SWR Repaints and Refurbishments

[swt_passenger]

But it was stated in article about the Class 444/450 refurbishment over a year ago

I’d take the franchise spec I quoted as the true story. Stating in an article somewhere that the trains will be “refurbished and get new PIS displays” doesn’t really conflict with that?

 

[Goldfish62]

I’d take the franchise spec I quoted as the true story. Stating in an article somewhere that the trains will be “refurbished and get new PIS displays” doesn’t really conflict with that?

The franchise agreement gives a later date by which the displays must be installed. End of next year, I think.

 

[swt_passenger]

The franchise agreement gives a later date by which the displays must be installed. End of next year, I think.

Yes, Dec 2020, I posted a link Monday (#1736) to where I originally quoted the franchise agreement.

 

[43096]

Yes, Dec 2020, I posted a link Monday (#1736) to where I originally quoted the franchise agreement.

Anyone taking bets on SWR missing that commitment on top of all the others they’ve missed?

 

[swt_passenger]

Anyone taking bets on SWR missing that commitment on top of all the others they’ve missed?

No, but I think there’s a great chance that once they’re fitted people will post complaints about them displaying irrelevant information...

 

[387star]

Regarding poles southern metro 377s have green poles and rails but the rest have yellow not sure why this is but standardisation is hard ti come by with train interiors
Just look at 700s with only some having tables

 

[RealTrains07]

Regarding poles southern metro 377s have green poles and rails but the rest have yellow not sure why this is but standardisation is hard ti come by with train interiors
Just look at 700s with only some having tables

Hopefully SWR will follow through with a standard blue colour scheme.

Dont see why the poles should be left out considering WMR are re colouring the entire interior of the 323s even though they are soon to be replaced

 

[59CosG95]

Hopefully SWR will follow through with a standard blue colour scheme.

Dont see why the poles should be left out considering WMR are re colouring the entire interior of the 323s even though they are soon to be replaced

What FirstGroup & MTR do is a matter for FirstGroup & MTR, and what TfWM, Abellio, Mitsui & JR East do is not a matter for FirstGroup & MTR.

While 172/0s replacing clapped-out Sprinters on the Nuneaton-Coventry-Leamington corridor is basically set in stone, there's no need to refurb 153s. 323s may have a longer stay of execution that planned, due to the farces involving the 710s. I'm not sure why WMT have chosen to stick a new interior in the refurbed and (crucially) PRM compliant 323s, but their branding strategy is wildly different to SWR's.

 

[Helvellyn]

159s are coming back with pale blue grab rails in the doorways and disco area but dark blue leading into the saloons.

But the 159s have a different bodge job - vestibule walls are dark grey except the frame and door into the cab that remains SWT pale blue and white. Contrasts even worse with the SWT bodge job that meant the cab interiors including the connecting gangways were left in the original paint! So three schemes visible if you sit in a cab vestibule tip up seat.

 

[Goldfish62]

159s are coming back with pale blue grab rails in the doorways and disco area but dark blue leading into the saloons.

But the 159s have a different bodge job - vestibule walls are dark grey except the frame and door into the cab that remains SWT pale blue and white. Contrasts even worse with the SWT bodge job that meant the cab interiors including the connecting gangways were left in the original paint! So three schemes visible if you sit in a cab vestibule tip up seat.

The differing shades of blue on the grab poles are probably deliberate. The 09 tube stock has different shades of blue around the doors to the rest of the rest the carriage.

"Bodge jobs" ie cost cutting resulting in colour mismatches in refurbishments are nothing new. On the Class 460s converted into 458/5s the heater grills were deliberately left in GatEx colours and the seat frames were left dark grey, plus GatEx style signage was left in the toilets.

 

[Goldfish62]

159s are coming back with pale blue grab rails in the doorways and disco area but dark blue leading into the saloons.

But the 159s have a different bodge job - vestibule walls are dark grey except the frame and door into the cab that remains SWT pale blue and white. Contrasts even worse with the SWT bodge job that meant the cab interiors including the connecting gangways were left in the original paint! So three schemes visible if you sit in a cab vestibule tip up seat.

The differing shades of blue on the grab poles are probably deliberate. The 09 tube stock has different shades of blue around the doors to the rest of the rest the carriage.

"Bodge jobs" ie cost cutting resulting in colour mismatches in refurbishments are nothing new. On the Class 460s converted into 458/5s the heater grills were deliberately left in GatEx colours and the seat frames were left dark grey, plus GatEx style signage was left in the toilets.

 

[RealTrains07]

What FirstGroup & MTR do is a matter for FirstGroup & MTR, and what TfWM, Abellio, Mitsui & JR East do is not a matter for FirstGroup & MTR.

While 172/0s replacing clapped-out Sprinters on the Nuneaton-Coventry-Leamington corridor is basically set in stone, there's no need to refurb 153s. 323s may have a longer stay of execution that planned, due to the farces involving the 710s. I'm not sure why WMT have chosen to stick a new interior in the refurbed and (crucially) PRM compliant 323s, but their branding strategy is wildly different to SWR's.

Didnt mention the 153s originally.
323s unlike majority of SWR stock are not due for replacement. I dont see why in general you would fully re do a train type that will be gone in a couple years compared to trains given a poorer refurb that are due to stay for the for the foreseeable future.

 

[59CosG95]

Didnt mention the 153s originally.
323s unlike majority of SWR stock are not due for replacement. I dont see why in general you would fully re do a train type that will be gone in a couple years compared to trains given a poorer refurb that are due to stay for the for the foreseeable future.

Can't think of what else the 36-strong order of 3-car Class 730 Aventra EMUs for WMR is for then...

The point is, SWR management have had a different approach to refurbishment than the WMR management, for one reason or another.

 

[RealTrains07]

Can't think of what else the 36-strong order of 3-car Class 730 Aventra EMUs for WMR is for then...

The point is, SWR management have had a different approach to refurbishment than the WMR management, for one reason or another.

Well considering new trains like class 730 or 701 dont apply in this situation as they weren’t inherited at the start of the franchise

 

[Helvellyn]

The differing shades of blue on the grab poles are probably deliberate. The 09 tube stock has different shades of blue around the doors to the rest of the rest the carriage.

Quite likely. It wasn't a criticism, although neither handrail colour matches the hand grabs on the seat backs. Then the toilet seats still have SWT orange lids...

 

[Goldfish62]

Can't think of what else the 36-strong order of 3-car Class 730 Aventra EMUs for WMR is for then...

The point is, SWR management have had a different approach to refurbishment than the WMR management, for one reason or another.

Quite. The SWT approach to refurbishment was completely different between the 455s, which to me was the exemplar for suburban stock, and the 458/5, which was almost like they really didn't want to do it

 

[43096]

Quite. The SWT approach to refurbishment was completely different between the 455s, which to me was the exemplar for suburban stock, and the 458/5, which was almost like they really didn't want to do it

There was a lot of politics behind the 458/5s, with DfT wanting to keep cutting costs. It was a battle to get the 10-car project signed off at all and DfT wanted a lower number of sets (30 IIRC) until some common sense prevailed and maximum use was made of the 458 and 460 fleets.

 

[pompeyfan]

There was a lot of politics behind the 458/5s, with DfT wanting to keep cutting costs. It was a battle to get the 10-car project signed off at all and DfT wanted a lower number of sets (30 IIRC) until some common sense prevailed and maximum use was made of the 458 and 460 fleets.

You mean DfT interfered with a project, messed it up for those implementing it and then when those having to do the work finally succeeded, the DfT took all the glory? No I’d never believe that at all!!

 

[Goldfish62]

There was a lot of politics behind the 458/5s, with DfT wanting to keep cutting costs. It was a battle to get the 10-car project signed off at all and DfT wanted a lower number of sets (30 IIRC) until some common sense prevailed and maximum use was made of the 458 and 460 fleets.

The final result was certainly a disappointment in terms of cosmetic refurbishment.

 

[swt_passenger]

The rolling stock situation at the end of SWT’s days would have been quite different if the 458 5-car extension and associated 456 transfer had never happened. The original ITT for extra stock, (which eventually resulted after a few year’s delay in the lash-up we got), was for 120-180 vehicles in 5 car formation to be compatible with the Desiro fleet.

If they’d received what was tendered for in early 2009, the next order in sequence that became the 707s, would most likely have been for similar stock, and we’d possibly just be looking at 455 replacement now...

 

[Class455]

Regarding poles southern metro 377s have green poles and rails but the rest have yellow not sure why this is but standardisation is hard ti come by with train interiors

And I think you'll find that's because the 377/6's and 7's were built 10 years later than the rest. Although I'm quite surprised the handrails on the original 377's haven't been repainted during their recent refurbishment

 

[Goldfish62]

And I think you'll find that's because the 377/6's and 7's were built 10 years later than the rest. Although I'm quite surprised the handrails on the original 377's haven't been repainted during their recent refurbishment

I think they were recoated, but in the same colour.

 

[43096]

The final result was certainly a disappointment in terms of cosmetic refurbishment.

I wouldn’t say so. The 458/0s had had new seat covers not long before conversion, so they didn’t need changing. It was only really the (former) first class areas that weren’t up to standard.

I still rate the 458/5s as the best of the SWT/SWR suburban fleet. Bet the 701s will be a significant downgrade on them!

 

[Goldfish62]

I wouldn’t say so. The 458/0s had had new seat covers not long before conversion, so they didn’t need changing. It was only really the (former) first class areas that weren’t up to standard.

I still rate the 458/5s as the best of the SWT/SWR suburban fleet. Bet the 701s will be a significant downgrade on them!

For what was billed as a major refurbishment I would have expected an internal repaint, guard's panels in every carriage, refurbished toilets, upgraded PIS and improved PA so the guard can actually be heard clearly.

What we got apart from the seat reconfiguration was new flooring, auto closing doors and just one intermediate guards panel. Even old out of date information notices from the early 2000s were left in place. A far cry from the 455 and 456 refurbishments.

 

[43096]

For what was billed as a major refurbishment I would have expected an internal repaint, guard's panels in every carriage, refurbished toilets, upgraded PIS and improved PA so the guard can actually be heard clearly.

What we got apart from the seat reconfiguration was new flooring, auto closing doors and just one intermediate guards panel. Even old out of date information notices from the early 2000s were left in place. A far cry from the 455 and 456 refurbishments.

It was a conversion to 5-car, not a major refurbishment. Scope cut for the reasons already stated.

 

[Goldfish62]

It was a conversion to 5-car, not a major refurbishment. Scope cut for the reasons already stated.

SWT stated several times in press releases that it was a major refurbishment as well as adding a fifth car.

 

[SWRtrain_fan]

I still rate the 458/5s as the best of the SWT/SWR suburban fleet.

Personally I don't like the 458/5s much. Although the seats are very comfortable, the door tone is quite annoying(I think there's about 3 tones that play simultaneously), and the PIS is really poorly set up compared to the rest of the SWR fleet. I live on the Waterloo-Reading line and I always prefer to get a 450 instead of a 458

 

[lewisf]

Even when they were in 3+2 configuration the seats on the 458s where very comfortable

 

[Adsy125]

Just got on the first 444 I've seen where SWR Stream works, unrefurbished interestingly. The selection doesn't seem bad considering the longest anyone will be on one for is 3 hours. The train WiFi isn't giving access to the internet at any sensible speed though!

EDIT: Screenshot didn't upload correctly the first time.

 

[SWRtrain_fan]

Nice, it's good that SWR have now started to add the onboard Infotainment system to their trains. The reason the Wi-Fi isnt working on some trains is because it is currently being upgraded on the 444s/450s