TfW to operate HSTs between Cardiff and Holyhead?

[krus_aragon]

Staff training aside, HSTs operated to and from Holyhead on a daily basis until 15 years ago (see http://www.penmorfa.com/Archive/eighteen.htm) but I don't think any of the 3 trains per day stabled at Holyhead.

 

[anamyd]

We foresee the introduction of Mark IV-based rakes on three daily Cardiff-Holyhead services (each way) from December, as announced at the start of the franchise.

The rumoured short-term introduction of HSTs (for the second half of this year) would take over another two Cardiff-Holyhead services (each way) and some other diagrams in North Wales, releasing 175s to cover PRM mods to the rest of the fleet.

So on the Marches, one would expect the Manchester services to remain 175-operated, but for most of the Holyhead services to switch to MkIV or HST operation.

thanks for the info re HSTs

 

[krus_aragon]

thanks for the info re HSTs

It's just re-phrasing what @158srule has told us.

 

[anamyd]

It's just re-phrasing what @158srule has told us.

maybe, but I probably missed it

 

[sw1ller]

Well if you’re going off the info I post you can be assured it’s reliwble no as up to date as possible as I’m involved in the planning of it!

HSTs would be fuelled at a Canton every day so would only need a short supply at night at Holyhead. HSTs are not a preferred option due to the amount of training required as additional train crew depots would need to be involved. The bigger probablility would be receiving 170s from Anglia earlier (summer) to cascade 150s off South Wales Mainline work to speed up PRM and WSP fitment. There will also be 8 x 142s moving from northern to TfW however this is dependant on Class 195 introduction which is being delayed further.

The 5 class 153s received from GWR will likely be kept in S Wales (Cardiff Bay and Cheltenham - Maesteg) as they have different lower power engines than the existing fleet which were fitted with updated engines back about 8 years ago (they’re about 80hp better)

When you say more depots will need training, are we talking drivers and guards. And are we talking Chester and Shrewsbury???

 

[craigybagel]

When you say more depots will need training, are we talking drivers and guards. And are we talking Chester and Shrewsbury???

If the info is genuine (and I still have my doubts but we'll see) you'd expect the easiest thing to do would be to only train those staff who currently sign LHCS - so drivers at Holyhead and the loco links at Cardiff and Crewe - plus the guards at Holyhead, Junction and Shrewsbury. I've heard talk amongst the drivers of it being a conversion course from 67s rather then a whole new course, and on the guards side it shouldn't be a whole lot of work to go from MKIIIa's to MKIII's. The guards were the reason I expected the HSTs to not be kept in Cardiff overnight - doing so would require Cardiff guards being trained, and that will take a while.

 

[krus_aragon]

If the info is genuine (and I still have my doubts but we'll see) you'd expect the easiest thing to do would be to only train those staff who currently sign LHCS - so drivers at Holyhead and the loco links at Cardiff and Crewe - plus the guards at Holyhead, Junction and Shrewsbury. I've heard talk amongst the drivers of it being a conversion course from 67s rather then a whole new course, and on the guards side it shouldn't be a whole lot of work to go from MKIIIa's to MKIII's. The guards were the reason I expected the HSTs to not be kept in Cardiff overnight - doing so would require Cardiff guards being trained, and that will take a while.

That's a well-reasoned explanation, but there will need to be some increase in the numbers signing LHCS come December anyway, when the new MkIV diagrams start (they'll each be overnighting in Cardiff and Holyhead alternate nights).

 

[craigybagel]

Indeed - some or all Cardiff guards will need to sign MkIVs it's true. However, they've got until December to sort that out. By the sounds of things, if HSTs are coming it'll be a lot sooner then that. At 2 days per guard, and at least 40 guards to train (unless they divide Cardiff depot up into more links, which may well happen but again will take time to negotiate. At present there are two links, the only difference being 4 day week or 5 day week - the routes and traction are otherwise identical. I believe at present the divide is about 40/50 between the 2 links), that's not going to be achievable any time soon.

I also suspect that training on MKIVs will be a fair bit simpler then on MKIIIs for a variety of reasons but I'll need to wait and see the training package before I have that confirmed

 

[paddyb6]

Hi all,
I've seen a post on Facebook by Kevin Jones and by another person that ex-GWR HSTs will run as additional trains alongside the 175s on Holyhead to Cardiff. From June 2019.

HST SET 1
0628 HHD CDF
1321 CDF HHD
1823 HHD CRE
2136 CRE HHD

HST SET 2
0805 HHD CDF
1521 CDF HHD
2032 HHD CTR
2256 CTR HHD

This has not yet been confirmed by any offical TfW source.
I, myself don't know if this is confirmed as well.

 

[nat67]

Hi all,
I've seen a post on Facebook by Kevin Jones and by another person that ex-GWR HSTs will run as additional trains alongside the 175s on Holyhead to Cardiff. From June 2019.

HST SET 1
0628 HHD CDF
1321 CDF HHD
1823 HHD CRE
2136 CRE HHD

HST SET 2
0805 HHD CDF
1521 CDF HHD
2032 HHD CTR
2256 CTR HHD

This has not yet been confirmed by any offical TfW source.
I, myself don't know if this is confirmed as well.

That's correct. I don't know which power cars or if it will be Angel or Porterbrook's.

 

[hexagon789]

Hi all,
I've seen a post on Facebook by Kevin Jones and by another person that ex-GWR HSTs will run as additional trains alongside the 175s on Holyhead to Cardiff. From June 2019.

HST SET 1
0628 HHD CDF
1321 CDF HHD
1823 HHD CRE
2136 CRE HHD

HST SET 2
0805 HHD CDF
1521 CDF HHD
2032 HHD CTR
2256 CTR HHD

This has not yet been confirmed by any offical TfW source.
I, myself don't know if this is confirmed as well.

Pretty much what I've heard from a number of sources. No word as to formation/length of sets. I've seen reference to everything from 2+3 to 2+8!

 

[Prestige15]

I know the HST are only temporary but hey...

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I know the HST are only temporary but hey...

View attachment 61604

That looks very nice.

 

[adrock1976]

Hi all,
I've seen a post on Facebook by Kevin Jones and by another person that ex-GWR HSTs will run as additional trains alongside the 175s on Holyhead to Cardiff. From June 2019.

HST SET 1
0628 HHD CDF
1321 CDF HHD
1823 HHD CRE
2136 CRE HHD

HST SET 2
0805 HHD CDF
1521 CDF HHD
2032 HHD CTR
2256 CTR HHD

This has not yet been confirmed by any offical TfW source.
I, myself don't know if this is confirmed as well.

Many thanks for posting the above, but could you please add a legend or provide an explanation as to where the trains are running from and to?

 

[Steamie Boxes]

Many thanks for posting the above, but could you please add a legend or provide an explanation as to where the trains are running from and to?

He mentions Holyhead and Cardiff in the first paragraph so that is where they will be found.
As for the codes
CDF- Cardiff
HHD- Holyhead
CRE- Crewe
CTR- Chester

 

[Bletchleyite]

That "flying dragon" logo is far better than the big T!

 

[gazthomas]

I know the HST are only temporary but hey...

View attachment 61604

Nice work!

 

[anamyd]

I know the HST are only temporary but hey...

View attachment 61604

oh wow, I didn't see this one coming

 

[hexagon789]

I know the HST are only temporary but hey...

View attachment 61604

I like it! The dragon is perfect.

Considering the fairly short use, I do wonder if TfW will bother to relivery them at all though.

 

[hexagon789]

Also, has there been any further word as to the length or formation of HST sets? 2+3 and 2+8 have been suggested somewhere; the former seems to short and the latter too long some how.

 

[sw1ller]

Also, has there been any further word as to the length or formation of HST sets? 2+3 and 2+8 have been suggested somewhere; the former seems to short and the latter too long some how.

Until something is officially confirmed by TfW, anything that anyone says will just be rumour. I’ve heard 4 different combinations in various crew rooms and 2+8 wasn’t in there so it’s now 5 different combinations.

There is someone here who’s said they’re directly involved with the deal so maybe they can shed some light.

 

[hexagon789]

Until something is officially confirmed by TfW, anything that anyone says will just be rumour. I’ve heard 4 different combinations in various crew rooms and 2+8 wasn’t in there so it’s now 5 different combinations.

There is someone here who’s said they’re directly involved with the deal so maybe they can shed some light.

Thanks for that. While I appreciate it's 'crew room hearsay', would you be able to say what the 4 combinations were out of curiosity?

 

[anamyd]

There is someone here who’s said they’re directly involved with the deal so maybe they can shed some light.

@158srule ...?

 

[The Prisoner]

Is there any actual evidence that this is going to happen?

 

[sw1ller]

Thanks for that. While I appreciate it's 'crew room hearsay', would you be able to say what the 4 combinations were out of curiosity?

Basically, everything in between what you’ve said. 2+3,4,5 & 7.

Any evidence that it’s happening? The right people in the crew room are talking, it’s not just something I’ve heard a random person saying.

I questioned a manager about them the other day and he didn’t dismiss the idea. He didn’t confirm it either. Make of that what you will.

 

[hexagon789]

Basically, everything in between what you’ve said. 2+3,4,5 & 7.

Any evidence that it’s happening? The right people in the crew room are talking, it’s not just something I’ve heard a random person saying.

I questioned a manager about them the other day and he didn’t dismiss the idea. He didn’t confirm it either. Make of that what you will.

2+3 would be interesting, nothing shorter than 2+4 has run/will run that I know of.

Well the 37s for Rhymney started out as rumours being neither confirmed nor denied by similar persons, and look where that has led...

I think in many respects it's lucky we have the HSTs about still to be able to be brought in as necessary like this, if we didn't then what would operators do?

 

[158820]

A reliable Gwr staff member on an other forum confirmed they are assisting tfw with hst introduction. (Doesn't mean it will actually happen of course)

 

[EE Andy b1]

So how long to train the links of Drivers needed for these LHCS workings at Holyhead and Cardiff?
About 2 weeks training for a driver for Class 43 and for handling.
If rumour is true they need to get there finger out and get training asap and not have a Scotrail farce, although that's on a different scale.

Great if it happens, and i would spend the money get the sets updated and keep them for a few years.

 

[Mollman]

2+3 would be interesting, nothing shorter than 2+4 has run/will run that I know of.

Well the 37s for Rhymney started out as rumours being neither confirmed nor denied by similar persons, and look where that has led...

I think in many respects it's lucky we have the HSTs about still to be able to be brought in as necessary like this, if we didn't then what would operators do?

Virgin XC did run a 2+2 once in place of a 158.

 

[anamyd]

Virgin XC did run a 2+2 once in place of a 158.

The power must have been immense! One power car for each carriage / 2250hp per carriage!!! The 2+4s on ScotRail and GWR are said to feel very powerful as it is!