Scrapped/Preserved Mark 3 Coaches

[gimmea50anyday]

Shame, yes. but back when they were built we had east coast, west coast, western and even cross country sleepers. The east coast ones were knocked on the head during electrification and never reinstated. CrossCountry ones were lost through time and tide pre privatisation leaving the western and west last trains we still have today. As a result there was a mass surplus. Such that GNER in their early days considered converting some to day coaches to increase their rakes.

Don't forget the farce of night stock that ended up in Canada where some value for money study decided there was no market for sleeper trains in the UK. Some people in high place still think the remaining sleepers we still have should be scrapped. Canada certainly don't think so as they bought the entire fleet of night stock!!!

 

[455driver]

They are just there for spares, once stripped they will be cut up or if one of the in service coaches has an oops moment they will rebuild one of the "stored" coaches with the good bits off the broken one.

EMT did that after a buffet car was bent at Neville Hill depot, Leeds.

 

[ryan125hst]

Shame, yes. but back when they were built we had east coast, west coast, western and even cross country sleepers. The east coast ones were knocked on the head during electrification and never reinstated. CrossCountry ones were lost through time and tide pre privatisation leaving the western and west last trains we still have today. As a result there was a mass surplus. Such that GNER in their early days considered converting some to day coaches to increase their rakes.

Don't forget the farce of night stock that ended up in Canada where some value for money study decided there was no market for sleeper trains in the UK. Some people in high place still think the remaining sleepers we still have should be scrapped. Canada certainly don't think so as they bought the entire fleet of night stock!!!

According to Wikipedia, 120 SLEP's and 88 SLE's were built. How many are still in service?

 

[sprinterguy]

According to Wikipedia, 120 SLEP's and 88 SLE's were built. How many are still in service?

46 SLEPs and 20 SLEs.

 

[ryan125hst]

46 SLEPs and 20 SLEs.

Have a most of the others been scrapped then?

 

[sprinterguy]

Have a most of the others been scrapped then?

An awful lot of them have passed into preservation in a number of forms.

 

[BestWestern]

On the subject of coaching stock, I've been looking at some very interesting pics from a few years back of the scrap/stored rakes at Old Oak Common. Quite a stack they had, mainly MK1 and MK2 coaches plus some TPOs and the like. Is any of this stuff still there, or is it all long gone now? Also, what's the score with Southall and it's seemingly abandoned MK2 stock?

 

[bronzeonion]

I have noticed at pres railways, MK3 Sleepers have had a bogie swap and most sit around with commonwealth bogies!

 

[theblackwatch]

On the subject of coaching stock, I've been looking at some very interesting pics from a few years back of the scrap/stored rakes at Old Oak Common. Quite a stack they had, mainly MK1 and MK2 coaches plus some TPOs and the like. Is any of this stuff still there, or is it all long gone now? Also, what's the score with Southall and it's seemingly abandoned MK2 stock?

That stuff has long gone, along with most of Old Oak Common depot!

The stock at Southall belongs to WCRC, its is their southern outpost. As well as some out of service stock, it is also used as a base for operational rakes when they are running in the south.

 

[Blindtraveler]

how many HST MK3s have been razer bladed? Im guessing these were all due to accidents.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
and drifting a little further off topic how many MK4s have been scrapped?

 

[fgwrich]

I have noticed at pres railways, MK3 Sleepers have had a bogie swap and most sit around with commonwealth bogies!

With most of the bogies removed and swapped on condition of sale - presumably to give the mainline running stock greater inventory / spares.

On the subject of coaching stock, I've been looking at some very interesting pics from a few years back of the scrap/stored rakes at Old Oak Common. Quite a stack they had, mainly MK1 and MK2 coaches plus some TPOs and the like. Is any of this stuff still there, or is it all long gone now? Also, what's the score with Southall and it's seemingly abandoned MK2 stock?

All of the stock on the GWR Side of Old Oak would have been EWS & Riviera trains', with a lot of that stock moved to various locations - mostly Riviera at Crewe & Eastleigh, and EWS / DBS's Mk2s moving to Eastleigh or Toton. As for the Mk1 TPOs, i couldnt tell you which ones they were, but presumably either made it into Preservation or a one way trip to Rotherham - by road. Sadly there's not alot left of the proper Old Oak Common depot left anymore - The turntables are gone and filled in, most of the sites now been levelled and gravelled over, Sadly 'The Factorys' also now gone, all that's left is the old Pullman Car sheds - granted a stay of execution for now, but as that's where the temporary Crossrail Tunneling Section factory currently sits, itself to be replaced with the Crossrail Depot and potential new High Speed 2 Station site within a few years aswell - The High Speed Two station will also envelope the current FGW & HEX Depots aswell, with North Star set to become IEP Depot, and extra stabling sidings to be built up at Reading for TV & IEP Rolling stocks. Sadly, it's all change on the Great Western now!

As for the Southall Mk2s - If your on about the Ex Virgin rake, that's fairly recently moved up to Southall from Eastleigh and presumably, along with any other WCRC stock needing attention at Carnforth. Most of which depends on what space and schedules available up there anyway.

 

[sprinterguy]

and drifting a little further off topic how many MK4s have been scrapped?

The following thread will be of use as regards the scrapped mark 4s:
http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=61607

Accident at Hatfield, Hertfordshire, 17 October 2000.
Formation:91023+12227+12471+12517+12438+12531+1231 4+10327+11249+11248+82200

12314 (Mk4 TSOD) Scrapped at Crewe Works
10327 (Mk4 RFM) Scrapped at Crewe Works
Other carriages repaired or undamaged


Accident at Great Heck, North Yorkshire, 28 February 2001.
Formation: 82221+11224+11213+10322+12306+12525+12516+12412+12 413+12206+91023

82221 (Mk4 DVT) Scrapped at Doncaster Works
10322 (Mk4 RFM) Scrapped at Doncaster Works
11213 (Mk4 FO) Scrapped at Doncaster Works
11224 (Mk4 FO) Scrapped at Doncaster Works
12206 (Mk4 TSOE) Scrapped at Doncaster Works
12306 (Mk4 TSOD) Scrapped at Doncaster Works
12412 (Mk4 TSO) Scrapped at Doncaster Works
12413 (Mk4 TSO) Scrapped at Doncaster Works
12516 (Mk4 TSO) Scrapped at Doncaster Works
12525 (Mk4 TSO) Scrapped at Doncaster Works
(91023 recovered undamaged/repaired)

The entire rake that was involved in the Great Heck crash was written off and scrapped, and of course the DVT was completely demolished. Two carriages were written off and scrapped after the Hatfield derailment.

 

[Pugwash]

Greater Anglia appear to be keeping their MK3's preserved, the interior is practically original.

 

[Phil6219]

Don't forget the farce of night stock that ended up in Canada where some value for money study decided there was no market for sleeper trains in the UK. Some people in high place still think the remaining sleepers we still have should be scrapped. Canada certainly don't think so as they bought the entire fleet of night stock!!!

Ah yes the good old NightStar stock, a shame really but it was a little over ambitious for the time, heck it still wouldn't work today

I have noticed at pres railways, MK3 Sleepers have had a bogie swap and most sit around with commonwealth bogies!

Simply because they are not going anywhere once set up on site, it would be a waste of high speed bogies. I'm not sure now, but I think our sleeper at the ELR is actually on tiny bogies used for moving stuff around the depot. It's maroon on the viewable side but apparently is still in Intercity on the other side which is against the wall so is not visible.


On the subject of old Sleepers, I was led to believe that all Mark 1 Sleeper carriages were scrapped due to large amounts of magic dust which given the huge costs in removal and disposal meant it was not possible to preserve any... However I noticed on my trip to Carnforth a fortnight ago that there was one Blue & Grey sleeper carriage which looked very Mark 1 (albiet it really did look like not much more than a shell) and also round the back there was an LMS sleeper carriage of some sorts...

Phil

 

[Boothby97]

Ah yes the good old NightStar stock, a shame really but it was a little over ambitious for the time, heck it still wouldn't work today



Simply because they are not going anywhere once set up on site, it would be a waste of high speed bogies. I'm not sure now, but I think our sleeper at the ELR is actually on tiny bogies used for moving stuff around the depot. It's maroon on the viewable side but apparently is still in Intercity on the other side which is against the wall so is not visible.


On the subject of old Sleepers, I was led to believe that all Mark 1 Sleeper carriages were scrapped due to large amounts of magic dust which given the huge costs in removal and disposal meant it was not possible to preserve any... However I noticed on my trip to Carnforth a fortnight ago that there was one Blue & Grey sleeper carriage which looked very Mark 1 (albiet it really did look like not much more than a shell) and also round the back there was an LMS sleeper carriage of some sorts...

Phil

Believe there are at least 3 at Carnforth
Thanks, Sam

 

[Blindtraveler]

My thanks to Sprinterguy for the MK4 Info, didnt realise the entire great hek wrake was lost, what we could do with that stock now a? how many HST MK3s have we lost?

 

[gimmea50anyday]

There has only been 3 major incidents that have resulted in the loss of rolling stock. These being southall 1997, Ladbroke Grove 1999 and Ufton Nevert 2005. As a result 3 power cars were lost and I estimate 15 mk 3 coaches, mainlyy first class coaches and buffet cars as these were leading in all 3 incidents. Which ones i am sure there will be some individual along shortly who will have the full figures and the vehicle numbers...

Ironically however some of the surviving TSO's from southall were also involved in the ladbroke grove incident. FGW took these out of service and used them as training vehicles in Minehead but where they are now I don't know.

 

[455driver]

The ones I have got-
Southall 19/09/97- (43173),41049,41050 withdrawn
Ladbroke Grove- (43011),41042,41060,40213,42082 withdrawn
Ufton Nervert- (43019),41013,41014,40206,42018,42022,42017,42020,44006 (complete rake except 43029) withdrawn.

 

[fgwrich]

There has only been 3 major incidents that have resulted in the loss of rolling stock. These being southall 1997, Ladbroke Grove 1999 and Ufton Nevert 2005. As a result 3 power cars were lost and I estimate 15 mk 3 coaches, mainlyy first class coaches and buffet cars as these were leading in all 3 incidents. Which ones i am sure there will be some individual along shortly who will have the full figures and the vehicle numbers...

Ironically however some of the surviving TSO's from southall were also involved in the ladbroke grove incident. FGW took these out of service and used them as training vehicles in Minehead but where they are now I don't know.

Another Mk3 which survived two major accidents on the Great Western i believe was one of the Mk3 Buffet Cars. Which whilst it was in use with FGW untill 2011, is now the last remaining Mk3 stored in Eastleigh Works and was not selected for the buffet car to TSO conversion.

 

[34D]

I'm struggling to think of any mark 3 coaches that are preserved (as I don't believe that the volunteer-accommodation sleepers really 'count' as preserved) and can't think of any.

One of the prototype HST vehicles was preserved at Peak Rail for a while, but this was resold and I understand is now part of the NMT.

When googling to try and get its number, I came across this http://us.zinio.com/sitemap/Entertainment-magazines/Rail-Express/November-2011/cat1960014/is-416194463/pg-63 which is a copy of a magazine article listing the fate of the prototype coaches.

Sadly though I can't read the incredibly small text (may just be an issue with my phone) so perhaps if someone else can read it they could summarise?

 

[bronzeonion]

The Mid Norfolk Railway have a MK3 buffet car, I think that's the only MK3 in preservation.

 

[jopsuk]

Sadly though I can't read the incredibly small text (may just be an issue with my phone) so perhaps if someone else can read it they could summarise?

Two coaches on the NMT, two on the Royal Train, three scattered around EC's fleet, two in FGW's fleet (one stored) and one scrapped in 1993.

One power car was cut up, the other is at the NRM.

(I had already posted this, along with a small screen shot of the article, but that's been deleted- I guess on copyright grounds?. Any time previously I've had something deleted I've had a notification/explanation)

 

[fgwrich]

The Mid Norfolk Railway have a MK3 buffet car, I think that's the only MK3 in preservation.

That's the only running Mk3 RFM in preservation, a few have been scattered around the country though as static cafe's. There used to be one in Minehead, and there's one as i said at the S&Ds Midsummer Norton station.

 

[DarloRich]

The following thread will be of use as regards the scrapped mark 4s:
http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=61607



The entire rake that was involved in the Great Heck crash was written off and scrapped, and of course the DVT was completely demolished. Two carriages were written off and scrapped after the Hatfield derailment.

I meant to ask before but there seems to be a MKIV inside Wabtec at Doncaster. It seems to have been stripped of components and is GNER livery. Is that one of the written off coaches?

There is also what looks like a driving car from an Anglia 321 and a couple of ex virgin MKIII buffets. Are they also write offs?

 

[sprinterguy]

I meant to ask before but there seems to be a MKIV inside Wabtec at Doncaster. It seems to have been stripped of components and is GNER livery. Is that one of the written off coaches?

There is also what looks like a driving car from an Anglia 321 and a couple of ex virgin MKIII buffets. Are they also write offs?

I do not believe that there are any written off mark 4s still extant. There is a semi-stripped mark 3 FO in GNER livery, number 41043, that is visible in Wabtec yard from passing trains at Doncaster. This carriage has been out of use for a while following some sort of collision damage or rough shunt, and has most recently been used in extensively testing the design of the power doors that have since been fitted to the Chiltern mark 3s.

I always see a very forlorn Virgin liveried mark 3 FO stored just inside of the Compound at Doncaster whenever I pass on the train, which is carriage 11028. It’s not a write off, and is now owned by Arriva. The restaurant car that formerly partnered it in a similarly dilapidated condition was 10245, which is now owned by West Coast Railway Company and has reportedly been moved to Carnforth.

 

[Buttsy]

There is a MK3 sleeper at Didcot in a chocolate livery, but I'm assuming this is for volunteer accommodation. It can be seen on Oxford - Reading trains that use the avoiding lines.

 

[theblackwatch]

I'm struggling to think of any mark 3 coaches that are preserved (as I don't believe that the volunteer-accommodation sleepers really 'count' as preserved) and can't think of any.

One of the prototype HST vehicles was preserved at Peak Rail for a while, but this was resold and I understand is now part of the NMT.

When googling to try and get its number, I came across this http://us.zinio.com/sitemap/Entertainment-magazines/Rail-Express/November-2011/cat1960014/is-416194463/pg-63 which is a copy of a magazine article listing the fate of the prototype coaches.

Sadly though I can't read the incredibly small text (may just be an issue with my phone) so perhaps if someone else can read it they could summarise?

Zinio's zoom facility should allow you to look at an enlarged version of that page and read it but perhaps it doesn't work on all phones (no problem with it on my PC). Given that I actually wrote that article which appeared in the November 2011 issue of Rail Express, here is a copy of the table which appeared as part of it detailing the status of each vehicle.

TRSB 10000 40000 975984 New Measurement Train
TRUK 10100 40500 977089 Scrapped, Booths 02.93
TF 11000 41000 975814 New Measurement Train
TF 11001 - 2903 Royal Train coach
TF 11002 41001 41170 East Coast (part of EC56)
TF 11003 41002 41174, 42357 East Coast (part of EC60)
TS 12000 42000 41172, 42355 East Coast (part of EC60)
TS 12001 - 2904 Royal Train coach
TS 12002 42001 41171, 42353 First Great Western (part of LA60)
TS 12003 42002 41173, 42356 First Great Western (spare car)

 

[6Gman]

Having seen some of those prototype Mk IIIs on test trains when they were brand, brand new I think it's brilliant that they are still in use.

The industry has certainly had its money's worth from them!

 

[jopsuk]

Aye, whilst it is a bit sad the set wasn't kept together (with both power cars) from a historical point of view, most of them have been put to good use. And the Royal Train.

 

[Bridge189]

The following thread will be of use as regards the scrapped mark 4s:
http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=61607



The entire rake that was involved in the Great Heck crash was written off and scrapped, and of course the DVT was completely demolished. Two carriages were written off and scrapped after the Hatfield derailment.

I know some of the MK4s from Hatfield were withdrawn from traffic until they were refurbished with Mallard interiors, so a few years.