Class 88 UKDual & EuroDual

[Sunbird24]

Using the formulae here - http://www.republiclocomotive.com/tractive_effort_and_power_calculations.html - and waving a wet finger about to estimate 'power at the wheels', I reckon that an 88 on diesel could manage maximum tractive effort (317kN) up to about 4-5 mph, then TE falls off as speed increases as per the normal 'constant power' curve. As 950 hp is 'heavy shunter' power level i.e. what you might use to shove a whole train over a yard hump, that feels about right.

So yes, it could climb Shap with a heavy train on diesel, but slowly...but that is still better than not moving at all in the event of overhead power loss.

Looking at the ratings the diesel output is only a little more than that required by one traction motor, so would the whole supply be fed to a single axle or shared equally between two or more, and if so is this controlled by the driver or is it automatic?
Either way it might climb Shap on a good day but when its wet n windy it might need a push from a banker.
Are bankers still held as spares at Tebay/Shap/Carlisle, I notice one 68 is diagrammed to run to Shap every morning and return in the evening, is that part of such a service?

 

[apk55]

Looking at the ratings the diesel output is only a little more than that required by one traction motor, so would the whole supply be fed to a single axle or shared equally between two or more, and if so is this controlled by the driver or is it automatic?
Either way it might climb Shap on a good day but when its wet n windy it might need a push from a banker.
Are bankers still held as spares at Tebay/Shap/Carlisle, I notice one 68 is diagrammed to run to Shap every morning and return in the evening, is that part of such a service?

On a locomotive (and multiple unit) it is usual to run all motors at the same tractive effort. A motor can only deliver its rated power at high speed and at low speed tractive effort limits output. If the locomotive can start a train on electric it could also start the same train with diesel.

 

[Bucina62]

Hi, I'll be in Czechia from 4th to 11th August and Velim is just over an hours drive from our house over there. Will the/a 88 be over there for me to go and try to get a look at it?

If nothing else now I've got back in to trains after a 30 year gap I now have an excuse not to have to go to see the Mother in Law every day while we are there LOL

I have now bought the Platform 5 Czeck/Slovak book so will do some general spotting over there from now on, so I guess it will be off to Ceska Trebova, Vrsovice and the local depot Kralupy nad Vltavou for me

 

[Sunbird24]

Hi, I'll be in Czechia from 4th to 11th August and Velim is just over an hours drive from our house over there. Will the/a 88 be over there for me to go and try to get a look at it?

If nothing else now I've got back in to trains after a 30 year gap I now have an excuse not to have to go to see the Mother in Law every day while we are there LOL

I have now bought the Platform 5 Czeck/Slovak book so will do some general spotting over there from now on, so I guess it will be off to Ceska Trebova, Vrsovice and the local depot Kralupy nad Vltavou for me

They usually spend several months there (3-6) so who knows. Testing started in April so could be finished by July or go on until October.
I think there should be several of the other 88s in UK by end of July, I hope to check progress next week. I think they are being held at the factory pending the results from Velim.
88001 is NOT on any books yet, Railcolor has the items written up for 2016 but the date fields are still blank. It is still owned by Stadler until testing has completed and it has been returned to the factory for removal of the testing equipment and restoration to "as new" condition. It is likely to be among the last ones delivered, just as 68001 was.

 

[ac6000cw]

Looking at the ratings the diesel output is only a little more than that required by one traction motor, so would the whole supply be fed to a single axle or shared equally between two or more, and if so is this controlled by the driver or is it automatic?

99.9% certain the diesel power will feed into the 'common bus' stage of the traction equipment, so is available to feed all motors (I can't see that you would want to do anything else). BTW, the 88 is rated at 4 MW (5400 hp) in electric mode, so 1 MW per motor (versus 710 kW of diesel power, minus the power used to drive the auxiliaries).

Either way it might climb Shap on a good day but when its wet n windy it might need a push from a banker.
Are bankers still held as spares at Tebay/Shap/Carlisle, I notice one 68 is diagrammed to run to Shap every morning and return in the evening, is that part of such a service?

I think the only vaguely regular mainline banking duty in the UK is up the Lickey Incline, and that is on an 'as needed' basis with locos sent over from the Birmingham area - they are not stationed at Bromsgrove full-time. The steepest part of Shap is only a 1.4% gradient - not really that steep in relation to modern motive power capabilities.

I think there is still an active rail-served quarry at Shap, so maybe the 68 turn is related to that ?

 

[Sunbird24]

BTW, the 88 is rated at 4 MW (5400 hp) in electric mode, so 1 MW per motor (versus 710 kW of diesel power, minus the power used to drive the auxiliaries).

Supposedly the same bogie as class 68 with four ABB 4FRA6063 (600 kW) traction motors but I imagine something with a bit more power will be required.

I think the only vaguely regular mainline banking duty in the UK is up the Lickey Incline, and that is on an 'as needed' basis with locos sent over from the Birmingham area - they are not stationed at Bromsgrove full-time. The steepest part of Shap is only a 1.4% gradient - not really that steep in relation to modern motive power capabilities.

We were discussing its operation on diesel only if there was an unlikely failure of the electrical supply. Presumably testing will define a limit for it to take over specified gradients when only on diesel power.

I think there is still an active rail-served quarry at Shap, so maybe the 68 turn is related to that ?

There are 2 Hanson facilities north of Shap not rail connected and a rail-served Cemex quarry on the down side well south of Shap.
Just south of Shap on the up side there is a rail served facility but it is closed: Published on 20 Sep 2012
Hardendale Quarry or Shapfell Limestone Quarry was originally owned by British Steel before becoming part of Corus Group the Anglo Dutch steel maker. The quarry has not been excavated for a number of years, due to concerns that it's sheer depth and size was having an impact upon the local water table.

 

[Sunbird24]

Latest news is that 88001 was in Kassel on 4th July on its way to Aachen. No news yet on whether it will go back to Valencia or direct to UK. Still no further sightings of 88002/3, last seen 2 months ago, but they could be hidden behind all the new Euro 4000s which have appeared.
Update, it has been announced that a class 88 will be present at the Innotrans trade fair in Berlin in September.
All information from here: www.mainlinediesels.net/index.php?nav=1000001&lang=en#.V30KNLh96Un

 

[Harbornite]

In just over two months, the Innotrans trade fair in Berlin will open its doors again. Stadler Rail will be present with a UK DUAL locomotive for Beacon Rail / DRS, better known as Class 88. Other Stadler rolling stock on display will be the EC250 EMU for SBB, a Flirt EMU for NS, a sleeping coach for Azerbaijan, a CityLink tram-train for Chemnitz and a Variobahn tram for Aarhus

www.railcolor.net/index.php?nav=1405330&id=9048&action=dview

 

[59CosG95]

Any further news on whether any more 88s have shown face? They're going to have to come out soon if DRS want one at Grest Bridge for the Open Day on the 23rd...

 

[Harbornite]

Any further news on whether any more 88s have shown face? They're going to have to come out soon if DRS want one at Grest Bridge for the Open Day on the 23rd...

According to the railway mag, there were doubts about 88001 attending, but 88002 might.

 

[Sunbird24]

88001 was last reported in Kassel, heading for Aachen, a week ago. It is not clear if it is going to UK, back to Valencia or on to Berlin for Innotrans where one is expected in September.
88002 is almost finished and in DRS compass livery but was still being worked on today so is unlikely to get to Crewe in just 10 days, though it could make it to Berlin in time for Innotrans.
All the rest are still in various stages of construction.

 

[159220]

88002 is almost finished and in DRS compass livery but was still being worked on today so is unlikely to get to Crewe in just 10 days, though it could make it to Berlin in time for Innotrans.
All the rest are still in various stages of construction.

Thanks for the information, always a good source of fact. Would you happen to have taken a photo of 88002. I would be interested to see whether the Compass livery is identical to the 68s or there is an 'electric/progressive' feel to it.

 

[Sunbird24]

I do have photos but they cannot be posted here, I an travelling at the moment. The livery has been modifed with an overlay of red and blue diagonal lines, the red being at the cab ends.

 

[159220]

Sounds intriguing, no doubt all shall be reveled soon.

 

[59CosG95]

Any further news on 88002 at Valencia, or 88001 somewhere in Germany?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
http://www.directrailservices.com/news-articles/2016/07/28/class-88-locomotive/ Seems DRS have now made it official.

 

[Harbornite]

Any further news on 88002 at Valencia, or 88001 somewhere in Germany?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
http://www.directrailservices.com/news-articles/2016/07/28/class-88-locomotive/ Seems DRS have now made it official.

I'm not sure what I think of the red details, but it's a bit of variety so why not!

 

[59CosG95]

Any further news? Or is it that period of time where the good men and women of Albuixech have their annual leave (which may explain why the front here's remarkably quiet)

 

[Harbornite]

Things are quiet, even Mainlinediesels.net hasn't been updated since the 29th July. Turns out I didn't share the article from that site so here it is...

Direct Rail Services has released an image showing the livery of the brand new 88002. The colour scheme of the Class 88s will be largely the same as that applied to the operator's Class 68 locomotives, but additionally sports red and blue grid of lines (MLD: reminding us of overhead power lines).

DRS states on its website: "Testing of 88001 in Velim has concluded, reporting on the testing Stadler said: “During UKDual test campaign in Velim, two main goals have been covered. First, we have focused to perform all test related to homologation purposes by using the capabilities of Velim test center (TSI track, catenary characteristics, braking distances.). As second goal, we have tested and adjusted locomotive performances as traction control in different conditions, diesel engine and electrical power management, by hauling a train of 1500Tons and an ER20 locomotive.

As our first dual locomotive, new functionalities of control software have been validated as dynamic mode changing between electrical operation to diesel operation (and viceversa) and fine tuning of automatic speed control.

Finally, Velim test site has been used as first scenario to show to DRS the behavior of the locomotive and let to our customer to feedback us with the first impressions about UKDual locomotive."

DRS also commented about the InnoTrans trade fair in Berlin in September where Stadler and DRS will present a Class 88 locomotive. We now know that the locomotive in question will be 88003.

http://mainlinediesels.net/index.php?nav=1000001&lang=en&id=9117&action=shownews#.V7hPiZgrLIU

 

[Sunbird24]

Any further news? Or is it that period of time where the good men and women of Albuixech have their annual leave (which may explain why the front here's remarkably quiet)

You've hit the nail on the head, it's the August holiday at Albuixech. Contractors are working in the traverser area so nothing can move! All that can be seen are 4 tram sets (one for Sheffield - No 6), 4 Prasa Duals (including numbers 3 & 4), one class 88 (barely visible - unidentified) and several AFRO 4000s (including 4019 & 4020). Work starts again in earnest in September!
88001 is likely back at the factory but has not been seen/reported anywhere yet since leaving Velim. 88002 & 88003 have not been seen for a few weeks but could be tucked away inside somewhere, or hidden behind the Prasa Duals.

 

[59CosG95]

You've hit the nail on the head, it's the August holiday at Albuixech. Contractors are working in the traverser area so nothing can move! All that can be seen are 4 tram sets (one for Sheffield - No 6), 4 Prasa Duals (including numbers 3 & 4), one class 88 (barely visible - unidentified) and several AFRO 4000s (including 4019 & 4020). Work starts again in earnest in September!
88001 is likely back at the factory but has not been seen/reported anywhere yet since leaving Velim. 88002 & 88003 have not been seen for a few weeks but could be tucked away inside somewhere, or hidden behind the Prasa Duals.

Ah, I had an inkling it was holibobs at Stadler! When does work recommence?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
88002 has reportedly left the factory, and is due to dock by the end of the month; though don't hold me to that!

 

[Sunbird24]

Ah, I had an inkling it was holibobs at Stadler! When does work recommence?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
88002 has reportedly left the factory, and is due to dock by the end of the month; though don't hold me to that!

Quote from another forum:
Reported on wnxx that 88002 will be in the UK for the upcoming open day at Gresty Bridge depot on July 23rd.

Just don't believe everything you read, see or hear, it doesn't always happen!

 

[BR60062]

Nice to see a new locomotive coming to the UK .

 

[59CosG95]

Quote from another forum:
Reported on wnxx that 88002 will be in the UK for the upcoming open day at Gresty Bridge depot on July 23rd.

Just don't believe everything you read, see or hear, it doesn't always happen!

I've grown cynical as a result of that!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Checking the shipping movements for Southampton (http://www.southamptonvts.co.uk/liv...s_and_cruise_ship_schedule/planned_movements/), I've deduced that the Grande Spagna (https://www.vesselfinder.com/vessels/GRANDE-SPAGNA-IMO-9227924-MMSI-247056200) may have 88002 on board. While it may currently be in Bremerhaven, its last port of call was Valencia (hence the 88 suspicion), and I have an inkling that 88001 may well have been loaded at Bremerhaven, before both journey to Southampton. Of course, I could be completely wrong!!

 

[Sunbird24]

I've grown cynical as a result of that!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Checking the shipping movements for Southampton (http://www.southamptonvts.co.uk/liv...s_and_cruise_ship_schedule/planned_movements/), I've deduced that the Grande Spagna (https://www.vesselfinder.com/vessels/GRANDE-SPAGNA-IMO-9227924-MMSI-247056200) may have 88002 on board. While it may currently be in Bremerhaven, its last port of call was Valencia (hence the 88 suspicion), and I have an inkling that 88001 may well have been loaded at Bremerhaven, before both journey to Southampton. Of course, I could be completely wrong!!

The Grande Spagna is a ro/ro vehicle carrier with end doors like a car ferry, normally used for the shipping of new cars and vans, has no facilities for loading/unloading the likes of railway locomotives which require large cranes and a top loading area for the holds, so highly unlikely IMO.
Anything is possible, but since 88001 was expected back at the factory to have all the testing equipment removed and be restored to as new condition that is unlikely. Nothing has moved in Valencia since early August when the factory closed so anything leaving there is likely to have been shipped out in July and the journey is usually less than a week.
Most shipments from Valencia recently have been from Sagunto port, not Valencia port, though they could also be shipped out by rail, as is done with all the standard gauge locos for Europe (by road to Barcelona, then by rail).
88003 will ship to Berlin next month, I expect the factory to reopen tomorrow as normal.

 

[MikePJ]

The Grande Spagna is a ro/ro vehicle carrier with end doors like a car ferry, normally used for the shipping of new cars and vans, has no facilities for loading/unloading the likes of railway locomotives which require large cranes and a top loading area for the holds, so highly unlikely IMO.

Ro-ro ships have been used to move MU stock like the new Class 800s - here's a pic of one being unloaded. http://www.railtechnologymagazine.com/Inbox/first-class-800-train-for-iep-lands-in-uk/100627

If the 88 is on a low loader type trailer, that might well work. The 66s and 68s were unloaded with overhead cranes, but that may just be a reflection of the type of ship that was available at the time.

 

[Sunbird24]

If the 88 is on a low loader type trailer, that might well work. The 66s and 68s were unloaded with overhead cranes, but that may just be a reflection of the type of ship that was available at the time.

An 80+ton locomotive needs a very heavy duty trailer and I don't believe the owners of these are willing to see one tied up for a couple of weeks or more on a ship when they are needed to move locos between the factory and ports or railheads at the rate of 2 a week.
DMU/EMU vehicles are closer to 40-45 tons each and as can be seen in the picture can be moved on and off ships with relatively small light weight trollies.

 

[hwl]

An 80+ton locomotive needs a very heavy duty trailer and I don't believe the owners of these are willing to see one tied up for a couple of weeks or more on a ship when they are needed to move locos between the factory and ports or railheads at the rate of 2 a week.
DMU/EMU vehicles are closer to 40-45 tons each and as can be seen in the picture can be moved on and off ships with relatively small light weight trollies.

Didn't some of the later 70s come off the ships on trailers (after one got dropped by a crane)?

 

[RobShipway]

Didn't some of the later 70s come off the ships on trailers (after one got dropped by a crane)?

I thought that most of the deliveries for the class 70 where done by the ship BELUGA ENDURANCE which as per https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oX-JSEvPtSA has a crane to lift the loco on to the ship.

However, as has been pointed class 800 coaches where delivered via a ro/ro ship as per https://az751620.vo.msecnd.net/site...x/public/Hitachi_featurebox.jpg?itok=qNMUdZLE

 

[Sunbird24]

However, as has been pointed class 800 coaches where delivered via a ro/ro ship as per https://az751620.vo.msecnd.net/site...x/public/Hitachi_featurebox.jpg?itok=qNMUdZLE

My understanding is that the bogies of the class 800 are shipped separately with the bodies mounted on small carrying trucks for moving on and off the ship. My source stated that the the bodyshells were reunited with their bogies at Asfordby. Not seen any pictures of them in transit yet, how did they get from Southampton to Asfordby?

Back to the 88s, no sign of any outside at Valencia, just a sea of South African blue and a red French loco plus several trams. Speculation on their whereabouts will have to continue a while longer.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Picture here shows an 800 unit with bogies attached being lifted from the carrying cradle which it was transported on: http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-31831603

Back to the 88s, no sign of any outside at Valencia, just a sea of South African blue locos and a red French loco plus several trams. Speculation on their whereabouts will have to continue a while longer.

Another video here showing the mini trailers they were transported on. There is one mini-trailer under each bogie. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSi4JoenVAo#t=35

 

[RobShipway]

My understanding is that the bogies of the class 800 are shipped separately with the bodies mounted on small carrying trucks for moving on and off the ship. My source stated that the the bodyshells were reunited with their bogies at Asfordby. Not seen any pictures of them in transit yet, how did they get from Southampton to Asfordby?

Back to the 88s, no sign of any outside at Valencia, just a sea of South African blue and a red French loco plus several trams. Speculation on their whereabouts will have to continue a while longer.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Picture here shows an 800 unit with bogies attached being lifted from the carrying cradle which it was transported on: http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-31831603

Back to the 88s, no sign of any outside at Valencia, just a sea of South African blue locos and a red French loco plus several trams. Speculation on their whereabouts will have to continue a while longer.

Another video here showing the mini trailers they were transported on. There is one mini-trailer under each bogie. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSi4JoenVAo#t=35

They got from Southampton to Ashfordby by each carriage being trucked on the back of a low loader lorry.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBf7B_MVFKU