
Also, HA08, which was at Doncaster, moved to Wolverton on the 24/10 for corrosion repairs. It will remain there until February then will return to Haymarket and be available for service.
The other sets at Doncaster will follow suit in due course next year.
Note there is no planned uplift this December, but there are genuine suggestions of a modest increase in June for the summer traffic.
This is likely just by one diagram up to 16, but a potential rearranging of diagrams to make known busy services HST-booked if viable, is another possibility. There should be at least 23 sets available by June (up from 22 presently) and all 25 by next December if things go to plan.
HA08 returned from Wolverton to Mossend last Wednesday.
hexagon789
Veteran Member
Thank you, nobody had told me it returned so I didn't know!
The Puddock
Member
Sorry, I just read my message back and noticed that in my hasty fat fingered typing I missed out the word ‘not’ - as in ‘not very good WSP’
43096
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I kinda assumed that was the case. The key thing really is that in 12 months time, the fleet will have new WSP.
scotraildriver
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Delete
Just to say that some of the ASLEF related posts are in this thread now:
Could Transport Scotland guarantee that LNER Scottish services run during industrial action?
Moderator note: Split from https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/scotrail-hsts-4-years-in.239365 The stored fleet wil be gradually brought them back up to standard for re-entering service. The in-service fleet gets the WSP mods first, then the stored vehicles. Also, HA08, which was at...
www.railforums.co.uk
BRX
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On an hst this evening, first time for about 6 months.
Service was booked hst and one showed up.
Lighting is still awful.
Heating working fine.
Plenty space for everyone & their luggage & bikes.
Mini buffet still not in service & no trolley (and would have been much appreciated after a tight transfer from a delayed train that cost me my opportunity to get some dinner).
Vestibule doors perhaps about 50% of them operational.
The interior generally is doing ok I'd say. Starting to look a bit worn perhaps but not worse than the Lumo train I changed from.
Slight delay to service - but caused by the southbound caledonian sleeper & not the hst.
For me, I'd still take this over 3.5 hrs on a 170 or 158.
Service was booked hst and one showed up.
Lighting is still awful.
Heating working fine.
Plenty space for everyone & their luggage & bikes.
Mini buffet still not in service & no trolley (and would have been much appreciated after a tight transfer from a delayed train that cost me my opportunity to get some dinner).
Vestibule doors perhaps about 50% of them operational.
The interior generally is doing ok I'd say. Starting to look a bit worn perhaps but not worse than the Lumo train I changed from.
Slight delay to service - but caused by the southbound caledonian sleeper & not the hst.
For me, I'd still take this over 3.5 hrs on a 170 or 158.
PG
Established Member
Thanks for the update and honest appraisal, I'm hoping to be on one soon after a long while so this is useful info
BRX
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It remains incredibly frustrating that with just a little more will...they could be as good as they were supposed to be.
Sort the lighting to create a more relaxed ambience, fix those vestibule doors, get the little buffet in service, and you'd have a nicer medium-distance train than nearly anywhere else in the UK and it would live up to its intercity branding.
Earlier in the year I watched a Greater Anglia 745 roll in and thought of the Scotrail HSTs. GA manage to run the little cafe bar on those, which makes them feel like a "proper train" even though they operate a shorter route than most of the I7C ones. The 745s' seating areas feel less "intercity" than the hsts though. Partly because they've got the lighting wrong too.
Sort the lighting to create a more relaxed ambience, fix those vestibule doors, get the little buffet in service, and you'd have a nicer medium-distance train than nearly anywhere else in the UK and it would live up to its intercity branding.
Earlier in the year I watched a Greater Anglia 745 roll in and thought of the Scotrail HSTs. GA manage to run the little cafe bar on those, which makes them feel like a "proper train" even though they operate a shorter route than most of the I7C ones. The 745s' seating areas feel less "intercity" than the hsts though. Partly because they've got the lighting wrong too.