[I had a ticket] for the 13.37pm ... But somehow missed it and got on the 13.51pm
[I found out] my ticket was for an earlier train, which was 10mins ago
I was meant to travel on the 14.35pm and got on the 14.38pm ( 3 minutes apart )
somehow missed [the train]
I asked an inspector where the train to hull was [thus being pointed to the wrong train when the journey involved changing at Doncaster]
I wasn't sure where to go so I asked an inspector, who looked at my ticket.
Well, I'm going to have to say that given the OP has been told that there is now no option but to appear in Court, presumably as all attempts at settlement have failed, I can't quite see how this forum can be of assistance, unless there is a technical angle we've overlooked.
I presume the focus would now be mitigation - if the OP can provide convincing information that they asked for the wrong train, and subsequently were pointed in the wrong direction, I presume they will be looked upon more favourably. If the OP can also prove that they were willing to pay the fare due but defaulted for factors outside their control, rather than simply hoping it would go away, I suspect the non-payment will not stand against them.
Sadly the OP does not seem to be able to provide a consistent account.
I presume the focus would now be mitigation - if the OP can provide convincing information that they asked for the wrong train, and subsequently were pointed in the wrong direction, I presume they will be looked upon more favourably. If the OP can also prove that they were willing to pay the fare due but defaulted for factors outside their control, rather than simply hoping it would go away, I suspect the non-payment will not stand against them.
Sadly the OP does not seem to be able to provide a consistent account.
I don't think there has been any fines in the legal sense, which would have required a court case to have been concluded with a guilty verdict. It seems that bebu was issued with two or more Unpaid Fares Notice which he/she didn't, couldn't, or wouldn't pay. Additional sums have been demanded in respect of administration fees.
If it is the case that the alleged offences occurred in May 2012, would it not be out of time for the Train Operating Company to issue criminal proceedings?
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Also for reference, here's the previous thread. Perhaps a moderator might be good enough to merge them and reopen the last one.
I honestly couldnt afford the fee, as I had true mitigating circumstances. As the divorce I went through and denial of contact with my daughter did my head in. Which am pulling through now. I guess I will have to take these facts along with my previous bank statements to the courts.
Unfortunately, I am still without adequate understanding to be able to give the most successful advice.I suspect only DaveNewcastle can be of any assistance here.
Yes, indeed!I presume the focus would now be mitigation
I don't think you would make a very good Defendant-in-person.OK my questions now, If when I appear in court. What do i expect and what do I say ?
Plead guilty ? dress formal/suit or casual ?
bearing in mind I dont have a rep. But can show proof of my circumstances.
The baby will make the threat of a defaulted payment plan leading to a custodial sentence irrelevant;
But where in the thread is a baby mentioned Dave? I only saw "daughter" which could be any age.
I have no concept of whether the age of a child has any bearing on a case, but in the interests that many new members seem to take note of existing threads before posting their own, is this the case?
Of course I also understand that you may well have spoken to the OP via PM as well, and therefore know the age of the child.
The baby will make the threat of a defaulted payment plan leading to a custodial sentence irrelevant; in fact there a few respects in which bebu's circumstances may make the Prosection walk away from the hearing.
Its far from unknown for a Prosecutor to abandon a Byelaw Prosecution in face of poor prospects of recovery.
The OP asked for the Hull train and was directed to the Hull train, the OP should have asked for the Doncaster train because that is where they were changing trains so wasnt directed to the wrong train.I think the OP needs to appear in court, explain that she showed her ticket to a member of staff and he directed her to the wrong train (if this is true)
S/he does mention that the daughter is 4 in there post at 12:56 today (sat)
In that you did, in a non compulsory ticket area, fail to hand over for inspection a ticket entitling you to travel, when requested to do so by an authorised person, contrary to railway byelaw 18(2)
Monty, while you are correct about the section 18 offence being a civil matter, this has escalated now as he has failed to pay the UFN or keep up the payment plan, this could very quickly turn into a criminal matter, I am not sure at which point non payment becomes a criminal matter but I would assume that now it is going to court (and only payment in full now would prevent that happening) if the court order is not paid then I assume that would be a criminal offence.
Indeed you are right, thanks for pointing that out.
I'm still interested in what effects the age of a child can potentially have on a case though. That is if I understood correctly what Dave said!
I'll be honest - I'd consider them essentials in this day and age. Many jobs are applied for online and employers will expect a typed up CV. Public machines without excessive charge are hard to find (outside educational establishments - and I presume the OP no longer has such access).The OP keeps going on about not being able to afford the "fine" but then goes on about laptops etc, I am sure the court will look on it that as you can afford a laptop (plus a mobile phone etc I assume) you DO have the money to pay but just choose not to.
However, If i was to go to doncaster and defer to another date, it would still cost me money to get to doncaster from hull. If its possible to just plead guilty and bite the bullet ( ie the fine ) its better than deferring it and looking for a solicitor ( forgive my ignorance if am getting it wrong here ) If going to court is the only option, I rather get it over with, as its not the end of life.
The OP needs to be a little more forthcoming with the information contained in the summons and any other correspondence they have had with East Coast prior to that.
Hold on a sec according to your appeal (if I am reading this correctly that is) You were booked on the 14.35 service. Got your tickets out of the machine at 13.48 then boarded the 13.51 service. Can I ask why you did not ask the memeber of staff where the 14.35 service was departing from?
Did you honestly accidently board an earlier train than booked on or did you just want to travel earlier? Sorry if I sound quite sceptical but the railway gets lots of people with advanced tickets who turn up early and then just board the next train whether it is their booked train or not. Honesty is the best thing you can do now.
Passenger focus website is littered with complaints from other passengers who have done the same thing with advanced tickets. Think passengers should be made more aware of the conditions regarding advanced tickets.
If it's any confort at all, a Byelaw 18 offence is a civil matter and not a criminal one, you will not receive a criminal record if found guilty. However I do strongly advise you to seek legal advice, the Citizens Advice Bureau would be a good start, because of your circumstances you may be intitled to legal aid.
There is very little we as a forum can advice further on this matter I am afraid.
Pedants view-
You bought an advance ticket which restricts you to one train, turned up at the station late for the train, didnt bother looking at the departure screens which display all the information you need, asked a bloke "where is the Hull train" despite wanting the xxxx departure to Doncaster, got directed to the Hull train (which you asked for), were issued with an unpaid fares notice because your ticket wasnt valid for that train (correct procedure by the guard), you then didnt pay the UFN, made a payment arrange to clear the debt but didnt pay that either, you are now being taken to court by the rail company for the outstanding money.
Is that about it?
edit-
Monty, while you are correct about the section 18 offence being a civil matter, this has escalated now as he has failed to pay the UFN or keep up the payment plan, this could very quickly turn into a criminal matter, I am not sure at which point non payment becomes a criminal matter but I would assume that now it is going to court (and only payment in full now would prevent that happening) if the court order is not paid then I assume that would be a criminal offence.
would it help if I scanned and uploaded it ???
This is going to read a lot nastier than it is meant to so I apologise in advance, right here goes-
The OP keeps going on about not being able to afford the "fine" but then goes on about laptops etc, I am sure the court will look on it that as you can afford a laptop (plus a mobile phone etc I assume) you DO have the money to pay but just choose not to.
A mobile and laptop are not seen as esentials but paying a fine is.
As for the divorce/ not seeing your little girl, unfortunately not relevant to the case although it is absolutely {deleted} how the (supposed) equal rights go out the window where kids and visitation are concerned, been there done that.
Sorry to sound nasty but this could get really messy if you are not careful and I am sure you could do without this with everything else going on in your life.
I will gather all my documents and prepare for my defense, sadly I cant afford a solicitor and wont be seeking one.
many thanks
B
Discounting everything else, I'd say this would be a massive mistake. Are you not able to apply for Legal Aid? I'd also be having a trip to the Citizens Advice Bureau as well.