Scotrail Franchise - Abellio

[3141]

Though wasn't the chatter just before the TSGN announcement that First had retained the franchise? As always it's probably best just waiting until the announcement is made as anything else is really just speculation!

I remember the rumour back in 2005 (or whenever) that the winner of the Scotrail franchise was going to be Arriva.

 

[overthewater]

About the only rumours about franchise awards I trust are the ones that appear in the Guardian and FT, theyve got very good sources inside the Dft and usually know about a week before the formal announcement :P

Scotrail has nothing to do with the DFT Unless they have ears in Leith I doubt they're any the wiser

 

[Bodiddly]

About the only rumours about franchise awards I trust are the ones that appear in the Guardian and FT, theyve got very good sources inside the Dft and usually know about a week before the formal announcement :P

But do they have equally good sources in Transport Scotland?

 

[Suraggu]

All of it will be officially rumours until it is officially announced by Transport Scotland. But yes we were told sometime in October 2014 would be the official announcement.

Then a few weeks later the DfT should be announcing the East Coast Franchise winner. Although this year has shown interesting results with franchise winners.

 

[Manchester77]

All of it will be officially rumours until it is officially announced by Transport Scotland. But yes we were told sometime in October 2014 would be the official announcement.

Then a few weeks later the DfT should be announcing the East Coast Franchise winner. Although this year has shown interesting results with franchise winners.

Following the ICEC announcement I hope everyone is prepared for the hours on the news of people saying how we're losing out because DOR won't be running it, conveniently ignoring the fact that when IEP is rolled out onto ICEC it will wipe out any premium they pay to the DfT

 

[KX03HZY]

Id say National Express or Abellio for Scotrail, Stagecoach/Virgin or Keolis/Eurostar for ICEC

 

[387star]

It should a week on Monday onwards we should hear something. Has anyone else heard what way the wind is blowing, alot of talk is First has lost it.

Another blow for my staff travel :cry:

 

[pemma]

I wonder if the rumour regarding 158s transferring from Scotrail to TPE will be cleared up when the announcement is made.

 

[Suraggu]

Id say National Express or Abellio for Scotrail, Stagecoach/Virgin or Keolis/Eurostar for ICEC

At this point it could be anyone.

 

[Blindtraveler]

I wonder if the rumour regarding 158s transferring from Scotrail to TPE will be cleared up when the announcement is made.

This is the first I had heard of it, id have thought theyd have more use for 170s

 

[thealexweb]

This is the first I had heard of it, id have thought theyd have more use for 170s

They would but the Scottish Government would never let new stock leave their railways.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I wonder if the rumour regarding 158s transferring from Scotrail to TPE will be cleared up when the announcement is made.

I doubt if there is a "plan" to transfer 158s to TPE.
Each bidder will have different plans for Scotrail stock, and I would have thought only First Group will know enough to perhaps plot a way through the maze by aiming to move stock between FSC and FTPE if they win.
Nobody else will have the knowledge, or even desire, and Transport Scotland won't be interested in what happens to any non-retained stock.
It will probably have to wait until the dominos fall after the announcement.
There's very little scope anyway until EGIP gets more wires and new EMUs are delivered.

 

[backontrack]

Id say National Express or Abellio for Scotrail

More people coming out for independence too late then.

 

[thealexweb]

I doubt if there is a "plan" to transfer 158s to TPE.
Each bidder will have different plans for Scotrail stock, and I would have thought only First Group will know enough to perhaps plot a way through the maze by aiming to move stock between FSC and FTPE if they win.
Nobody else will have the knowledge, or even desire, and Transport Scotland won't be interested in what happens to any non-retained stock.
It will probably have to wait until the dominos fall after the announcement.
There's very little scope anyway until EGIP gets more wires and new EMUs are delivered.

I disagree that Scotrail has no stock to spare. When the 380s were first delivered Scotrail was supposed to release some of their Class 318s, instead they were kept and underused for years. Now their Class 318s are being properly used around Motherwell thanks to recent electrification and this has lead to the displaced Class 156s being surplus to requirements. They are currently being used for one off-jobs like strengthening rural services during roadworks and helping with the Ryder's Cup but beyond that they are not needed. This combined with reinstating the second loco-hauled Fife circle diagram could easily free up five DMUs at a starting point.

 

[pemma]

I doubt if there is a "plan" to transfer 158s to TPE.
Each bidder will have different plans for Scotrail stock, and I would have thought only First Group will know enough to perhaps plot a way through the maze by aiming to move stock between FSC and FTPE if they win.
Nobody else will have the knowledge, or even desire, and Transport Scotland won't be interested in what happens to any non-retained stock.
It will probably have to wait until the dominos fall after the announcement.
There's very little scope anyway until EGIP gets more wires and new EMUs are delivered.

If you recall 8 of the 158s at Scotrail were actually intended for Northern Rail and while Scotrail have refurbished most of their 158s, those 8 remain untouched suggesting their long-term future at Scotrail hadn't been guaranteed.

It seems someone at DfT leaked that 8 x 158s from Northern will transfer to TPE, despite no negotiations with Northern and Northern having a guarantee in their Direct Award agreement that they will get 14 x 319s as additional capacity and won't lose any DMUs without getting replacement stock.

I suspect DfT were trying to cover something up - but what exactly? Maybe that Scotrail may lose trains at the time of a Scottish Independence referendum?

 

[170401]

If you recall 8 of the 158s at Scotrail were actually intended for Northern Rail and while Scotrail have refurbished most of their 158s, those 8 remain untouched suggesting their long-term future at Scotrail hadn't been guaranteed.

Interestingly enough these 8 also appear to have been left out of the Wifi program with all (I think) except these 8 now having it fitted. Seems to be pretty good too, vast improvement on that fitted to the 170 stock

 

[3141]

It seems someone at DfT leaked that 8 x 158s from Northern will transfer to TPE, despite no negotiations with Northern and Northern having a guarantee in their Direct Award agreement that they will get 14 x 319s as additional capacity and won't lose any DMUs without getting replacement stock.

I suspect DfT were trying to cover something up - but what exactly? Maybe that Scotrail may lose trains at the time of a Scottish Independence referendum?

Why would DfT leak something if they were trying to cover something up?

 

[pemma]

Why would DfT leak something if they were trying to cover something up?

Leak something which could be misinterpreted to try to stop people jumping to a logical conclusion about something else?

 

[3141]

Leak something which could be misinterpreted to try to stop people jumping to a logical conclusion about something else?

Maybe, but if DfT leaked that Northern were going to lose eight trains and people in the Northern areas believed it there'd be another protest like the one when it was reported that FTPE were going to lose their class 170s to Chiltern.

And there are enough people with some knowledge about things, like those on this forum, who might say that the operator with stock to spare was Scotrail, so they should lose some trains instead.

The best way to cover something up is not to start talking about it, or anything related to it.

An alternative interpretation, which will appeal to some on here, is that the DfT isn't competent enough to realise that.

Anyway, when the winner of the Scotrail franchise is announced, we'll probably all be surprised by who it is and the details of what they're going to do.

 

[pemma]

Maybe, but if DfT leaked that Northern were going to lose eight trains and people in the Northern areas believed it there'd be another protest like the one when it was reported that FTPE were going to lose their class 170s to Chiltern.

Someone leaked something to BBC News. The day after North West Tonight reported 9 x TPE 170s going to Chiltern, they did a report on a proposed solution being Northern lose 8 x 158s to TPE. The former has been confirmed by Chiltern, TPE, Porterbrook and DfT, the latter has been confirmed by no-one but has been mentioned by Labour MPs in parliament with the Conservative MPs just going on about electrification in response, so they aren't confirming or denying it.

 

[thealexweb]

Quite unexpected. I thought all the buzz had been around National Express. As someone who lives in Edinburgh I am tempted to go to the announcement. Does anyone know what time it will be at?

DUTCH rail firm Abellio is expected to be named tomorrow as winner of the next £2.5 billion ScotRail franchise, industry sources have told The Scotsman.

The offshoot of Dutch national railways will take over the Scottish Government’s biggest contract to run most of the country’s trains for ten years from next April.

Current operator FirstGroup had been among five shortlisted bidders, along with National Express, Arriva and Hong Kong operator MTR.

Abellio operates three rail franchises in England, including Merseyrail and Northern Rail, which it jointly runs with Serco, which will run the Caledonian Sleeper - also from April.

One source said: “It’s 100 per cent Abellio”.


Another said: “They have been out and about with an air of confidence. All the talk has been about them.”

The firm have been the most mentioned of the five bidders in industry circles pretty much since the shortlist was announced last November.

Abellio was also the first to announce its interest in the franchise a year earlier, when UK managing director Dominic Booth said its experience and “enormous pool of expertise” well positioned it to run the franchise.

He added: “Northern Rail in particular shares many of the characteristics of the ScotRail service.”


Rail boom

ScotRail has seen a boom in rail travel since the current franchise started ten years ago, with passenger numbers increasing by one third to 87 million in the year to March.

This is expected to continue to grow with further rail expansion, such as the re-opening of the Borders line next September, and longer and faster trains on the main Edinburgh-Glasgow route from 2016-19.

The Scottish Government’s Transport Scotland agency would say only that transport minister Keith Brown will make a “major transport announcement” at Waverley Station in Edinburgh tomorrow morning.

Source: http://www.scotsman.com/news/transport/first-lose-scotrail-franchise-to-dutch-firm-abellio-1-3565659

 

[Blindtraveler]

The Scotsmans website and Facebook page reporting tonight that Abellio are expected to be announced tomorrow as the winners. If so, Im happy as if First, who have by and large done a decent job with it didnt retain it I'd want MTR or Abellio.↲

 

[thealexweb]

How much of the franchise detail will be revealed tomorrow at Edinburgh Waverley? Does anyone know what time the announcement is at.

 

[overthewater]

I did say Abellio had a good chance of winning

 

[thealexweb]

I did say Abellio had a good chance of winning

Serco Sleeper and Abellio Scotrail... Northern Rail has come to the north XD

 

[GaryMcEwan]

BBC News has also put out a report stating that First are set to lose Scotrail, and the BBC understand from 'Industry Sources' that it's Abellio that's won the franchise...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-29531099

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

If true, at least the SNP can say the winner is not "English".
But (again, if true) a bad loss for FirstGroup following on from FCC, and another bid failure by Arriva.
DB will be cross.

Edit:
The BBC now has it: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-29531099

Industry sources have told BBC Scotland that First Group is set to lose the franchise to operate ScotRail services

 

[kevconnor]

Quite unexpected. I thought all the buzz had been around National Express. As someone who lives in Edinburgh I am tempted to go to the announcement. Does anyone know what time it will be at?



Source: http://www.scotsman.com/news/transport/first-lose-scotrail-franchise-to-dutch-firm-abellio-1-3565659

If true, and given the quotes about expertise with Northern one could see there being a detrimental impact on Northern with a drain on experienced senior management being poached from Northern to head up Scotrail from early next year.

 

[TUC]

'Northern Rail in particular shares many of the characteristics of the ScotRail service'-except that one current company is competent and the other isn't. Poor Scotrail ...

 

[Blindtraveler]

The Serco/Abellio tyup makes sense for the continued happy working of the sleapers if nothing else.