Joe Paxton
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Ouch, so they do.
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Trainline- journey to printer paid for but required to buy a separate ticket
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Ouch, so they do.
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That's unfortunate and something that should be raised with Royal Mail as consistently missing their delivery targets has serious implications for their operating licence. Doubly so given that bulk users such as TheTrainline have tighter targets than residential service users.
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MarlowDonkey
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Whenever I've used a TOC website to buy tickets, they have invariably turned up the next day with a Crawley postmark regardless of TOC. Where do Trainline tickets come from?
I say it as I saw it yesterday. TOD the only option offered for travel on Monday.
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As per TheTrainline's website, they have a self-imposed cutoff of 3pm for next day delivery:
From experience, the cutoff for tickets booked on account is later than that (I think 5pm but that's going by memory). This is to give themselves some time to get the tickets printed and in the mail by last post. However, I have ordered tickets after 3pm on a Friday and received them on the Monday. That's why they say 'within' two working days, rather than 'on Tuesday'.
Not much point. We're a rural area and they simply respond that they're doing the best they can. Postal delivery arrives anytime between 10am and 4pm.depending on workload, operative and ,it seems, wind direction..
That's irrelevant from any discussion of Trainline deliveries as they're either second class or special delivery (the only Royal Mail service with pre 1pm delivery guarantees).
Wallsendmag
Established Member
A lot of TOCs use the same fulfilment company.
Rich McLean
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Bottom line is you pay twice in the OPs situation then put in a refund claim for the now unused portion of the ticket bought via the trainline. As long as you can prove a portion is unused then trainline should refund you the difference.
I have done this in the past and my sister also does this on a few occasions when TVMs are broken and paying the single fare due to the guard to the interchange station. It takes a few weeks for the refunds to process but she gets her money back. So in the long run you are not being charged twice.
I have done this in the past and my sister also does this on a few occasions when TVMs are broken and paying the single fare due to the guard to the interchange station. It takes a few weeks for the refunds to process but she gets her money back. So in the long run you are not being charged twice.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Though rarely is the unused part of the full ticket as expensive as the additional single.
Rich McLean
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323235
Established Member
This thread is quite possibly the most bizarre I have ever seen for a while. As far as I am concerned it is not the passengers concern if there is no facilities to collect a ticket before boarding if they have bought online. I often buy tickets online before travelling to get cashback and collect them at the destination or en-route and get no issues from anyone.
I cannot believe that Merseyrail are attempting to prosecute for this and completely agree with the OP fighting it and not paying up and am extremely surprised at some of the views on here.
As far as i'm concerned if passengers buy before boarding and the facilities are not upto scratch then the TOC should not have a leg to stand on and right now I believe Merseyrail should not even be operating a Penalty Fare Scheme either.
We are in an age where people have busy lives and we should not have person x who can buy online and collect at the station but person y has to go 10 miles down the line in his own time because the train company cannot offer TOD or allow them to travel for no extra charge to collect a ticket they csn't provide facilities for.
I cannot believe that Merseyrail are attempting to prosecute for this and completely agree with the OP fighting it and not paying up and am extremely surprised at some of the views on here.
As far as i'm concerned if passengers buy before boarding and the facilities are not upto scratch then the TOC should not have a leg to stand on and right now I believe Merseyrail should not even be operating a Penalty Fare Scheme either.
We are in an age where people have busy lives and we should not have person x who can buy online and collect at the station but person y has to go 10 miles down the line in his own time because the train company cannot offer TOD or allow them to travel for no extra charge to collect a ticket they csn't provide facilities for.
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221129
Established Member
Then you have been very lucky. Merseyrail are well within their rights to prosecute. You MUST have your ticket to travel. It's not that hard a concept to grasp.
323235
Established Member
I'm not lucky, it's the norm round here because the TOC say I should buy before boarding online or on a mobile so it isn't my problem if they don't have anywhere to deliver if I do what their campaign says. Barrier staff are equally fine with it.
Luckily we are getting two ticket machines soon anyway.
I really don't agree with that sentiment at all, you can only make these kinds of rules if you provide the facilities for ticket collection. Merseyrail are well known for being heavy handed and unreasonable.
I wish the OP the best of luck and hope they argue the lack of collection facilities as much as possible and the court sees sense as has happened with unreasonable prosecutions before with Merseyrail and CrossCountry.
I would be grareful if you let me know personally how this goes by PM if possible as I believe this is a grossly unfair case.
Luckily we are getting two ticket machines soon anyway.
I really don't agree with that sentiment at all, you can only make these kinds of rules if you provide the facilities for ticket collection. Merseyrail are well known for being heavy handed and unreasonable.
I wish the OP the best of luck and hope they argue the lack of collection facilities as much as possible and the court sees sense as has happened with unreasonable prosecutions before with Merseyrail and CrossCountry.
I would be grareful if you let me know personally how this goes by PM if possible as I believe this is a grossly unfair case.
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Gareth Marston
Established Member
One system approach? But we're in the fragmented railway remember. You can buy walk on singles from some TOC's at 50% of the return price and other TOC's at 10 p less than the return price.
train line don't operate trains or undertake revenue protection and make the books balance, they exist solely to make as much profit possible for their shareholders which are a hedge fund. The OP is collatoral damage and all the other folk who use them mainly buying walk on fares with extras added on naively believing there getting a discount by buying online are taken for granted. What has Trainline done to endure their tickets are able to be collected by their customers? Answer nothing as they don't want to spend £.
Sorry, but it is the passenger's responsibility to ensure that they are able to collect tickets bought online before travel. While some TOCs and even some guards at some TOCs might allow the concession of collecting en-route, they are under *NO* obligation to do so.
Tetchytyke
Veteran Member
Merseyrail provide facilities for buying tickets. The OP chose to walk past these facilities, hence the summons.
Are Trainline's hedge fund backers investing in TOD terminals at every single station in the UK? No? Of course they're not. They're happy to part fools from their money though.
323235
Established Member
Yes and because it has no benefit to their revenue as they don't operate a ticket buying website they choose not to have TOD even though it is in the interests of the wider passengers who travel from Merseyrail to destinations across the rail network.
National Rail are quite happy to give TheTrainline.com accreditation in the full knowledge that they won't invest in any facilities and Merseyrail are part of the organisation behind that.
National Rail are quite happy to give TheTrainline.com accreditation in the full knowledge that they won't invest in any facilities and Merseyrail are part of the organisation behind that.
Neither do travel agents, American Express Travel Services, TrainSplit.com, Raileasy, etc. Don't really see the point you're trying to make.
323235
Established Member
Exactly so the point that was made about trainline not funding TOD machines does not have any real significance either
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I think you have me confused with someone else.
Gareth Marston
Established Member
Of course is we had BR or BR Ltd there'd be one website and one policy regardless of geography.
With a fragmented system your going to situations like this as players are no financially incentivized.
With a fragmented system your going to situations like this as players are no financially incentivized.
philthetube
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While I understand the rules I cannot see why there needs to be a difference between a person boarding a train without a ticket because there are no purchasing facilities available and one where no collection facilities are available.
Maybe sales of non discounted tickets should not happen from stations with no facilities, almost all advances then would require a change of train, and so the option to collect tickets. Admittedly there would be some holes but not many.
Maybe sales of non discounted tickets should not happen from stations with no facilities, almost all advances then would require a change of train, and so the option to collect tickets. Admittedly there would be some holes but not many.
Joe Paxton
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I would suggest that if Merseysiders want things to change they lobby Merseyrail (the TOC), and also Merseytravel (the executive body), the Merseytravel Committee of the Liverpool City Region Combined Authority and the new LCR Metro Mayor.
fireftrm
Member
To be fair some railway companies do allow this, in the same way that not all bus companies, or music venues do. Rather a pointless argument. Of course some bus companies won't accept anything other than a card you have to buy off their organisation, or a contactless bank card - which works really well for the casual visitor, or tourist.... Now back to the point...or please don't as this has been done to death!
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Increasingly they don't. Smart card, mobile and electronic tickets are available on an ever-growing number of routes.
Of course some bus companies won't accept anything other than a card you have to buy off their organisation, or a contactless bank card - which works really well for the casual visitor, or tourist.... Now back to the point...or please don't as this has been done to death!
Is this TfL, or do other bus companies operate like this too?
In TfL's case you can buy Oyster cards at thousands of shops not owned by TfL, and paper travelcards can be bought at rail stations as well.
Why should every station have a TVM for collection of online tickets ?
Surely this would increase the price of tickets. A station which has as little use such as 10 people a week using it would require a substantial investment to buy, install and maintain it for little use. Most TVM's cost at least £60000 upwards each. To have two at every station, wow that's alot of money.
Better to invest on infrastructure to reduce delays and improve stations and carriages than TVM's.
Is the taxpayer going to subsidise this ?
Hence it is the retailers responsibilty to ensure there are facilities for a TOD thats why they ask for the customer to state a station to collect the ticket.
Surely this would increase the price of tickets. A station which has as little use such as 10 people a week using it would require a substantial investment to buy, install and maintain it for little use. Most TVM's cost at least £60000 upwards each. To have two at every station, wow that's alot of money.
Better to invest on infrastructure to reduce delays and improve stations and carriages than TVM's.
Is the taxpayer going to subsidise this ?
Hence it is the retailers responsibilty to ensure there are facilities for a TOD thats why they ask for the customer to state a station to collect the ticket.
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