Transpennine woes and a moan...

[SuperNova]

I agree when it came to the appointments. The former MD at Avanti was a “good time guvnor” who couldn’t manage his team or his staff when times got rougher and the former MD at TPE should never, ever have been appointed to an MD’s role - he was totally unsuitable to be given that kind of position.

The problem for TPE now is they have a good MD but he hasn’t been given enough resources to sort out the problems in a timely fashion and the lack of a RDW agreement is piling the misery on.

Questionable. I'm not sure a 'good MD' would've proceeded with the timetable change in just over a week.

 

[Bald Rick]

Questionable. I'm not sure a 'good MD' would've proceeded with the timetable change in just over a week.

That decision was taken months ago.

 

[Watershed]

That decision was taken months ago.

A decision to change course could have been taken at any point up until a couple of weeks ago, when the diagrams started to be consulted on.

 

[Bald Rick]

A decision to change course could have been taken at any point up until a couple of weeks ago, when the diagrams started to be consulted on.

not so.

 

[Tomnick]

A decision to change course could have been taken at any point up until a couple of weeks ago, when the diagrams started to be consulted on.

The diagrams, the very last part of the puzzle, will have been out for consultation for many weeks now? We were looking at ours in September.

 

[Killingworth]

TPE's woes with EMR's on top have made for mayhem today between Sheffield and Manchester. Casual rail users must be wondering what the *** is going on.

Only 8 TPE services westbound* and none from EMR. Northern put out 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6 car trains in attempts to cope. I saw the 14.14 arrive at Dore, 3 car and rammed full; https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:W41548/2022-12-02/detailed#allox_id=0

A lady in an electric wheelchair was in the first carriage, with luggage. The guard had to ask other passengers with luggage to get out so he could get to and deploy the ramp, see the lady and wheeled case out of the train, stow the ramp, exit himself and reload the passengers from the platform. 4 minutes delay there, rising to 6 by Piccadilly, presumably due to those struggling to board on their way into Manchester.

As far as I could tell the majority of those aboard were smiling and taking this experience in good part, a strange camaraderie of the dumped upon! But it really shouldn't be getting to this.



*One of two planned Nova 3 ECS trains ran - it's high time they were in service, training having started on this route over a year ago.

 

[Iskra]

A few alterations on the South route today:

TPE Planned Alterations 02/12/2022

South Route

1B59 03:25 Sheffield - Man Picc CAN
1B67 06:24 Cleethorpes - Man Picc CAN
1B71 08:24 Cleethorpes - Man Picc CAN
1B79 12:24 Cleethorpes - Man Picc CAN
1B85 15:24 Cleethorpes - Man Picc CAN
1B87 16:24 Cleethorpes - Man Picc CAN
1B89 17:24 Cleethorpes - Man Picc CAN
1B91 18:24 Cleethorpes- Man Picc TERM at SHF
1B93 19:24 Cleethorpes - Man Picc TERM at SHF

1B64 05:56 Man Air - Cleethorpes SRT Man Picc
1B72 10:18 Man Picc - Cleethorpes CAN
1B74 11:18 Man Picc - Cleethorpes CAN
1B82 15:18 Man Picc - Cleethorpes SRT at SHF
1B88 18:18 Man Picc - Cleethorpes CAN
1B90 19:18 Man Picc - Cleethorpes CAN
1B94 20:45 Man Air - Cleethorpes TERM at MAN
1B96 22:20 Man Picc - Doncaster CAN

TPE's woes with EMR's on top have made for mayhem today between Sheffield and Manchester. Casual rail users must be wondering what the *** is going on.

Only 8 TPE services westbound* and none from EMR. Northern put out 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6 car trains in attempts to cope. I saw the 14.14 arrive at Dore, 3 car and rammed full; https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:W41548/2022-12-02/detailed#allox_id=0

A lady in an electric wheelchair was in the first carriage, with luggage. The guard had to ask other passengers with luggage to get out so he could get to and deploy the ramp, see the lady and wheeled case out of the train, stow the ramp, exit himself and reload the passengers from the platform. 4 minutes delay there, rising to 6 by Piccadilly, presumably due to those struggling to board on their way into Manchester.

As far as I could tell the majority of those aboard were smiling and taking this experience in good part, a strange camaraderie of the dumped upon! But it really shouldn't be getting to this.

View attachment 124681

*One of two planned Nova 3 ECS trains ran - it's high time they were in service, training having started on this route over a year ago.

As we are getting to a point of desperation, is it actually time to cancel (or pause until January when the railway is quieter) the 68+MK5 program on South Transpennine, in order that some doubled up 185’s might run using those drivers and instructors instead.

I do wonder if the residents of the locality of Scarborough station realise quite how far the contagion of their misery has spread.

 

[johnnychips]

I am always at Sheffield station at 0645 during the week, and to think ‘oh only 3/5 Sheffield-Manchester 0707 trains cancelled this week, that could be worse’ shows what a state we are in.

Edit: fortunately I am going in the other direction to Doncaster and catch the 0655 Northern towards Scarborough. But if the following 0709 TPE is cancelled (as it has been twice this week) they advise you to catch the 0655, which is great if…

 

[Killingworth]

I am always at Sheffield station at 0645 during the week, and to think ‘oh only 3/5 Sheffield-Manchester 0707 trains cancelled this week, that could be worse’ shows what a state we are in.

Edit: fortunately I am going in the other direction to Doncaster and catch the 0655 Northern towards Scarborough. But if the following 0709 TPE is cancelled (as it has been twice this week) they advise you to catch the 0655, which is great if…

The 7.07 from Sheffield is the 7.14 from Dore that used to load 100+ at Dore. I hadn't the confidence to book it 10 days ago, or the following 8.15, and took the following Northern service, as did quite a large number of others, some resigned ex-TPE regulars. On that day both TPE services ran. It's a lottery.

 

[Watershed]

not so.

Perhaps not politically, or in terms of the permission needed from the DfT. But practically speaking - yes. The moment of no return wasn't passed until a month or so ago.

The diagrams, the very last part of the puzzle, will have been out for consultation for many weeks now? We were looking at ours in September.

You would be surprised.

 

[Bald Rick]

Perhaps not politically, or in terms of the permission needed from the DfT. But practically speaking - yes. The moment of no return wasn't passed until a month or so ago.

That depends on the outcome desired. I mean, you could still stop it now, but it would be an absolute disaster. If it had been switched off any time in the past couple of months, it would have been worse than what will happen a week on Sunday. Don’t forget Northern’s role in this!

 

[jfollows]

The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...-stark-north-south-divide-railway-reliability) builds on its report last week (Transpennine woes and a moan...) (post #955) that TPE is routinely cancelling up to 60 services before 10pm each night, blaming staff sickness and driver training. It contrasts with most other operating companies, for example Cross Country which says that it doesn't support "P-coding" (the term for these short-term cancellations) for train crew shortages, business-as-usual. TPE, on the other hand, cancelled 19% of its trains in November, the majority of which (13.8% of its services but 73% of its cancellations) were "P-code cancellations".
So TPE is playing games with figures, making its cancellations looking significantly less bad than they are according to ORR performance figures, and generally misleading its passengers.

This game is something many of us have been aware of for a while now, thanks to contributors to this forum, but it appears to be getting visibility in more mainstream media now.

Rail transport

Stark north-south divide in railway reliability, UK figures reveal

Labour demands government close loophole of pre-emptive cancellations

Helen Pidd North of England editor

Sat 3 Dec 2022 08.00 GMT

The stark regional divide in railway reliability across Britain has been laid bare, with figures showing 20% of TransPennine Express (TPE) trains were cancelled in November, compared with 2.3% on one commuter line in and out of London and 4.5% on the London Overground.

Exclusive figures obtained by the Guardian show the true level of disruption suffered by passengers because they include pre-emptive cancellations made by 10pm the night before, which are not counted in government statistics.

Louise Haigh, the shadow transport secretary, demanded the government close this loophole and begin withdrawing contracts from failing operators.

TPE, which runs trains in the north of England and Scotland, has the highest cancellation rate of any British train operating company, at 19%-30% each week. It routinely cancels up to 60 services the night before, blaming high levels of staff sickness and a driver training programme. These so-called “P-code” cancellations, which must be made by 10pm the night before, disappear from the timetable and are not recorded by the Office of Rail and Road, which compiles railway performance data.

P-codes were designed to be used in circumstances beyond an operator’s control – for example, overrunning engineering work or a landslide blocking a line. But some rail companies – with TPE the worst offender – use the code when they do not have enough staff, misleading customers about the true reliability of their services.

Greater Anglia, which runs services from London to Essex and the east of England, cancelled 2.3% of trains in November. It also operates the Stansted Express, which recorded 3.7% cancellations. Neither made any P-coded cancellations.

C2C, which has the franchise for the London to Essex line, cancelled 285 trains in the same period, equating to 3.54%.

All three companies said they did not use P-codes for cancellations that were their fault. East Midlands Railway, which cancelled 2.9% of trains in November, said it had made just five P-coded cancellations because of short-term train crew sickness.

London Overground cancelled 4.5% of trains in November. All but a handful of those cancellations were made on the day, rather than using the P-code.

Train companies serving the north of England have cancelled the most trains in recent weeks, the Guardian has learned. TPE cancelled one in five trains (19%) in November. Most of those (13.8%) were P-code cancellations. During the half-term week beginning 23 October TPE cancelled 30% of all trains.

A TPE spokesperson said the company was “extremely sorry” for a service that had “fallen short of what our customers, and our stakeholders expect and demand”. It blamed “the combined impact of prolonged higher-than-usual sickness levels and an unprecedented driver training burden – caused by Covid and additional requirements placed upon us by the December 2022 timetable changes and the TransPennine route upgrade”.

Grand Central, which operates between Bradford and London, cancelled 15.7% of trains in November, including P-codes. It said its figures were skewed by strikes in the first half of the month.

CrossCountry, which runs trains from Aberdeen right down to Cornwall, cancelled 14% of all services – 972 – in November and said it did not P-code for train crew shortages. “CrossCountry do not support P-Coding for a business-as-usual day, as that makes the train ‘disappear’ from retail systems leaving the customer confused,” a spokesperson said.

Northern Rail, which was taken over by the government in March 2020, said that between 16 October and 12 November it cancelled 7% of total services. Its on-the-day cancellation rate was 4.8% (2,418 services out of about 50,000). A further 1,252 services were either removed or amended as part of planned cancellations or service amendments because of “absence with fully trained train crew”, a spokesperson said.

David Sidebottom, the director of the passenger watchdog Transport Focus, demanded greater transparency in performance data.

He said: “We’re acutely aware of the impacts that cancellations have on passengers – especially if they are at short notice. We’re uncomfortable that trains can be removed from the timetable as late as 10pm the day before they should have run and then don’t count as a cancellation in reliability data.

“We are pressing for greater transparency here, as well of course for train companies to keep focusing on running trains on time and not having cancellations.”

Avanti West Coast cancelled 7.7% of services in the four weeks from 16 October, based on the vastly reduced timetable it implemented in August. It did not use any P-codes.

Haigh said the government must close the loophole that meant P-coded cancellations did not show up in official statistics.

The Labour MP said: “This loophole allows operators to hide the true scale of the rail crisis across the north – it must be changed. It would be scandalous if performance payments were being awarded on the back of this phoney data.

“Enough is enough – passengers have been taken for a ride for too long. It’s time the government hold these failing operators to account, and without urgent improvement, begin withdrawing the contract.”

A Department for Transport spokesperson said: “The government is investing billions into northern transport and working closely with train operators to swiftly recruit new drivers and put long term solutions in place so passengers can travel confidently without disruption. The transport secretary met with northern mayors on Wednesday to discuss the current challenges.”

 

[londonmidland]

Another poor day on the South route, with the trains that are running being short formed. Leading to overcrowding and subsequently leaving stations late.

 

[kels430]

They’ve announced “disruptions on all lines due to overcrowding” now.

 

[Parallel]

I saw a 6 car 185 roll into Manchester earlier absolutely full to bursting, and that wasn’t even short formed!

 

[NorthOxonian]

I saw a 6 car 185 roll into Manchester earlier absolutely full to bursting, and that wasn’t even short formed!

I was on an early morning train from Newcastle to Manchester this morning - not one I'd expect to be that busy but it was pretty much full with some people standing from Huddersfield. I can definitely imagine the later services were rammed.

 

[trainophile]

People complaining on Twitter about toilets on one train locked out of use and children crying and wetting themselves. Horrific. Anyone who even considers using TPE at this stage must be out of their minds.

 

[175001]

Another poor day on the South route, with the trains that are running being short formed. Leading to overcrowding and subsequently leaving stations late.

Northern have been able to strengthen one Hope Valley diagram to 6 today. Unfortunately we're short of working 195s at the moment

 

[Foxcover]

Per RTT all the TPE Cleethorpes-Piccadillys were 3-car 185s until late afternoon - does anyone know specifically why not double units? I know there can be different reasons eg getting them off depot, maintenance etc - but what exactly was the 185 fleet doing today? The overcrowding looks to have been atrocious.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Per RTT all the TPE Cleethorpes-Piccadillys were 3-car 185s until late afternoon - does anyone know specifically why not double units? I know there can be different reasons eg getting them off depot, maintenance etc - but what exactly was the 185 fleet doing today? The overcrowding looks to have been atrocious.

Given all the stock TPE has and the amount its costing in leasing charges its a bloomin disgrace that this is happening and should be called out in parliament like Avanti was.

 

[RuddA]

People complaining on Twitter about toilets on one train locked out of use and children crying and wetting themselves. Horrific. Anyone who even considers using TPE at this stage must be out of their minds.

Just saw this article online. The type of train caught my eye.

Rail passengers' fury as children 'wet themselves' after toilets locked on overcrowded trains

New figures show that TransPennine Express cancelled a fifth of its services in November

inews.co.uk

 

[NorthWestRover]

Good news. Got my First Class Club 55 jaunt this Saturday...watch this space...

All went swimmingly. The 08.43 Wigan to Glasgow ran to time. A good day was had in Glasgow. The 17.09 to Preston left on time, was delayed by 20 minutes cos of Avanti in front being held at Penrith awaiting police. However, my connection at Preston was therefore reduced from 25 minutes to 5. Nice. All round a good day. £36 first class return is such good value.

 

[yorksrob]

Just saw this article online. The type of train caught my eye.

Rail passengers' fury as children 'wet themselves' after toilets locked on overcrowded trains

New figures show that TransPennine Express cancelled a fifth of its services in November

inews.co.uk

Even single 185's have two toilets, so presumably these are tanking issues ?

 

[Halish Railway]

Just saw this article online. The type of train caught my eye.

Rail passengers' fury as children 'wet themselves' after toilets locked on overcrowded trains

New figures show that TransPennine Express cancelled a fifth of its services in November

inews.co.uk

Didn't know that TPE operated VIRMs. Presumably a large part of the TRU budget will go into enlarging the loading gauge to accommodate these.

 

[Watershed]

Per RTT all the TPE Cleethorpes-Piccadillys were 3-car 185s until late afternoon - does anyone know specifically why not double units? I know there can be different reasons eg getting them off depot, maintenance etc - but what exactly was the 185 fleet doing today? The overcrowding looks to have been atrocious.

It's been explained several times previously. It's mostly caused by shifts where drivers takes units on/off depot not being covered. This results in the other diagrams having to be shortformed to avoid cancellations, and ensure units still cycle as required for maintenance/fuelling.

As with any fleet, there are also occasional unit failures or technical faults, or there may be a request for a unit to be taken off its booked 'cycle' to assist with maintenance (e.g. to get it back in time for its next exam). However, the lack of driver resource and (perhaps understandable) reluctance of most drivers to show goodwill to help out with resultant issues means that again, the only solution other than cancellation is e.g. for a service from Hull arriving into Piccadilly to be split into two.

There are also various operational limitations which don't help, such as the lack of an authorised walking route at certain locations where double sets would need to be reversed in order to address shortforms. There is rarely a spare second driver available to allow 'double manning' to work around this.

Obviously from the passenger's perspective none of this matters - these all seem like 'excuses', or at best poor planning. But it's difficult to see how TPE could realistically do much better, given the industrial relations climate and the resources which the government is giving it.

 

[Bletchleyite]

A start would be a simplified emergency timetable with units going off depot as 6 car and staying 6 car all day. They have got stock coming out of their ears.

I don't get what's hard about it. Avanti now have a timetable they can mostly operate.

 

[Watershed]

A start would be a simplified emergency timetable with units going off depot as 6 car and staying 6 car all day. They have got stock coming out of their ears.

I don't get what's hard about it. Avanti now have a timetable they can mostly operate.

It's easy to say - but much harder to get over the line when you consider the many stakeholders who will each have their own views on such a timetable.

 

[Bald Rick]

The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...-stark-north-south-divide-railway-reliability) builds on its report last week (Transpennine woes and a moan...) (post #955) that TPE is routinely cancelling up to 60 services before 10pm each night, blaming staff sickness and driver training. It contrasts with most other operating companies, for example Cross Country which says that it doesn't support "P-coding" (the term for these short-term cancellations) for train crew shortages, business-as-usual. TPE, on the other hand, cancelled 19% of its trains in November, the majority of which (13.8% of its services but 73% of its cancellations) were "P-code cancellations".
So TPE is playing games with figures, making its cancellations looking significantly less bad than they are according to ORR performance figures, and generally misleading its passengers.

This game is something many of us have been aware of for a while now, thanks to contributors to this forum, but it appears to be getting visibility in more mainstream media now.

to say it’s a north south divide is utter rubbish. GTR have been masters of this for years.

 

[AL1]

Reading the new timetable booklet for December 11th onwards, the helpful route map shows the TPE South Network prior to December 11 I.e Cleethorpes to Piccadilly and the Airport.

Now given the restructure of the timetable with this service heading to Liverpool, I would have expected this map to be updated. Hopefully, before the new timetable comes into being , this will be updated.

I do wonder whether this is a simple omission, or symptom of a wider malaise.

 

[route101]

Does the TPE 802 between Edinburgh and Manchester run at weekends?