Thameslink/ Class 700 Progress

[W230]

I think they said it is set at 23C in the winter and 18C in the summer but I can't remember now.

Like I said though, it can be changed by drivers. We've just been advised to leave it alone

 

[BelleIsle]

No HVAC system can ever satisfy everyone, just like in an office where someone will say they're freezing while someone else says they're boiling hot.

Slightly off topic, but this is one of the ways the Soviet space programme tested cosmonauts for compatability. The showers at the training facility were wired so that if you changed the temperature on one you changed it on all. It was discovered that if a group of people settled on a temperature then they would usually get on well in the crampt confines of a spacecraft for long durations. If one kept turning it down, one kept turning it back up again etc. then they would usually not get along.

I wonder how this would read across to commuters on a crush loaded service?

 

[Minstral25]

How is no driver a unit fault?

Is there enough drivers to run the new stock? It's all part of having a new unit to have staff to operate it! So whilst it may not be the physical train breaking down, it is the program to supply the trains that is.

When you have an exceptionally busy train that is cancelled 5 days in 7 (and 51 late arrival on one of the 2 days it actually ran) it creates a huge amount of personal hardship for the commuters involved, with almost an hour per day increase in commuting time for 5 days in 7. (For info, technically by timetable you can do it faster but practicality is that very few are able to go to East Croydon and board the next Thameslink as that train is top of the overcrowding list)

Thus they are entitled to know why they are being put through this misery - it's not as if they are having a great time with GTR at the moment anyway.

 

[JonathanH]

So 7:22 Brighton to Bedford fails again for the 5th time in 7 days - meaning that Redhill passengers again have their busiest train of the day cancelled and adding often over an hour to their daily commutes.
The other 700 at 6:34 from Redhill is also cancelled again - but that's a track defect not the stock sitting down
Not a good starting record for the 700's

How is no driver a unit fault?

The 0722 Brighton to Bedford (1W82) and the inbound working 0416 Bedford to Brighton (1W01) was shown as cancelled on the Thameslink website by about 6pm last night, well before any failure of a unit would have had an impact.

Since 25 July, according to RTT, it has run three times out of nine (and seems to be a difficult train to resource since the pool of available drivers has been restricted to those trained on 700s working at its departure time from Bedford):

Monday 25 July - ran broadly to time
Tuesday 26 July - traincrew cancellation to 1W01 / 1W82
Wednesday 27 July - traincrew cancellation to 1W01 / 1W82
Thursday 28 July - ran but picked up 5 minute delay at East Croydon
Friday 29 July - traincrew cancellation to 1W01 / 1W82

Monday 1 August - traincrew cancellation to 1W01 / 1W82
Tuesday 2 August - ran but caught up in signalling issues (52 minutes late at Blackfriars
Wednesday 3 August - 1W01 picked up delay on southbound journey, 1W82 cancelled throughout from Brighton
Thursday 4 August - traincrew cancellation to 1W01 / 1W82

Five traincrew cancellations and one train related issue.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Is there enough drivers to run the new stock? It's all part of having a new unit to have staff to operate it! So whilst it may not be the physical train breaking down, it is the program to supply the trains that is.

When you have an exceptionally busy train that is cancelled 5 days in 7 (and 51 late arrival on one of the 2 days it actually ran) it creates a huge amount of personal hardship for the commuters involved, with almost an hour per day increase in commuting time for 5 days in 7. (For info, technically by timetable you can do it faster but practicality is that very few are able to go to East Croydon and board the next Thameslink as that train is top of the overcrowding list)

Thus they are entitled to know why they are being put through this misery - it's not as if they are having a great time with GTR at the moment anyway.

And just to add to that, it is the only practical train from Redhill for quite a bit of London for people who are restricted to travelling in high peak by family matters. Cancellation of this service next week won't be very helpful given the reduction in other services through Redhill.

 

[Mordac]

http://www.networkrailmediacentre.c...rains-using-advanced-in-cab-signalling-system

The Thameslink Programme successfully tests new trains using advanced “in-cab” signalling system

Downloads

Wednesday 3 Aug 2016

London & South East

An advanced signalling system that will allow trains to travel every two to three minutes through central London was successfully tested using Govia Thameslink Railway’s new Siemens Class 700 trains for the first time.

The Thameslink Programme, part of Network Rail’s Railway Upgrade Plan to provide a bigger, better, more reliable railway for passengers and businesses, achieved another milestone in the early hours of Saturday morning as it successfully ran a Class 700 train through the central London “core” using European Train Control System (ETCS) Level 2 in-cab signalling.

In-cab signalling is required to allow trains to be driven automatically between St Pancras and Blackfriars stations, under driver supervision, in order to enable up to 24 trains to operate per hour from 2018. This was the first in a series of functional and operational tests planned over the next sixteen months to ensure that trains operate safely and efficiently.

Last year, Network Rail tested its in-cab infrastructure through central London using a Class 313 test train and in collaboration with Govia Thameslink Railway (GTR) and Siemens, tests have been run using a Class 700 train at the ETCS National Integration Facility. This weekend was, however, the first time that a Class 700 train has been tested in central London using the infrastructure it will run on in passenger service from 2018, providing more frequent, more reliable journeys for passengers.

Paul Bates, project director for Network Rail, said: “This is a significant milestone towards enabling the frequency of service that will keep London moving and provide better journeys through the heart of the capital. This success is a testament to the integrated and collaborative approach taken by GTR, Siemens and Network Rail, to achieve collective success.”

John Killeen, Head of Fleet Programmes for GTR, said: “Ultimately, ETCS will allow us to run our trains under automatic train operation at high frequencies through central London. This, in turn will create the capacity to run extra Thameslink trains to and from Peterborough and Cambridge, giving passengers fantastic new journey opportunities.”

Mark Ferrer, New Technology Director at Siemens Rail Automation, said: “The success of these trials reflects directly on the extremely close and effective collaboration between Network Rail, Siemens and GTR. The delivery of this ground-breaking system is also a clear demonstration of our ability to deliver the future digital railway, which will increasingly require the definition, development and delivery of these complex systems as the digital railway becomes ever more prevalent.”

Dave Hooper, Thameslink Programme Director, Siemens Rail Systems, said: “This is another key milestone achieved for the Thameslink Programme. Close collaboration between Siemens, Network Rail and GTR has been an essential ingredient to this success, as has the robust planning and preparation that helps make these achievements look simple, when in fact this is ground-breaking progress for ATO and ETCS service introduction in the UK. We are looking forward to delivering the rest of the programme successfully in the same professional manner with our industry partners.”

Overnight testing will continue in September, with the first trials of the Automatic Train Operation (ATO) system between St Pancras and Blackfriars. ATO, which enables the train to operate automatically through the “core”, was tested successfully at the ETCS National Integration Facility test site on the Hertford loop earlier this year.

The Thameslink Programme is due to take another step forward over the August bank holiday when two thirds of the new concourse is planned to reopen at London Bridge station, resulting in significant service changes for passengers. Passengers should check before they travel.

 

[SAPhil]

Having managed to catch the new trains on a couple of occasions when they weren't cancelled/late, I am of the opinion that the lack of armrests is the biggest problem! Not from a comfort point of view but simply as a way to restrict encroachment (accidental or otherwise) into the next seat. I've already felt squashed sitting next to someone slightly larger than me and things will only get worse in the winter months when everyone is wearing thick coats, etc!

I've yet to travel on one that is full and standing but I wonder if there is actually too much room. I feel unsafe standing unless I'm holding on to something (not someone ) and there seem to be large areas where this is not possible.

 

[JonathanH]

Not going well this evening by the looks of things (with information from the Thameslink website):

1W92 1559 Three Bridges to Bedford not running
This train will be cancelled.
This is due to a fault on this train

1W96 1635 Brighton to Bedford not running
This train will be cancelled.
This is due to a fault on this train

1B48 1732 Brighton to London Bridge not running
This train will be cancelled.
This is due to a fault on this train

1W45 1550 Bedford to Brighton lost 17 minutes at Flitwick and now 27 minutes late
This train has been delayed at Flitwick and is now 21 minutes late.
This train will no longer call at Luton Airport Parkway, Harpenden, Balcombe, Burgess Hill, Hassocks and Preston Park.
This is due to a fault on this train.

2W57 1720 Bedford to Three Bridges 7 minutes late leaving Bedford

Sad to see this. I'm hope it won't long before everything is sorted out.

 

[AM9]

It was OK for me today. Caught the 15:56 at City Thameslink (1W40 - 700110) to St Albans. Apart form being 5 minutes late throughout, the only other issue was that the displays weren't operating. The doors opened promptly at every station, (City, Farringdon, St Pancras, West Hampstead and St Albans) and it just touched 100mph passing Scratchwood.
Its amazing that so many posters here jump to conclusions and blame problems on actual train failures before they know what the cause was, when in fact most of the issues have been about staff availability and track/congestion issues. Maybe they have an agenda.

 

[jon0844]

What about other things? Have the toilet doors stuck yet (as I had on an almost brand new 377/5) or any buttons fallen off?

Sent from my D6603 using Tapatalk

 

[The Box Photter]

What about other things? Have the toilet doors stuck yet (as I had on an almost brand new 377/5) or any buttons fallen off?

Sent from my D6603 using Tapatalk

Those faults haven't shown up yet as Thameslink don't seem to have enough trained drivers to drive the things. What genius allowed all the 700-trained drivers to go on the same two-week package holiday to Magaluf then?

The 1635 Brighton - Bedford seems to be a wholly unsuitable train to be given over to class 700 workings as it's one of the trains that carries the heaviest peak loads from Blackfriars northwards (at 1752).

The previous Blackfriars to Bedford trains are 1736 (semi-fast) & 1740 (calls also at West Hampstead, Mill Hill, Elstree & Radlett) which hardly any regular long distance passengers get on. So the next available (8-car) northbound train that's of any use is the 1756. This train has had to soak up all the displaced passengers from the 1752 and yet Thameslink refuses to declassify 1st class.

So there you have it, the incompetent in charge of the unusable. A recipe for commuter anger & frustration.

Who's in charge and do they have any plan at all?

 

[asylumxl]

Who's in charge and do they have any plan at all?

The DfT and they have no intention of holding GoVia accountable for their abysmal performance.

As long GoVia and the DfT get the money they desire, nothing will change.

 

[jon0844]

It does seem from all the social media comments that most people don't fully appreciate that. I find it ironic that some are demanding the DfT gets DOR in charge - which would surely mean it being even easier to get the changes through, or certainly no different.

Sent from my D6603 using Tapatalk

 

[Bald Rick]

The 1635 Brighton - Bedford seems to be a wholly unsuitable train to be given over to class 700 workings as it's one of the trains that carries the heaviest peak loads from Blackfriars northwards (at 1752).

I'd say that makes it the most suitable. Assuming it runs of course. Which you have to assume is the intention of those running the service.

It being my normal train home has no bearing on my view. Honest.

 

[The Box Photter]

I'd say that makes it the most suitable. Assuming it runs of course. Which you have to assume is the intention of those running the service.

It being my normal train home has no bearing on my view. Honest.

I agree, as a crowd-shifter, a WORKING class 700 would fit the bill nicely for that train. Unfortunately GTR seems unable to deliver both a working class 700 and a working driver at the same time.

As a result, no train, no seats, no missing tables, no massive standing capacity, just a big hole in the timetable where a train should be.

 

[jon0844]

Sounds like it should become a Southern operated service.

 

[The Box Photter]

Sounds like it should become a Southern operated service.

There's nowhere for the guard to sit.

 

[jon0844]

There's nowhere for the guard to sit.

Wouldn't matter if the train isn't going to run anyway!

 

[Abpj17]

What about other things? Have the toilet doors stuck yet (as I had on an almost brand new 377/5) or any buttons fallen off?

Sent from my D6603 using Tapatalk

Went to the loo on a 700 for the first time today. I can't fault it - notably nice sliding door mechanism, sensible loo paper dispenser unlike the daft upside one.

 

[Class377/5]

Can't remember if this has been posted but the working for this Saturday. Please note this is a one off and no further weekend workings this month. Worth noting trains south of London to Brighton are expected to be very busy.

501 SO 06/08

5Y03 04+52 Jowett Sidings to Bedford
1W03 05.20 Bedford to Brighton
1W14 08.05 Brighton to Bedford
2W31 10.54 Bedford to Brighton
2W44 13.55 Brighton to Bedford
1W51 17.10 Bedford to Brighton
1W62 20.05 Brighton to Bedford
5Y62 22+45 Bedford to Jowett

Also first day in service for the 700s so far

700108 - 20/06/16
700109 - 21/06/16
700107 - 04/07/16
700114 - 04/07/16
700104 - 12/07/16
700112 - 20/07/16
700113 - 25/07/16
700102 - 29/07/16
700110 - 02/08/16

 

[YorkshireBear]

Saw them for the first time yesterday, saw three in total but never lucky enough to ride one. They certainly look the part! I saw 700110 and 700113.

I did experience the 387s for the first time though.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Can't remember if this has been posted but the working for this Saturday. Please note this is a one off and no further weekend workings this month. Worth noting trains south of London to Brighton are expected to be very busy.

501 SO 06/08

5Y03 04+52 Jowett Sidings to Bedford
1W03 05.20 Bedford to Brighton
1W14 08.05 Brighton to Bedford
2W31 10.54 Bedford to Brighton
2W44 13.55 Brighton to Bedford
1W51 17.10 Bedford to Brighton
1W62 20.05 Brighton to Bedford
5Y62 22+45 Bedford to Jowett

Also first day in service for the 700s so far

700108 - 20/06/16
700109 - 21/06/16
700107 - 04/07/16
700114 - 04/07/16
700104 - 12/07/16
700112 - 20/07/16
700113 - 25/07/16
700102 - 29/07/16
700110 - 02/08/16

Thank you. The diagram had already been posted but nice to have a reminder.

I am hoping for driver availability tomorrow as I'm hoping for my first ride...

 

[grid56126]

Had a quick spin on 700110 yesterday St Pancras to Bedford and thence home to Croydon. My first ride on one in public service.

Doors worked fine at every stop.

AC/DC change over was swift and nothing suggests it's happened other than a slight clunk in the panto coach. No shutting down and starting up of auxiliaries (etc) like 377s or silly beeping / lights out on 319s

Acceleration when we went slow to fast North of Kentish Town was particularly impressive. It was noticeable that the driver was shutting off for neutral sections and coasting. The breaker noise is still quite loud on these, though less so than the 377/5s were. South Bound the (different) driver was being a little cautious stopping, such that we went out fast line and left Luton and Harpenden at exactly the same time as a pair of 319s on the Up Slow, but despite us "beating them" they were pulling in to the stops before us. I am not criticising the driver in any way for this, until you know a unit's capabilities you are going to be professional and they need to stop these big train accurately for correct door release.

Air con was perfect for me (Subjective).

Seat pitch perfect for me (Subjective).

Ride for me was good in the most part. I moved between motor coaches and non motor coaches (not least as it's so easy to do, even with luggage and the train was empty so I didn't look weird! - well I did but nobody saw me being weird). I sat over bogies and middle of coaches and to be honest didn't have any issues. The only place I found the ride a bit weird was on the Up Moorgate just after Kentish Town (heading into St Pancras) where there was some quite obvious lateral movement. I haven't been over this bit of line for a good 6 months so don't know if that's poor track now?

I was carrying a wheeled case that is too big for taking on a plane as hand luggage but not "that" big and it fitted easily on the overhead rack without any fear of falling off. This impressed me actually as too many other trains struggle even with hand baggage sized luggage. The downward slope toward the body helps it stay in place and the glass helps you remember its there! Some Airport passengers were noted using the larger space to stow BIG cases easily.

PIS out on whole unit on both trips. That for me was probably the most disappointing aspect. it's the sop window after all!

No working hand drier in North end three toilets (I wasn't testing, just walked through and tried them on my way after first failure for comparison).

 

[jon0844]

There's a button for the drier isn't there?

 

[Hadders]

There's a button for the drier isn't there?

Yes it is a button but if you're more than 5' tall you can't see it!

 

[D365]

There's a button for the drier isn't there?

Yes it is a button but if you're more than 5' tall you can't see it!

Assuming that it hasn't fallen off...

Wait, this isn't Bombardier is it.

 

[grid56126]

There is indeed a button for the driers. All three I tried were intact, all three I tried never worked.

 

[jon0844]

Hmm. Three not working sounds odd. Perhaps something had tripped to knock them all out? Maybe linked to the screens problem?

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Yes it is a button but if you're more than 5' tall you can't see it!

If you are talking about the disabled loo then are the driers at wheelchair level?

 

[Class377]

Are there any diagrams for this Sunday at all please? I'm taking a rare trip on the Thameslink line and wouldn't mind slightly adjusting my timings to get a chance to travel on the 700s.

 

[Hadders]

If you are talking about the disabled loo then are the driers at wheelchair level?

Definitely in the dsiabled toilet but I think it was the same arrangement in the non-disabled ones as well.

What I don't understand is why the water is on a sensor but the hand drier isn't.