TfW to operate HSTs between Cardiff and Holyhead?

[hexagon789]

Should it not make any difference as the WAG runs as load 4 and runs the exact same route. Plus if there will be a TGS it really makes no difference.

That's what I'm struggling to get my head round fully, but someone mentioned Shotton could be an issue unless they miss out calling there.

 

[nat67]

That's what I'm struggling to get my head round fully, but someone mentioned Shotton could be an issue unless they miss out calling there.

I didn't think most stuff called there in the first place. Only North Wales to Manchester stuff.

 

[hexagon789]

I didn't think most stuff called there in the first place. Only North Wales to Manchester stuff.

In that case I'm not sure why 2+4 could be an issue, unless I've missed something obvious.

 

[nat67]

In that case I'm not sure why 2+4 could be an issue, unless I've missed something obvious.

Well like I say the WAG runs load 4 and so does the North Wales 67 set.

 

[hexagon789]

Well like I say the WAG runs load 4 and so does the North Wales 67 set.

I think the WAG has even run as 67+5+DVT with an extra TSO.

 

[nat67]

I think the WAG has even run as 67+5+DVT with an extra TSO.

Really, I have never seen that.

 

[hexagon789]

Really, I have never seen that.

Definitely seen it somewhere. I'll have a look about. TfW have enough TSOs to make both Mk3 rakes 5 seating coaches and I think still leave a spare RFM and TSO (maybe even two TSOs) IIRC.

 

[43096]

As I said either end. Okay Buffets only have one in the normal slam door end but only on the left hand side?

You don’t understand. You cannot release both ends of a Mark 3 CDL under local door operation (that is NOT SDO) - there is no panel to do that at 2 of the 4 doors. On an LHCS Mark 3 - which is what I have the diagram to hand for - only doors 2 and 4 have control panels.

 

[sw1ller]

Ok, the wag runs the same route but doesn’t stop at shotton, Ruabon and Chirk. These stations can only hold 4 coaches. I mentioned this as I believe 2+5 won’t happen. And I think they’ll keep to 2+3 as that’s the same as the 175 diagrams and they can stop normally at request stops between Llandudno junction and Holyhead (excluding Conway, LlanfairPG and Valley). So there’ll be minimum change to how it’s worked now.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Does a Mk3 have a local door release, if so could that be used? (Though I half recall it doesn't?)

 

[hexagon789]

Ok, the wag runs the same route but doesn’t stop at shotton, Ruabon and Chirk. These stations can only hold 4 coaches. I mentioned this as I believe 2+5 won’t happen. And I think they’ll keep to 2+3 as that’s the same as the 175 diagrams and they can stop normally at request stops between Llandudno junction and Holyhead (excluding Conway, LlanfairPG and Valley). So there’ll be minimum change to how it’s worked now.

I concede that those reasons do make sense for 2+3 sets.

 

[sw1ller]

I concede that those reasons do make sense for 2+3 sets.

Anything I say is pure conjecture, it’s just what makes sense to me. I still don’t know the station lengths south of Shrewsbury so I don’t know how much what I say factors into the plans. Plans that may not even see fruition yet. I’d love to see 4+ carriages but I can see it causing problems. Taking in mind the units will only be here until December, I would expect minimum deviation from the current situation.

 

[hexagon789]

Anything I say is pure conjecture, it’s just what makes sense to me. I still don’t know the station lengths south of Shrewsbury so I don’t know how much what I say factors into the plans. Plans that may not even see fruition yet. I’d love to see 4+ carriages but I can see it causing problems. Taking in mind the units will only be here until December, I would expect minimum deviation from the current situation.

It was really just my belief that 2+3 was too unusual to make sense, but with the outlined reasons, it does make sense.

 

[mmh]

When Worle and Weston Milton were served by GWR HSTs the doors ahead/behind the guard were released. Why couldn't the same be done on TFW if needed?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Anything I say is pure conjecture, it’s just what makes sense to me. I still don’t know the station lengths south of Shrewsbury so I don’t know how much what I say factors into the plans. Plans that may not even see fruition yet. I’d love to see 4+ carriages but I can see it causing problems. Taking in mind the units will only be here until December, I would expect minimum deviation from the current situation.

Shortest platforms Shrewsbury-Newport (at Ludlow, Leominster, Abergavenny) are 5x20m, so will take 4xMk3.

 

[CC 72100]

When Worle and Weston Milton were served by GWR HSTs the doors ahead/behind the guard were released. Why couldn't the same be done on TFW if needed?

That's the SDO in action, which has been described upthread.

There is no local door release, but you can release just 1 passenger door by releasing doors ahead from the CDL panel at the passenger end of the TGS vehicle. I know because I've done it before!

 

[driver_m]

How does the Mk3 set manage at the moment with Helsby? They currently lock out a 175 door when a double set stops there in the afternoon.

Incidentally, re the HSTs. I recall 2 XC drivers having a debate about the speed capabilities of two power cars and what speed to run at. (Both retired in case anyone starts trying to cause trouble!) One was adamant that you could do 125 and the other 75. Both agreed though that they could easily brake normally from 125 and they were fantastic performers on their own, like rockets! Having only experienced opening up an 87 and a 90 running solo, I can imagine it was pretty entertaining.

 

[43096]

That's the SDO in action, which has been described upthread.

There is no local door release, but you can release just 1 passenger door by releasing doors ahead from the CDL panel at the passenger end of the TGS vehicle. I know because I've done it before!

It is also technically possible - but probably frowned upon by the TOCs - to get local door release on CDL stock by doing a quick press and release of the buttons on the panel, rather than holding down for 2secs or so.

 

[31160]

If this indeed does commence in June would anyone be able to guess at when, I'm only asking because I'm getting a freedom of Wales early June to go to Pembroke on a 800 so i may be able to jiggle a bit

 

[mememachine175]

How does the Mk3 set manage at the moment with Helsby? They currently lock out a 175 door when a double set stops there in the afternoon.

Incidentally, re the HSTs. I recall 2 XC drivers having a debate about the speed capabilities of two power cars and what speed to run at. (Both retired in case anyone starts trying to cause trouble!) One was adamant that you could do 125 and the other 75. Both agreed though that they could easily brake normally from 125 and they were fantastic performers on their own, like rockets! Having only experienced opening up an 87 and a 90 running solo, I can imagine it was pretty entertaining.

They completely lock the rear coach to passengers between Holyhead and Helsby

 

[sw1ller]

How does the Mk3 set manage at the moment with Helsby? They currently lock out a 175 door when a double set stops there in the afternoon.

Incidentally, re the HSTs. I recall 2 XC drivers having a debate about the speed capabilities of two power cars and what speed to run at. (Both retired in case anyone starts trying to cause trouble!) One was adamant that you could do 125 and the other 75. Both agreed though that they could easily brake normally from 125 and they were fantastic performers on their own, like rockets! Having only experienced opening up an 87 and a 90 running solo, I can imagine it was pretty entertaining.

A 175 is a DMU (I know you know this, but it’s a fact) this DMU has an emergency access door in the cab. It’s not gangwayed but it has another door to make an escape. It’s different to a HST. the last emergency door is at the end of the last carriage. (Please correct me if I’m wrong. I have no idea other that pictures from god knows when) this is why I think 2+5/4 will be excluded.

 

[driver_m]

A 175 is a DMU (I know you know this, but it’s a fact) this DMU has an emergency access door in the cab. It’s not gangwayed but it has another door to make an escape. It’s different to a HST. the last emergency door is at the end of the last carriage. (Please correct me if I’m wrong. I have no idea other that pictures from god knows when) this is why I think 2+5/4 will be excluded.

Eh? Im not asking about why they do what they do. I’m just asking because there should already be something in place to deal with short platforms. I regularly go pass on the 175 double set and could reel off the announcements myself over the plan of action, however I’ve never passed on the mk3 set that calls there. I’m asking more out of curiosity based on my own previous mk3 experience when I had them on VT and had short platforms.

 

[sw1ller]

Eh? Im not asking about why they do what they do. I’m just asking because there should already be something in place to deal with short platforms. I regularly go pass on the 175 double set and could reel off the announcements myself over the plan of action, however I’ve never passed on the mk3 set that calls there. I’m asking more out of curiosity based on my own previous mk3 experience when I had them on VT and had short platforms.

Oh yeah, I mis-read that first line. Sorry. Thought you were on about a 4 car 175 for some reason.

 

[Chezni]

That looks very nice.

Is that a spelling mistake on the HST livery?

 

[driver_m]

Oh yeah, I mis-read that first line. Sorry. Thought you were on about a 4 car 175 for some reason.

Don’t they lock the back door on a 4 car? I don’t sign Helsby any more so I can’t vouch for actually how long it is now, and I couldn’t stop a 221 there anyway as it was only for diversions. Presumably if a 4 car DVT set gets a mk3 locked out as said earlier by someone else, a HST is going to have exactly the same issue unless it only runs as a 3 coach set which seems pointless. 4 car HST would make the most sense and be fairly flexible apart from somewhere like Shotton. Pity it’s not just easier to just let punters out of one local door at the short platforms. Sure the WC stops at Congleton used to do this back in the day when one stopped there to London regularly.

 

[anamyd]

Is that a spelling mistake on the HST livery?

yes, the "e" is missing from Trafnidiaeth

 

[Bikeman78]

It is also technically possible - but probably frowned upon by the TOCs - to get local door release on CDL stock by doing a quick press and release of the buttons on the panel, rather than holding down for 2secs or so.

I think that's what used to happen at Gilfach Fargoed when the hauled sets went to Rhymney. Only one door firs on the platform.

 

[hexagon789]

Am I right in thinking the HSTs for TfW have been ruled out now, or is that another baseless rumour?

 

[Railperf]

How does the Mk3 set manage at the moment with Helsby? They currently lock out a 175 door when a double set stops there in the afternoon.

Incidentally, re the HSTs. I recall 2 XC drivers having a debate about the speed capabilities of two power cars and what speed to run at. (Both retired in case anyone starts trying to cause trouble!) One was adamant that you could do 125 and the other 75. Both agreed though that they could easily brake normally from 125 and they were fantastic performers on their own, like rockets! Having only experienced opening up an 87 and a 90 running solo, I can imagine it was pretty entertaining.

I believe a 2+3 set is permitted to do 125mph, but any less than that would be the lower limit due to there not being enough brake force. Class 67's are also one of the few loco's that can also run with just a few coaches and still run at 100mph. I hear an 86 solo can do 0 to 60mph in around 12 secs. That is very lively.

 

[nat67]

I believe a 2+3 set is permitted to do 125mph, but any less than that would be the lower limit due to there not being enough brake force. Class 67's are also one of the few loco's that can also run with just a few coaches and still run at 100mph. I hear an 86 solo can do 0 to 60mph in around 12 secs. That is very lively.

I think you may find it s going to be A. 2+4 and 125mph minimum of load is 5 not load 3. that's why the GWR GTI sets are limited to 100mph with 2+4.