Scotrail New and Refurbished Stock update

Discussion in 'Traction & Rolling Stock' started by Altnabreac, 21 Dec 2015.

  1. PHILIPE

    PHILIPE Veteran Member

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  2. AlistairCowell

    AlistairCowell Member

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    Looks like the interior refurbishment work for the subsequent Class 320/3 units will have to be done somewhere else I suppose.
     
  3. Kite159

    Kite159 Veteran Member

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    320420 was sat outside Shields depot yesterday afternoon so another one of the future 320/4s has arrived
     
  4. ScottDarg

    ScottDarg Member

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    Thanks for confirming - looks to have been released on 07/12/2018 but not yet in service.

    That should bring the number converted and released from Kilmarnock up to 3. Just 2 more to go - 403 and 418.
     
    Last edited: 30 Dec 2018
  5. Altnabreac

    Altnabreac Established Member

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    Scotrail have announced they are retaining a further 4 156s beyond the Franchise Agreement
    http://www.barrheadnews.com/news/17...-ticket-for-barrheads-fed-up-rail-passengers/

    I thought I'd try and work out how much stock Scotrail currently has compared to Franchise Agreement plans:
    156
    48 x 2 car at Franchise start
    Due to have 38 x 2 car in early 2019
    Actually have 43 x 2 car (extra 4 from today's announcement plus 156478 leased from Brodies)

    158
    48 x 2 car at Franchise start
    Due to have 40 x 2 car in early 2019
    Actually have 40 x 2 car

    170
    55 x 3 car at Franchise start
    Due to have 21 x 3 car in early 2019
    Actually have 39 x 3 car in early 2019 - 5 extra sub leased from Southern, 4 x 170/3s and 9 extra 170/4s retained from Porterbrook. The 13 extra were announced in 2016 as being retained for the entire franchise. The 5 sub leased are less clear in the medium term.
    http://www.rail.co.uk/rail-news/2016/scotrail-rail-revolution/

    HST
    None at Franchise start
    Due to have 14 x 4 car and 13 x 5 car in early 2019
    Actually have 11 x 4 car (1 refurbished) and another 2 training sets

    314
    16 x 3 car at Franchise start
    Due to have 3 x 3 car in early 2019
    Actually have 12 x 3 car in early 2019, 3 stored available and 1 scrapped.

    318
    21 x 3 car at Franchise start
    Due to have 21 x 3 car in early 2019
    Actually have 21 x 3 car in early 2019

    320
    22 x 3 car at Franchise start
    Due to have 29 x 3 car in early 2019 (although the Franchise agreement refers to 320/4s as 321s)
    Actually have 32 x 3 car in early 2019 (with 2 more 320/4s due from Wabtec shortly)

    334
    40 x 3 car at Franchise start
    Due to have 40 x 3 car in early 2019
    Actually have 40 x 3 car in early 2019

    380
    22 x 3 car and 16 x 4 car at Franchise start
    Due to have 22 x 3 car and 16 x 4 car in early 2019
    Actually have 22 x 3 car and 16 x 4 car in early 2019

    365
    none at franchise start
    none due in Early 2019
    Actually have 10 x 4 car in early 2019

    385
    none at Franchise start
    Due to have 33 x 3 car and 24 x 4 car in early 2019 (this interested me as I didn't realise it was always planned for final 13 x 3 car units to enter service in 2019)
    Actually have 16 x 3 car and 18 x 4 car in early 2019

    Loco Hauled Coaching stock
    2 x 6 at franchise start
    Due 2019 is unclear but I suspect Franchise would have planned to withdraw them by now
    Actually have 2 x 6 in early 2019

    So our total by traction type is:
    Diesel
    Franchise start - 369 coaches
    Planned early 2019 - 340 coaches
    Actual 2019 - 339 coaches
    Possible 2020 stock? - 404 coaches

    Electric
    Franchise start - 427 coaches
    Planned early 2019 - 604 coaches
    Actual 2019 - 605 coaches
    Possible 2020 stock? - 649 coaches

    So you can see that the amount of stock is actually pretty much as planned in the Franchise Agreement but has just had to be different to that planned due to the 385 and HST delays.

    To guess what the stock situation might be in about 12-18 months time I've assumed:
    2 x 3 car 320s from Wabtec
    385s fully delivered
    HSTs fully delivered
    365s off lease
    LHCS removed
    314s off lease

    That gives a net increase of 65 diesel coaches and 44 electric coaches from the current situation.
     
  6. Southsider

    Southsider Member

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    Thanks you for the update. Does this infer that no more electrification is anticipated between now and the franchise end or are the numbers fluid? The above announcement and recent statements in parliament hint at further improvements without specifying them, I wonder if we are being prepared for disappointment.
     
  7. mcmad

    mcmad Member

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    Interesting....

    Would be very interested to know out of the 11 HST's shown how many are actually in use daily.
     
  8. Altnabreac

    Altnabreac Established Member

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    I think what they show is that at the point the Franchise was signed there were no more electrification announcements confirmed therefore stock was not included in the Franchise agreement. There are an extra 10 x 3 car 385s from 2023 onwards if the 10 year franchise options is taken up by both sides (doubtful I'd think at this stage).

    However looking at the fact that the stock plan from the Franchise Agreement has had multiple temporary stock variations and at least 2 full franchise stock additions (the 16 x 3 170s and the 4 x 2 156s) it seems equally clear that if electrification did take place it should be easy to vary the rolling stock plan to add more EMUs and remove some DMUs.
     
  9. youngac

    youngac Member

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    Today I noticed 320320 no longer has covers obstructing the use of plug sockets onboard. This is the first time I've seen plug sockets available for use on 318s/320s in well over a year.
     
  10. Kite159

    Kite159 Veteran Member

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    But were the sockets working?
     
  11. youngac

    youngac Member

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    That’s a question I can’t answer, but I assume they’re at least safe to use now.
     
  12. alangla

    alangla Member

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    And had they taken down the sign saying they aren’t working “just now” and would be fixed ASAP? What was the problem anyway? Assume some expensive electronics got fried somehow?
     
  13. 47271

    47271 Established Member

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    Have all of the awful old Haymarket 'collapsed seat' 158s been refurbed now, I haven't been on one for months?
     
  14. Mingulay

    Mingulay Member

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    Think you are right. Not been on one for a while. Grim as they were , at least the legroom was a bit more generous given the thinness of the seat cushion. The refurbished ones have the legroom of the rear seat of a Fiat 500 ! Awfull trains to spend any time in. Deep vein thrombosis curtesy of Abellio Scotrail
     
  15. ScottDarg

    ScottDarg Member

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    156476 left Glasgow Works on the night of 29/01/2019 following refurbishment. 156450 took it's place.

    156474 also in the works at the moment but shouldn't be too far off coming out.

    Just 2 active 156s in the Barbie livery now (excluding those that went to Northern) - 156453 and 456.

    Vid of the moves for those interested (not mine):
     
  16. 47271

    47271 Established Member

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    I'm posting this here because it seems to be the most appropriate thread.

    The piece appeared in Scotland on Sunday at the weekend. Ok, it's Dalton so there could be all sorts of things behind it, not least a lack of fact checking, but SATA appears to be a legitimate organisation.

    That said, it seems odd to resign over a the refurbishment of a single train type. I've never been on a Scotrail refurbed 156 - are they really as deficient for disabled passengers as is being made out? I know about the ironing board seats and that space around tables is limited, but what about the rest?

    https://www.scotsman.com/news/trans...quits-in-protest-at-scotrail-trains-1-4878191

     
  17. scotraildriver

    scotraildriver Established Member

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    For a start the toilet bowl is the standard UAT type used in every time of train. And the door close buttons are not one third of the size, they haven't even been changed. There is much more space around the new toilet to manoeuvre a wheelchair so not quite sure about this article.
     
  18. JumpinTrainz

    JumpinTrainz Member

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    Normally around every 10 years trains start their refurbishment programme is there any plans for the 380s to be refurbished? Normally by this point trains are screaming out for a tidy up but the 380s are in pretty good nick I would say.

    Also I may be going crazy but did I really see a 380 on the A-B line today? I’m sure my eyes must have been playing tricks but it looked awfully like a 3 car 380 around about Bathgate at about 2ish
     
  19. Highlandspring

    Highlandspring Established Member

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    Just had a look and it seems your eyes were indeed playing tricks.
     
  20. JumpinTrainz

    JumpinTrainz Member

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    I thought so never saw one on that line before must have been a 334. I’ll call Specksavers
     
  21. Wst71Pa2

    Wst71Pa2 Member

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    [/QUOTE]

    Just like the 156/158 replacement program, hahaha
     
  22. GrimShady

    GrimShady On Moderation

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    They are definitely worse with regards to seats. Congrats ScotRail, you've managed to make a bad experience worse!
     
    Last edited: 29 Mar 2019
  23. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    Matter of opinion there. Personally I like the seats, particularly when they have the ScotRail contoured base. Anyone who has used them on a train in the South East really needs to try this type before assuming they are the same - the change is very small, but the difference it makes is huge. Not dissimilar to the way Class 800 seats would be totally acceptable to me were a very small change made to the headrest contour and a bit of ply placed under the cushion to stop you feeling the support bar. (Doing both of those things would near enough give you a Desiro seat, which is one of my UK favourites).
     
  24. GrimShady

    GrimShady On Moderation

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    IMO they are not suitable on an arse numbing experience all the way from Oban.

    Northerns 155s have superior seats.
     
  25. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    The Chapman seat is indeed better but it's no longer on the market, sadly.
     
  26. 43096

    43096 Established Member

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    320418 was released from Kilmarnock to Shields Depot last Tuesday (16th). This is the final conversion from 321 to 320 of the current batch of five.
     
  27. 59CosG95

    59CosG95 Established Member

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    With regards the 156s' refurbishment, I currently have the following units listed as "Fully refurbished with ironing boards":
    • 430-437
    • 439
    • 442
    • 446
    • 450
    • 457
    • 458
    • 474
    • 476-478
    • 492-495
    • 504
    • 510.
    I have the following as "Repainted and new toilet fitted but unrefurbished with Ashbourne seats":
    • 462
    • 467
    • 501-503
    • 505-509
    • 511-514.
    I have the following as "Repainted, but not PRM compliant"
    • 445
    • 499
    • 500.
    And finally, I have the following as "Unrepainted, and certainly none of the other things":
    • 453
    • 456.
    Have I got the list relatively accurate?
     
  28. JModulo

    JModulo Member

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    432 still retains the old seats as does 478 (owned by Brodie, Kilmarnock), and do not have the new ones. 445, 499, 500, 453, 456 are all now fully refurbished and prm compliant. All Scotrail sets are now refurbished with the only exception that some retain Ashbournes.
     
  29. Altnabreac

    Altnabreac Established Member

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    So as I understand it the 156 and 320 refurbishments are now totally complete, 385s are down to the last 5 to be delivered and all the relivery / refurb work is complete on 158 / 170 / 318 and 334s.

    So as I understand it the only stock Scotrail currently have in works are the 153s, the HSTs and the last 5 385s.

    Beginning to look a bit more like their stable long term fleet will all be available before too long.
     

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